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mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T Midwest
3 edits | reply to Alpine
Re: Too Big for Their Britches
Hi! You must be new here. A few things you should know to help you understand the madness a little better:
1. If you support the Bells you are a "shill". If you support the CLECs, you are a "consumer advocate".
1(a). If you say anything even remotely nice about the Bells you will be accused of working for them or being a stockholder (they have no right to an opinion, y'know). If you say anything nice about the CLEC's you are most certainly a "consumer advocate". CLEC employees and stockholders never, ever visit here or post comments.
2. The "consumer advocates" will incessantly bring up the fact that the Bells have been around for 100+ years and have a firm leg-up in the industry. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that most of the infrastructure everyone is bickering about...namely, broadband and fiber...was installed after the 1996 Telecommunications Act.
3. While I'm on the subject of the TCA, please understand that the Act was intended to give the CLECs complete access to another company's resources, forever, with no expectation that the CLEC will ever do anything for themselves. Yeah, I know that's not what the Act really says, but that's how the "consumer advocates" read it, so humor them and their alternate-reality plane...the dialog will go soooo much smoother.
4. As you have seen in this thread, the "I don't want my yard dug up" is also a popular excuse to bash the Bells. Forgive the "consumer advocates". They have never heard of wireless, cellphones, VOIP, or radio-guided boring equipment that can pull cable hundreds and hundreds of feet and do no more damage than a spade-sized hole at the end of the block.
5. There have been no reported sightings of CLEC technicians climbing utility poles in the rain, or sitting in manholes on Christmas. In fact, no one is certain if there even is such a creature known as a "CLEC tech." But don't worry. The "consumer advocates" have assured us that the Verizon truck you saw rolling along at 2:00 am was really a CLEC attorney/public relations hack hurrying to the aid of a customer in need.
There are other tidbits I could toss out to you, but I guess that'll do for now. Enjoy you visit.
Peace,
mocycler
--
The Lord's Prayer is 66 words. The Gettysburg Address is 286 words; there are 1,322 words in the Declaration of Independence. Government regulations on the sale of cabbage is 26,911 words. »www.lp.org | |
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| I would agree with most of 1 and 2. However, 2 would probably have never taken place if things were not forced upon bells.
3 is questionable and really not relevant because of the extreme barrier of entry in the market. They pay a reasonable cost that the bells got to come up with on their own (can we say bloated?). In all your infinite knowledge what you would propose? Would you suggest that every company (in every county, city, state) run their own wire to a consumer's house to provide them service? Every single one of those places would then end up with 1 choice, maybe 2, but if they are really lucky 3. That is until they are gobbled up by the other. This would slowly expand from the county, to the city, to the state, to the region (really it would probably start here), then probably nationally.
4 I don’t know about the equipment, but I do know what I saw around here when cable was upgrading: Trenches, road detours, and spools of cable sitting next to roads. The wireless and cell phone things you mention are pointless as we are talking about 2 different things here and wireless for true networking for the most part just plain blows.
5 CLEC's pay the bells to support this, as they should. It is currently the Bells network and the CLEC's are renting it. Pretty standard practice anytime you rent something.
This is fun, come up with some more tidbits. While you are add it, provide a SINGLE benefit to a community that would result from removing the CLEC's ability to use the local monopoly's infrastructure and forcing them to build their own. Just one, that is all I as for and everyone is free to contribute. I always here the "it's our network" argument, which isn't valid (barriers). But that is not a benefit to the community. Good Luck! | |
JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | And much the CLECs mocycler is railing on do have their own networks, but only the bells have the last mile, which as Skippy says, most people would be lucky to get 2 different provider drops to their home if even possible. | |
mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
2 edits | reply to Skippy25
said by Skippy25  :
3...not relevant because of the extreme barrier of entry in the market...In all your infinite knowledge what you would propose? Would you suggest that every company (in every county, city, state) run their own wire to a consumer's house to provide them service?
What do you mean "not relevant"? The very essence of TCA96 was to allow entry into the market. It gave the CLECs full access to a turnkey, top shelf network with zero effort on their own part. Yet even after that, so many of them still wind up in bankruptcy court. Where the blankety-blank have you been since 1996? I would propose that the CLECs get off their lazy asses and start innovating instead of depending on a competitor to supply them in perpetuity with the very resource needed to make money. Technology has advanced since simple copper wire run to each and every home. You should really be asking the CLECs what have they been doing to develop new ideas so they can compete like a real business instead of finger-pointing at the Bells who are actually out there doing it.
Funny, In these forums I always hear "I'm pissed at (insert name of RBOC here) because they won't give me broadband!" You never hear "(generic CLEC) sucks! They won't do anything for me!"
said by Skippy25 :
I don't know about the equipment
Of course you don't! You are a "consumer advocate". It's the Bells' problem to figure all that stuff out. As for the cableco digging up the streets? At least they are out there, working. Would it make you happier if a CLEC tore up the neighborhood instead? I guess we need a law that compels the RBOC to loan them a radio-guided boring machine. At cost, of course.
said by Skippy25 :
provide a SINGLE benefit to a community that would result from removing the CLEC's ability to use the local monopoly's infrastructure and forcing them to build their own.
I'll give you more than one.
1. Innovation derived from having to build a stand-alone infrastructure results in better service and advanced technology for customers. Maybe it would be easier for you to provide a single long-term benefit that would result from a CLEC reselling the same old RBOC copper and making no effort to come up with anything new. With your attitude, someone should have sued Thomas Edison for the right to use his phonograph patent...and today we'd still be listening to wax cylinders.
2. With their own autonomous network, CLECs would have a greater financial stake...not just be "renters"...therefore less likely to go under, forcing creditors and customers to eat the bill.
3. TCA96, and all the bazillions of taxpayer dollars plowed into it, would have never been needed in the first place.
Take care,
mocycler
--
The Lord's Prayer is 66 words. The Gettysburg Address is 286 words; there are 1,322 words in the Declaration of Independence. Government regulations on the sale of cabbage is 26,911 words. »www.lp.org | |
mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
1 edit | reply to Skippy25
oops. never mind. | |
mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | reply to Skippy25
A fiber boring machine. Notice that the entire neighborhood is not decimated. Requires only two operators. | |
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to mocycler
You know I had this big response all typed up and as I was proofing it I realized I didn't need it for 2 reasons 1.) You obviously don't comprehend what I have already clearly stated so saying it again won't help. 2.) You pretty much reinforce EVERYTHING I have been saying with this simple sentence:
"... so many of them still wind up in bankruptcy court."
Ouch!
"I'll give you more than one." I'll take just one, as not a single one of what you provided show a benefit to the consumers. Really is that the best you came up with? Yes the CLEC's can begin investing those billions of dollars they are "robbing" the RBOC's of and find a better way to lay that fiber. I am partial to the fairy dust method, maybe one of them will come up with a working prototype. Oh I'm sorry, maybe they can get to that after the bankruptcy hearings.
Lastly, you quoted my questions but fail to answer them. You just can't move past the sharing of the network so I will ask again:
1.) Would you suggest that every company (in every county, city, state) run their own "wire" to a consumer's house to provide them service?
2.) What do you propose would be the best thing to do? Let's innovate together, shall we? I propose that the ENTIRE infrastructure (every cable, fiber and copper wire) is taken over and owned by a company or 2 and all service providers "rent" the lines from them. I have a long list of benefits to both the consumers and the service providers for this, but won't waste the space here. Surely you can think of the obvious ones. | |
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