SKYHN
Lu.. Lu.. Lulululu
Premium
join:2001-09-16
99999
| reply to yock
Re: What?
But my point is, if your allowing it to be installed on pirated systems, why care about where its being downloaded from? If EVERY SINGLE copy of windows xp, legit or pirated, is able to use it without restriction, what is the problem?
If they wanted to fight piracy the best thing they could do is release a somewhat complete and secure product. Many of the people who pirate their software is because they dont want to pay a premium price for a incomplete and insecure product. Would you buy a new car with 3 tires, 1 door and half a steering wheel? |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by SKYHN  :
But my point is, if your allowing it to be installed on pirated systems, why care about where its being downloaded from? If EVERY SINGLE copy of windows xp, legit or pirated, is able to use it without restriction, what is the problem?
They aren't "allowing" it, they simply have no way of restricting it reliably. I thought I made that point very clear... |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to SKYHN
said by SKYHN :
Many of the people who pirate their software is because they dont want to pay a premium price for a incomplete and insecure product. Would you buy a new car with 3 tires, 1 door and half a steering wheel?
I know many people who pirate software (such as OS's) and don't think twice about it. I've never heard any of them given that excuse. And no I wouldn't buy a 3 tired car, but I wouldn't steel it either.
--
"Affluence separates people. Poverty knits 'em together. You got some sugar and I don't; I borrow some of yours. Next month you might not have any flour; well, I'll give you some of mine." - Ray Charles |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| reply to SKYHN
said by SKYHN :
Many of the people who pirate their software is because they dont want to pay a premium price for a incomplete and insecure product. Would you buy a new car with 3 tires, 1 door and half a steering wheel?
So paying for a car with 3 tires, 1 door and half a steering wheel is ok, but taking it for a joyride when you didn't pay for it is? If a product doesn't seem worth the price, don't pay for it. There are always alternatives.
If you don't like Windows XP or don't think it's worth the price, don't pirate it, install Linux. If you don't like Photoshop or don't think it's worth the price, buy Paint Shop Pro (only $99 compared to Photoshop's $500+) or download Gimp for free.
I'm sorry, but "I pirate because the program's not worth the price" is a very poor excuse indeed. (I'm not accusing you of piracy, just don't like the reason you gave why people pirate.)
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ |
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SKYHN
Lu.. Lu.. Lulululu
Premium
join:2001-09-16
99999
| reply to yock
said by yock :
said by SKYHN :
But my point is, if your allowing it to be installed on pirated systems, why care about where its being downloaded from? If EVERY SINGLE copy of windows xp, legit or pirated, is able to use it without restriction, what is the problem?
They aren't "allowing" it, they simply have no way of restricting it reliably. I thought I made that point very clear...
SP1 did a pretty good job restricting it. I know a few people who dont use legit XP Pro and they were all blocked from getting it. What changed since then?
MS realized that millions of viral infections by their unsecure product could be prevented by allowing pirated versions of it to be patched, so thats what their doing. It should have been done a long time ago. Yeah piracy is bad, but there are things more important to worry about than that. |
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SKYHN
Lu.. Lu.. Lulululu
Premium
join:2001-09-16
99999
| reply to Jason Levine
said by Jason Levine :
said by SKYHN :
Many of the people who pirate their software is because they dont want to pay a premium price for a incomplete and insecure product. Would you buy a new car with 3 tires, 1 door and half a steering wheel?
So paying for a car with 3 tires, 1 door and half a steering wheel is ok, but taking it for a joyride when you didn't pay for it is? If a product doesn't seem worth the price, don't pay for it. There are always alternatives.
If you don't like Windows XP or don't think it's worth the price, don't pirate it, install Linux. If you don't like Photoshop or don't think it's worth the price, buy Paint Shop Pro (only $99 compared to Photoshop's $500+) or download Gimp for free.
I'm sorry, but "I pirate because the program's not worth the price" is a very poor excuse indeed. (I'm not accusing you of piracy, just don't like the reason you gave why people pirate.)
I wasnt necessarily using that as the #1 example of piracy. It of course is because they can get it for free instead of paying. But the insecurity and bugs in Windows XP certainly contribute to some of its piracy.
Personally though, I dont use XP. I only have one system with XP on it and the only reason its on there is because it came with it(Dell Laptop). Its not on my main system or any of my servers, etc. Later this year when I build a new system Im going to have to use it, and I dread that very much. None of the weekly security holes and viruses effect me currently and they havent for the past 3 years. |
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rip_sketches
join:2002-05-25
Dallas, GA
| reply to yock
Your point made nothing clear. Most of the people who are getting the update off of microsofts site are going to be burning that update to a disc and installing it onto multiple computers. Hell i made 5 copies of the SP2 disc already to pass around between friends, family, and collegues.
Plus the problem with the pirates is that as of SP2 RC2 the pirates had already broken the "anti-piracy" steps MS took. Couple that with the fact that many OEM licenses were coming up as pirated MS had to change stance at the last moment and ditch that idea.
MS is currently into the business of making it where they want you to do everything THEIR way. Over the past 10 years of computing as soon as anyone comes up with an original idea it has been copied and inserted into their OS the best they can. Patents filed and original ideas locked out. |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| reply to SKYHN
said by SKYHN :
I wasnt necessarily using that as the #1 example of piracy. It of course is because they can get it for free instead of paying. But the insecurity and bugs in Windows XP certainly contribute to some of its piracy.
I still don't see how insecurity and bugs would be a reason to pirate a program or OS. To me, those would be reasons to avoid it whether I paid for it or not. I do agree though that "getting it for free" is the #1 reason for piracy. Some people just don't think they should have to pay for software at all no matter what the software author says. (Freeware is perfectly ok, so long as it's the author who decided it should be free.)
said by SKYHN :
Personally though, I dont use XP. I only have one system with XP on it and the only reason its on there is because it came with it(Dell Laptop). Its not on my main system or any of my servers, etc. Later this year when I build a new system Im going to have to use it, and I dread that very much. None of the weekly security holes and viruses effect me currently and they havent for the past 3 years.
I've had an XP system up and running for 2 years now and so long as you take basic security precautions (something you need to do no matter what OS you use), you'll be fine. By basic security precautions, I mean run a firewall (e.g. ZoneAlarm), anti-virus program (Avast or AVG are good freeware alternatives), and secure your browser settings. You get bonus security points if you use a router also.
Just remember that the biggest security hole tends to reside between the chair and the keyboard. Take care of that hole and your system will be pretty secure.
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ |
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Bichon
Premium,MVM
join:2002-10-10
Freehold, NJ
| reply to SKYHN
said by SKYHN :
Would you buy a new car with 3 tires, 1 door and half a steering wheel?
No, of course not. But I wouldn't steal such a vehicle either. |
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MightWolf
join:2002-06-17
Windsor, ON | What if they were giving it to you for free? |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| said by MightWolf :
What if they were giving it to you for free?
Sure. $50 bucks for a tire and I get a vehicle. |
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sivran
Long Live The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to SKYHN
Naw, IMO the biggest thing Microsoft, Adobe, et. al. could do to curb piracy is lower the damn price. Microsoft in particular I have no doubt could still make their millions off software if they sold it at a reasonable price instead of the hundreds they sell it for now.
This, along with non-invasive, transparent copy protection would do a lot to curb piracy among individual users (corporations are another matter, and professional pirates won't be stopped regardless) as these are two big things that contribute to the problem. Lowering prices and ditching invasive, possibly system-crashing copy protection would reduce piracy and increase sales at the same time. Developers learned once about the copy protection issue, but from the looks of things they're going to have to learn it again.
On topic, Windows and its service packs are not open source, GPL, or any other sort of software that gives you the right to distribute them, in whole or in part, in binary or in source, to anyone else. The author, Microsoft, retains the right to be the sole distributor and thus what Downhill Battle was doing was at the very least copyright infringement.
--
TCPA - Treacherous Computing
Kerio 2.1.5 - Best damn firewall
Win98SE - Best all-round Windows OS for home use, period. |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| reply to rip_sketches
He made his point perfectly clear, just not in the right words.
Microsoft wants to control the access because sooner or later on the P2P programs some smacktard is going to insert a virus into the service pack, put it up for download, then Microsoft is going to get thousands of calls.
You get it from Microsoft and that worry is non-existant.
--
Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| Yes. Because Microsoft's own servers have been so iron-clad secure that there's never been the possibility of insertion of bogus code... 
-tom
--
"There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't."
"That's only 2 types of people, moron" |
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AmnChode
Premium
join:2001-03-27
San Antonio, TX | reply to Jason Levine
of course, when a majority of the users of the world use MS's product, thus a mojority of the software(ie, games) are being released for it, your kinda stuck in a catch 22. Are you not??? |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| said by AmnChode :
of course, when a majority of the users of the world use MS's product, thus a mojority of the software(ie, games) are being released for it, your kinda stuck in a catch 22. Are you not???
Not really. Windows is the only operating system that will run the programs/games you just need to use you should either pay for Windows or just not use that program/game.
There are a lot of alternatives to Windows-only programs that run on Linux. I know of a bunch and I don't even use Linux. Use OpenOffice instead of MS Office. Use Gimp instead of Photoshop, etc. I'm sure one of the heavy Linux users here could post a better list. Plus, there are Windows emulation programs that can run many Windows applications.
As a side benefit, the more users on Linux, the more likely that developers will make Linux versions of their products.
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ |
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VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| reply to Wills
Like the infected files on MS's own download sites, for example? (There were several instances of this - one that I remember involving Word macro virus infections in their .DOC files (notice how those are all zipped into self-extracting .exe files now?), and one that I think involved some binaries too.)
The funny thing is, file-integrity shouldn't be an issue here, the SP2 installer is digitally-signed by MS. So if it were possible to modify the download, in a way that was not able to be detected by the digital signature "wrapper", then that would be directly akin to MS admitted that their whole digital signature system doesn't work. |
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