Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
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| reply to dosbubba
Re: As was discussed earlier...
said by dosbubba  :
said by Nightfall :
To be honest, I dislike the pirates as well and would like to see something be done down the road to fix the piracy problem. Not allowing patches isn't the way to go.
By not (if it was actually possible) allowing pirates, many of the users would switch to a free Unix-like operating system rather than pay for Windows. Allowing pirates lets Windows better compete with Linux and *BSD.
If Linux could run every application that Windows could run, I might agree with your statement. The fact of the matter is that *nix is an entirely different ball of wax than Windows. Not allowing pirates to upgrade wouldn't result in a huge move over to *nix. At least until *nix could run EVERYTHING that windows can run.
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loserhead
3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA
| Linux can do everything that windows can do. the applications have different names, but the same functions.
5 years from now, when major linux desktop operating systems are the norm, people will be saying what YOU said about the next generation of operating systems. IMHO
--AA--
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| I could fill this entire page with software that doesn't run on *nix platforms.
And 5 years from now, linux will not be the norm. It hasn't been and it never will be. 5 years ago people like you said the same thing and it didn't come true then and it won't come true now.
Entirely because of my first statement.
Supporting an operating system is one thing. Spreading FUD about it because of your undying blind support is another.
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dosbubba
join:2002-01-26
Eustis, FL
| said by Wills :
I could fill this entire page with software that doesn't run on *nix platforms.
He didn't say that any program that can run on Windows can run on *nix. He said there are equivalent programs under different names.
said by Wills :
Supporting an operating system is one thing. Spreading FUD about it because of your undying blind support is another.
What part of "dontshare"'s statements was FUD about Linux? |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
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| reply to Wills
said by Wills :
I could fill this entire page with software that doesn't run on *nix platforms.
And 5 years from now, linux will not be the norm. It hasn't been and it never will be. 5 years ago people like you said the same thing and it didn't come true then and it won't come true now.
Entirely because of my first statement.
Supporting an operating system is one thing. Spreading FUD about it because of your undying blind support is another.
I agree and you are correct.
Don't get me wrong, *nix is a great OS. I have been running it since 1996, but all I really do with it is play around. I understand its advantages and limitations. I am also experienced enough to know they are not the same. I can't believe the FUD the previous user posted...on second thought....I would expect that from a *nix worshiper.
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Da22in
Buck Fush
join:2002-06-10
Charlotte, NC
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| reply to loserhead
said by loserhead :
Linux can do everything that windows can do. the applications have different names, but the same functions.
5 years from now, when major linux desktop operating systems are the norm, people will be saying what YOU said about the next generation of operating systems. IMHO
--AA--
Linux cannot do everything that Windows can do. Mainstream Linux OS's that compete with Windows are much further than 5 years away...sorry. There are many hurdles....like the technical level of the average user, software compatibility issues, and general acceptance by the public - to name a few. *nix has it's place in the computer world, a single-digit percentage of marketshare. Even Apple will take over before Linux, and figure the odds of that taking place.
Good Luck though! 
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Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
| reply to loserhead
said by loserhead :
Linux can do everything that windows can do. the applications have different names, but the same functions.
Yeah, maybe if you're talking about a calculator app. Once you get into more complex applications, the tripe thrown together by a bunch of hobbyists on Linux can't hold a candle to the extremely polished and mature software available for Windows. |
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cdrworm
join:2002-08-09
San Diego, CA
| reply to loserhead
In the next few years linux will be able to run 95% of Windows apps with CrossOver Office (a commercial version of WINE).
Right now CrossOver runs a majority of popular Windows apps natively under Linux at the same performance as if not better.
I do however get better network performance under Linux and IE does run really smooth.
We have grown dependent on Windows. Thats why we continue to say we need Windows apps. There are plenty of open source apps that are alternatives to proprietary software that are pretty good, ie. OpenOffice.org an alternative to Ms Office minus the $500 price tag. Not only works on Windows and Linux but many OSes.
Microsoft has something to worry about now. It now has more competition. Linux now has more desktop market share than Mac, and the Tech industry and major players are moving towards it. It can get ugly for MS because it's the Tech Industry vs Microsoft. It will be free vs proprietary, when we say "free" it's not in terms of price. But Free as in Freedom and not as much as free as in Freeware.
Linux wont go away. It's being embraced by big business because of its lower cost. Microsoft's FUD will continue, it's great viral mind control, but until we zombies wake up will will believe whatever the big dogs say. The truth will set you free. |
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Mustard Tongue
@verizon.net
| "In the next few years linux will be able to run 95% of Windows apps with CrossOver Office (a commercial version of WINE)."
Too bad that their are literaly hundreds of thousands of programs out there for windows. The most common applications are office, IE, music players, adobe programs, winzip, aol/msn messengers, antivirus, firewall, and there are more. Aside from that, most people have a few programs that aren't well known. Take for example filehound. I bet most of you don't use this, but I use it because it's one of the best damn downloading programs out there. I've been using it since I had a 14.4k connection, and even now with broadband I use it. I bet it doesn't run on *nix.
And talk about driver compatibility. Good luck finding hardware manufacturers that make *nix drivers. There only happens to be 50 different versions of linux, whereas windows has 98, ME, 2000, and XP and apple has os 8, 9 and 10.
My point is, the problem with a free world is that there are too many different distributions. As soon as you add considerable price, the little guys run away, and you are left with a few solid players.
*nix has a great presence in the server market, but it's going to be a long time before it is accepted in the home, and on workstations, especially since support is on a pay $100 or more basis. |
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woodward
XMission Broadband
VIP
join:2000-12-28
Salt Lake City, UT
1 edit | said by Mustard Tongue:
Too bad that their are literaly hundreds of thousands of programs out there for windows. The most common applications are office, IE, music players, adobe programs, winzip, aol/msn messengers, antivirus, firewall, and there are more.
I'm not going to jump into the tired OS flame war, but it really needs to be pointed out that this is a remarkably spurious argument, and one that leans towards ignorance.
There is just as much software for *nix as there is for Windows. The difference is that *nix software is open sourced, and thus *free* and available for download off the internet. Yes, there is certainly free software out there for Windows as well, but its an increasingly shrinking selection, where as the open source movement grows every day by its very definition.
To use your examples, in reverse, Linux has Open Office, multiple browsers (some superior to the old IE), adobe clones (and Adobe supports linux), zip is built in (along with multiple other compression standards), antivirus is not needed, a very robust firewall is built in, etc etc etc.
Saying things like "Linux must suck because it can't run WinZip" is like saying Dodge sucks because you can't install a Ford head gasket. And whats more, the truth is that Linux is significantly more flexible and scalable than other mainstream OSes. That's just a fact, as anyone who runs Linux knows.
Look you can like Windows or like Linux, or BSD, or Mac OS, or whatever. But when criticising the alternative, know what you're talking about. As is, you're just spreading disinformation.
(edit for ps)
ps. Expensive support? You haven't called Microsoft for support lately, have you?  |
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tcp1
Premium
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Herndon, VA
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| reply to loserhead
dontshare, you're clearly new to this. Linux groupies have been saying this for 10 years.
Linux will NOT be predominant on the desktop in five years. I will bet you large sums of money on that.
Also, Linux can NOT do everything that can be done on windows.
Please don't tell me that GIMP is a photoshop replacement. GIMP is a sorry excuse for an attempt at a photoshop-type program.
Multimedia is still very lacking on Linux; the most recent non-linear editing program for Linux hasn't been updated for four years.
I can go on and on, this is the typical crap war that starts.. but what you're saying just isn't true, or else Linux would already be the leader.
And don't tell me Linux doesn't have its own share of technical caveats. Do you really think the average Joe User is going to be figuring out RPM dependencies and compiling kernels? Please. Enough of this.
Pirate-proofing Windows XP will do NOTHING to move people over Linux. Your point is invalid. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
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| reply to cdrworm
said by cdrworm :
Linux wont go away. It's being embraced by big business because of its lower cost. Microsoft's FUD will continue, it's great viral mind control, but until we zombies wake up will will believe whatever the big dogs say. The truth will set you free.
Here's what the big boys who like to tell you linux doesn't cost as much to run , don't want want you to see. Linux is free. Where companies like IBM make their money is in supporting the Os and it's apps.
What they fail to also tell you is a very good *nix admin is worth his or her weight in gold. And it costs a pretty penny to hire these guys and gals. Also it costs a considerable amount to retain that person. The companies who rely on IBM for service pay for it greatly. When a competent *nix admin is hired on they often have a huge load on their shoulders that some of them can't really take. This is when companies get heaved and have to pay even more then they expected.
I have done my share of work in both environments. And I can tell you I am not even as good or close to as good as some of the *nix admins in this world and I get paid very well for my *nix knowledge.
The corporate suits who want to sell you that linux is the next greatest thing forget to look at the future they only look at bottom line on that day. Which is not the way a business should be run if you want a long term business model.
When it comes to windows you pay up front and if there is a virus/worm/crash , which linux will start seeing in the future , you lose a small income if your affected. But finding another windows admin is easy. Search monster.com and see for yourself.
Windows can claim to save money in the long run , where *nix really can't , unless the company has no issues and IBM at it's beckon call. With all the lawsuits surrounding *nix now it's just not really worth it for the companies to transfer to *nix yet for a desktop solution.
It really depends on where your goals are set for your business and if their needs are met by a *nix environment. Each OS has its foot hold and they will battle it out. 5 years I highly doubt it.
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dosbubba
join:2002-01-26
Eustis, FL
| reply to tcp1
said by tcp1 :
Pirate-proofing Windows XP will do NOTHING to move people over Linux. Your point is invalid.
The point isn't invalid. I moved to Linux from XP because of being annoyed with product activation. |
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version3D
Infidels Won
join:2004-07-24
Deep River, CT
| reply to Da22in
quote:
There are many hurdles....like the technical level of the average user, software compatibility issues, and general acceptance by the public - to name a few.
That's because stupid people can't run Linux. I say we force people to learn how to manually install Slackware using a text-based installation before they're "licensed" to use a computer (something else I think we need a law for). Maybe then all these "I think I know what I'm doing but I really don't" computer users out there (which is around 80% or more) wouldn't be on the 'net spreading viruses and spam. |
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version3D
Infidels Won
join:2004-07-24
Deep River, CT | reply to Jeremy341
Gee, hmmm... virtually every application I've ever emulated through wine on Linux worked flawlessly. Wine = Windows Emulator. It's been around for years. Learn about what you're talking about before you pretend to know that you do. |
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version3D
Infidels Won
join:2004-07-24
Deep River, CT
| reply to tcp1
quote:
And don't tell me Linux doesn't have its own share of technical caveats. Do you really think the average Joe User is going to be figuring out RPM dependencies and compiling kernels? Please. Enough of this.
Maybe the average Joe User should get his act together and actually learn how a computer works then. This is exactly the problem Microsoft has created: trying to bring "idiot proof" access to computers to the general public when they should have done the opposite and actually made it "idiot proof" like Linux is. |
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Jeremy341
Bye
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| reply to version3D
said by version3D :
virtually every application I've ever emulated through wine on Linux worked flawlessly. Wine = Windows Emulator. It's been around for years. Learn about what you're talking about before you pretend to know that you do.
Why waste time messing around with emulation when I can run the top programs natively on the top OS in the world?
Don't talk down to me. I've used Linux before. I think it sucks. I see absolutely no reason why I should have to take extra steps and make my life harder just so I can use some crappy OS that "isn't made by M$".
I'm not a rabid anti-Microsoft zealot, so I don't feel any desire to use a second-rate OS just because it's not made by them. |
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flexy123
join:2004-02-02
| reply to loserhead
said by loserhead :
Linux can do everything that windows can do. the applications have different names, but the same functions.
5 years from now, when major linux desktop operating systems are the norm, people will be saying what YOU said about the next generation of operating systems. IMHO
--AA--
Linux is such an OLD OS...my God....why should it have its big success 'in 5 years' ? |
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flexy123
join:2004-02-02
| reply to Jeremy341
said by Jeremy341 :
Don't talk down to me. I've used Linux before. I think it sucks. I see absolutely no reason why I should have to take extra steps and make my life harder just so I can use some crappy OS that "isn't made by M$".
I'm not a rabid anti-Microsoft zealot, so I don't feel any desire to use a second-rate OS just because it's not made by them.
STOP. I do not think that Linux sucks. (If you want to hear my personal opinion Linux just has the usual "many people cooking one dinner" problems - and many, very old school people sitting on it and developing without the EYE/focus what actually a mainstream/everyday user WANTS.
Big companies like MS do exactly that - Win got easier and easier...do you remember what a mess it was with 95/98 just to install a network ? HECK i remember times (on the AMiga) i had to WRITE my own startup scripts for slip to even conect/login to the internet.
From that point of view windows has gone BIG steps towards the user, the human person in front of the computer.
Linux still lacks there, IMHO.
BUT...the BIGGEST problem with Linux is that all the mainstream software does NOT come out for Linux....but for Win. I do not want to install a OS(Linux) "because its better" (and the CODE is for sure MUCH better than Windows) - INSTEAD i wanna use a OS as a tool for the software (apps and games) running under it.
I have no choice than going with Windows.(Literally, since at least with the advent of DirectX games now NEED WIndows to even run on a PC).....i guess you might stil remember days when there were games which did NOT need an OS underlying to even run. |
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Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
| said by flexy123 :
the CODE is for sure MUCH better than Windows
You've seen the Windows source code?
(Before anyone says anything, don't point out that small leak earlier this year. That doesn't count.) |
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