ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
| Burned Thru $25 Million
Who said the 1990's were dead? I'd love to know how much the CEO and his pals at the venture capital firm lavished on themselves -- and whose pension funds were raided to make it happen. Our SEC officials -- or politicians thereof must be getting something out of it too. |
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Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| said by ronpin  :
Who said the 1990's were dead? I'd love to know how much the CEO and his pals at the venture capital firm lavished on themselves -- and whose pension funds were raided to make it happen.
A pension fund in a start up company? Your bleak cynicism has blinded you from reality.
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
1 edit | Where do you think Venture Capital Funds get their funds??? Do you think it's their money??? No, of course not. They get their money by promoting each of their startup companies to various large funds -- like Fidelity and others -- where your 401K savings are stored. Most large funds set aside a part of "their" assets to invest in "high-risk" ventures -- managed by Venture Capital funds. Trust me -- it's the classic good 'ol boy network. Nobody complains as long as there is a decent overall return to the base fund. That leaves tons of money to skim-off through high salaries and bonuses to the "in-crowd". Did you think investment bankers actually deserve their 7 figure salaries???
Has your rosy optimism blinded you from reality? |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| If that were true, it would be the fault of the fund's investors for not doing their homework. You should read the prospectus before investing in any mutual fund. Of course some funds invest in VC, but plenty of funds don't.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
1 edit | Trust me -- if you were a large 401K fund manager and your cousin Vinny laid out a plan to fund a game-box startup -- and there are commisions and jobs for your friends and family involved -- you'd do it too. Meanwhile Vinny gets 51% of the startup and you get an ample supply of stock options. Everyone with connections here makes out like bandits -- oh and the 401K fund gets a nice 10% return too -- so everyone is happy. It's just that some people are really happy. Oh, if the startup goes belly-up before an IPO or a sell-out -- who cares??? a lot of people made a lot of money in salaries, bonuses and fees -- and they only need an occassional real success to pay for several blunders.
That's OK its all legal -- and what you don't know won't hurt you will it? People smart enough to pull this off probably deserve the money eh? (people like us -- dumb enough to let 'em do it "deserve-it" too) |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
1 edit | Yes, if you can't be bothered to read a prospectus I can't be bothered to have much sympathy for you. As an investor you have a right to know where your money is. There's no excuse for not finding this out when it comes to your retirement money. Investing in VC is against the strategy of most retirement funds, and they will be called on it. Can you name an example of when this has happened?
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
| Heh-heh -- try asking your 401K fund manager what high-risk funds they invested in last year. Try to get the names of the startups that ultimately benefitted. Be sure to ask how much everyone involved made. Heh-heh -- good-luck -- I hope your well connected and you don't have some bad luck afterwards.
You really need to understand that these guys honestly believe that they deserve to make millions on our 401K savings -- after-all they're really all about helping us poor working slobs. |
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Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| reply to ronpin
said by ronpin :
Has your rosy optimism blinded you from reality?
You've ignored the question. What start up has a pension fund?
What funds have been looted? Who has been prosecuted? Has the federal government's pension garuntee board stepped in to take over any bankrupt firm's obligations?
I'd bet the answers are all negative.
This fits the pattern established by CBS. Absent facts, make stuff up.
Your black cynicism is not shared by the population.
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. |
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Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| reply to ronpin
said by ronpin :
You really need to understand that these guys honestly believe that they deserve to make millions on our 401K savings
For once I agree with you.
That's why I use Vanguard ( with fee's around .17% yearly) and S&P depository reciepts ( about .14% ). These are my retirement dollars. I am not interested in paying for anyone else's.
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | reply to Beeper
You just don't get it -- no laws have been broken! Everyone is happy (again some are really happy) Now get back to work -- 'cause they really need your 401K savings -- to invest for you! |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| reply to ronpin
said by ronpin :
Heh-heh -- try asking your 401K fund manager what high-risk funds they invested in last year. Try to get the names of the startups that ultimately benefitted. Be sure to ask how much everyone involved made. Heh-heh -- good-luck -- I hope your well connected and you don't have some bad luck afterwards.
You don't know what you're talking about. Mutual funds release a semi-annual list of every stock and fund they invest in. It's public information, and it would be illegal for a fund manager to secretly misappropriate funds. On top of that, most 401k programs give you a choice of STOCK funds, meaning VC has nothing to do with this.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Sure -- whatever you say |
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Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| reply to ronpin
said by ronpin :
You just don't get it -- no laws have been broken! Everyone is happy (again some are really happy) Now get back to work -- 'cause they really need your 401K savings -- to invest for you!
Why aren't you happy then?
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
| Maybe I should've said fat, dumb and happy. Clearly -- just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical (and the opposite is true also)
I could be happy -- with a simple law requiring VC's get money only from high-risk funds that must be specifically opted into. Right now your 401K fund mgr. has too much leeway. Most people have no idea how their 401K savings are invested. As long as the return beats the CD rates -- they're [fat, dumb and] happy. I don't think the good 'ol boy network is fair -- even if it is "natural". |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs: | Can you name a single mutual fund that deceptively invests in venture capital?
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. |
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jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | reply to ronpin
Why ask him? I can look mine up on the internet on the companies website and I can also do math so I would know about any changes. |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
| reply to Rhobite
Why would they need to deceive? IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL -- As long as no internal policies or risk fund allocation ratios are exceeded. Again, it's all legal. As long as everybody gets a cut -- they're happy. I just think it's unfair that "skimming" [for millions] is just part of the game. It's just too easy. |
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Whatever12
@168.143.x.x | reply to ronpin
You have no idea what you're talking about. |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| reply to ronpin
said by ronpin :
Why would they need to deceive? IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL -- As long as no internal policies or risk fund allocation ratios are exceeded. Again, it's all legal. As long as everybody gets a cut -- they're happy. I just think it's unfair that "skimming" [for millions] is just part of the game. It's just too easy.
Fine, it's completely legal, but you still haven't named a single fund that does this.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. |
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DrTCP
Yours truly
Premium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
| reply to Beeper
said by Beeper :
A pension fund in a start up company? Your bleak cynicism has blinded you from reality.
I took it as other pention funds investing in this company (it is/was a publicly traded company - they bough a public company and changed its name, an unusual thing) |
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