BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| reply to TamaraB
Re: Zombies
said by TamaraB  :
said by BosstonesOwn :
Problem being is that new users to new technologies always going to make mistakes ...
Right on! However to me, windows is the "new technology", the new kid on the block; if it can't do UUCP it's raw-new! 
Amazing how some people think nix systems are "new technologies", when they actually pre-date windows by decades!
Bob
No you misread.
I know how old unix is. However Linux is circa 1992-1993 so newer then windows.
And your misunderstanding is how I said new technology. To a life long windows user unix is new. So please leave the linux guru attitude at the door. It will quickly be wiped out when one fails to read into responses.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :
In a perfect world, everyone would know both operating systems. If you are hiring right out of college, then you have more flexibility than 99% of us do and can demand Linux knowledge.
I don't think knowing any particular operating system has very much to do with it at all. What I look for in a potential hire is someone who understands how things work "under the hood".... In other words someone who understands how the internet works at it's most fundamental levels, totally apart from OS constraints...
How does mail get from point a to point b, How is a web-page "pulled up" by a browser, how does SSH and SSL auth provide a secure tunnel? How can we tell if "user@example.com" is a real address or a spoofed one? How does DNS resolve a name to IP and an IP to name? Anyone who demonstrates a real knowledge and understanding of how these processes function is a potential employee.
What I have found is that most windows-centric IT folks, lack this fundamental knowledge; and instead know how to manipulate a particular OS-Specific program or tool to achieve a certain goal; but do not understand what is happening "under the hood". I have interviewed people with a long list of Certs. MCSE etc, who have no Idea (or a cursory idea) of how things actually work in reality, but could sit down in front of a Win2K IIS/Exchange server and make it do practically anything. I find this totally un-acceptable.
Most of my problems stem from fundamental flaws or omissions in the underlying architecture, and without an understanding of these architectures, a tech or administrator is totally lost in trying to remedy the problem. It has gotten so bad lately that I now discount any job applicant who uses an MCSE cert as evidence of competency! If that is the prevalent part of a resume, it goes into the trash! If on the other-hand, an applicant demonstrates a knowledge of how reality functions, he/she is promptly considered, no matter what OS he/she uses to ferret out the trouble.
I fear Gates has done the IT industry, and the internet community in general, a great dis-service! Practically ruined it actually! The "click-here" mentality is the root cause of most of the garbage we see today. That mentality tends to foster a profound ignorance of how things actually work and replaces reality with some "graphical pseudo-picture" of reality, which 9 times out of 10 is totally irrelevant!
Take all of this with a grain of salt! I AM very biased when it comes to MS. I believe they have been the bane of the internet, and have ruined what could have been an enabling and instructive public medium.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn :
No you misread.
I know how old unix is. However Linux is circa 1992-1993 so newer then windows.
You are quibbling about variations on an old theme. Linux is nothing more than a replacement for SCO Xenix (an X-86 version of AT&T UNIX) the difference is akin to the differences between PC-DOS, MS-DOS, and DR-DOS. If you can deal with one, you can deal with the rest. Linux (and X86 Free/Net-BSD) is nothing more than an X86 version of UNIX, which pre-dates DOS and Windows by years. They all work the same way, and differ very slightly.
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to BosstonesOwn
But technically since the Linux authors claim it was a whole new rewrite of what THEY thought the environment should be it is a new technology same as windows was.
Different peoples looks on an OS. Very slight differences indeed but They are not the same technology since Linux was recoded. Again a difference of opinion by the authors of the software themselves. Same as the dos example.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to TamaraB
I won't quote your entire post TamaraB, but I have to agree with some points. First off, you would think that most IT people graduating today would know the answers to the questions you pose. I know, if I couldn't explain routing or how to configure it on a Cisco, that I wouldn't get the job. The easy part is setting up email accounts, which I would expect someone at home to know what to do. The hard part is, as you say, how to know if an address is real or spoofed.
What I have found in my travels are IT people who self educate themselves and know very little. Windows people aside, I find Linux nuts who don't have a clue on the inner workings of a network or how to properly upkeep systems. I have interviewed people with MCSE's, A+, CNA's, and CNE's that have no earthly idea how to administrate a network. That is indeed sad. Which is why I hire those that have not only real world experience, but have the education to back it up. Certifications come in 3rd on the list.
I fail to understand how someone, who knows exchange and IIS, don't know how the web works or how to tell a spoofed address apart from a real address. Maybe I get curious and learn how to do these things. Either that or you are biased, as you say. Which is fine, you aren't hiring for my company.
Gates has done wonders for the computer industry that is for sure. He has had nothing to do with the IT side. The people who think going out and getting certifications for high paying jobs are the people to blame. The people who have no real world experience but think they deserve that 90k a year job because they have a college degree are at fault. Getting a good paying job in IT requires not only constant learning, but a good base of education to start out in. No one wants to start out at the bottom anymore. I don't blame Gates at all for the IT job market it is today. That blame falls squarely on the people who make it look so terrible.
The point and click interface has made computers so much easier. It was the Apple that got that started actually. For the end users, to make learning computers easy was the best thing that could have happened. In my opinion, if we were still using DOS and Linux, Apple would have won out. Just my opinion though.
I agree with some of your points though so don't think I am bashing you. I enjoy spending the time exchanging ideas with another IT professional.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
| reply to mculbert
said by mculbert :
Maybe it's more like the IT managers don't want their employee's virus ridden zombie email blasters on the corporate network.
I sure as hell don't.
No where in said articles does it even mention about computers spamming networks that are VPN'd to. What it comes down to is that there are officers and managers that come from the old School of thought of "A watched worker is a productive worker, an un-watched one is wasting company money!"
Get with it people, read the articles before jumping to conclusions, and also Telecommuniting is how most work is done nowdays, due to managers and sales people are rarely in their offices and are on the road, or traveling to job sites.
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One man's customer loyalty is another man's miguided arrogance. |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | reply to Nightfall
Nightfall, you could not of stated your facts any better.
No wonder that you have such a wide following.
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One man's customer loyalty is another man's miguided arrogance. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| said by Greg_Z :
Nightfall, you could not of stated your facts any better.
No wonder that you have such a wide following.
A wide following of people who hate me maybe. 
Thanks for the kudos though.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal |
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PTS
Premium
join:2001-12-13
Charlotte, NC
clubs: | reply to mculbert
The company I used to work for required company-supplied AV, firewall, and VPN app be used. Permission was given ONLY to those with a legitimate need to access from home. Never had any real problems with it in the two years I was there... |
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