AJ023
join:2001-12-25
Forest Hills, NY
| reply to jbjetta
Re: With whom does Nokia work with?
All UNE-L means is that if we want DSL, we can get covad with their own Voice/data solution vs verizon with their own voice/data solution. It does not improve service for any of us.
We need the death of the copper loop, not a way to reuse the copper loop and just keep the existing copper plant alive.
UNE-L would have been great in the past because it would have made sure that incumbents would not have had the opportunity to unfairly win the fight against competition. Remember those bitter moments of when Covad, and Verizon sued and countersued as well as other CLECs.
Im not against UNE-L and I think under existing regulations and the like it will provide more competition than none. But I wish the carriers would realize that the plant HAS to be replaced. Covad should figure out ways to extend the fiber to homes, not continue to rely on existing POTS infrastructure. |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by AJ023  :
All UNE-L means is that if we want DSL, we can get covad with their own Voice/data solution vs verizon with their own voice/data solution. It does not improve service for any of us.
We need the death of the copper loop, not a way to reuse the copper loop and just keep the existing copper plant alive.
UNE-L would have been great in the past because it would have made sure that incumbents would not have had the opportunity to unfairly win the fight against competition. Remember those bitter moments of when Covad, and Verizon sued and countersued as well as other CLECs.
Im not against UNE-L and I think under existing regulations and the like it will provide more competition than none. But I wish the carriers would realize that the plant HAS to be replaced. Covad should figure out ways to extend the fiber to homes, not continue to rely on existing POTS infrastructure.
Until the government funds it, or companies find a way to capitalize on fiber in a HUGE way, it will never happen. Why? It just plain COSTS TOO MUCH. |
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AJ023
join:2001-12-25
Forest Hills, NY | What is needed is new governmental policy. The existing broadband policy by this administration has failed miserably. Japan has 2 competitors for Optical Fiber I believe now. We ought to follow the Japan example. |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by AJ023 :
What is needed is new governmental policy. The existing broadband policy by this administration has failed miserably. Japan has 2 competitors for Optical Fiber I believe now. We ought to follow the Japan example.
Easy to do in a country that is that population dense and where the gov't controls much of the businesses. |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| said by icp1 :
Easy to do in a country that is that population dense and where the gov't controls much of the businesses.
Exactly...when people are stacked on top of each other, it is easy to run fiber....
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Playing the Tuba isn't an art, it's an adventure! http://www.lakesidepride.org |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| But yet the big cities don't have fiber to the home ? Odd. Please stop making excuses for our country. They could have done it but are just plain to greedy.
On a side note why is it every person in the US if something isn't favorable to us we make excuses about why it isn't nothing like just admitting we screwed up or are to greedy to get the job done.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| said by BosstonesOwn :
But yet the big cities don't have fiber to the home ? Odd. Please stop making excuses for our country. They could have done it but are just plain to greedy.
On a side note why is it every person in the US if something isn't favorable to us we make excuses about why it isn't nothing like just admitting we screwed up or are to greedy to get the job done.
This country's largest cities have much more room between buildings than Tokyo. In Tokyo, a typical residential building occupies every square foot of the lot that it is on. It is easy to string fiber between buildings because you just run the fiber along the building.
In the States, many buildings are surrounded by at least a few feet of ground, and often have some form of a back-yard. The only way to run fiber in major cities in the States is either run it underground, or string it on a pole. Not only do these two solutions have excessive costs involved, there are also tons of legal issues to go along with it.
I am more than happy to not have FFTH if it means I can have a yard. If I wanted to live in tight quarters, stacked up against my neighbors, I would move to Tokyo.
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Playing the Tuba isn't an art, it's an adventure! http://www.lakesidepride.org |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Have you been to a major city in awhile. We have building here 5 stories high with about 8 apartments per floor. And you can't just run it across buildings. They bury the cable underground like we should do in our cities.
The fiber system they plan on deploying is like the current cable system. Strung pole to pole but actually filling the last 1/2 mile with fiber instead of coax cable like cable.
It is very do able.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| said by BosstonesOwn :
Have you been to a major city in awhile. We have building here 5 stories high with about 8 apartments per floor. And you can't just run it across buildings. They bury the cable underground like we should do in our cities.
The fiber system they plan on deploying is like the current cable system. Strung pole to pole but actually filling the last 1/2 mile with fiber instead of coax cable like cable.
It is very do able.
For starters, if you read my original post, you would see that I was talking about Tokyo where fiber is strung between buildings.
Also, I *JUST* moved from one of the most populated areas of Chicago, so, yes, I have been to a major city lately.
Have you been to Tokyo lately? Have you seen how fiber is usually implemented there?
Typically, it is run from one building to the next, just by punching through the exterior wall...why...because buildings are right next to each other...literally!
The point is, to put new lines on a pole, you have to pay for the right-of-way because the pole usually belongs to the electric company. Then, you have to invest in weatherproof break-out points on the pole, not to mention the equipment needed on the side of the house/apt building.
Can it be done here in the States? Yup. 21st Century (RCN now) rolled out a pole-based fiber solution in Chicago several years ago; however, the roll out took a few years and was expensive.
Now, the whole point of this is that Tokyo *CAN* implement a solution like this because it is far more cost effective and easier. A similar solution in the States would cost far more money, hence a slower roll-out.
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Playing the Tuba isn't an art, it's an adventure! http://www.lakesidepride.org |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Take a look more at how the fiber tech verizon is using works you will find that the prices that companies tell you are grossly overinflated.
People in this country make to many excuses for our joke of a network system. The thing is to get the job done and not fall behind the rest of the world.
American way I guess if we can't do it, it costs to much or there is no interest. That is why our country falls by leaps and bounds day after day.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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achuchma
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL
| said by BosstonesOwn :
Take a look more at how the fiber tech verizon is using works you will find that the prices that companies tell you are grossly overinflated.
People in this country make to many excuses for our joke of a network system. The thing is to get the job done and not fall behind the rest of the world.
American way I guess if we can't do it, it costs to much or there is no interest. That is why our country falls by leaps and bounds day after day.
I take it you have never planned a mass fiber roll out...If you did, you would understand everything that is involved to even consider tacking fiber to a pole or putting it in the ground.
I have project managed many fiber installs to Customer sites over my years in the telecommunications field...I know what the base costs are involved...I know how much it costs to buy "right-of-way" and I know how to deal with the regulation.
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Playing the Tuba isn't an art, it's an adventure! http://www.lakesidepride.org |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to BosstonesOwn
Ah but the people rolling out the fiber already have the right away with their copper so there is no more incurred cost besides for a little greasing of politicians and some police to "watch" over the hanging of the fiber.
Btw I worked for MCI/WorldCom terming fiber runs into the local dc. They had to pay right of way because they never had a hanging infrastructure like the big boys do. They pay yearly for those rights. MCI didn't already have rights to the space like say verizon or comcast so they had to pay for the rights.
Like anything else attention to detail is critical. The verizon system being implemented uses a node type approach I am sure you are aware of the system had you done much work with the roll outs. It splits the wave like a normal fiber drop would (mux/demux of the spectrum) at a box on the pole like a cable tap almost and then drops the wave over the fiber down to your home. So you basiclly get a dedicated "color". What is the inherent good part of this? One fiber run and that "color" can be sheared to different colors so once the "drop" is on the pole it takes nothing but a guy to come out and run the fiber down to your home.
Interesting isn't it. Once the major layout is done the cost is null and void. Rolling out to one customer is expensive because it is to 1 person. Thier plans are to wire the area no matter what and you pay to get the link later if you choose. Look at Verizons numbers $2.2 k Per sub at the high point with new technology. What happens when they start rolling it out heavy and costs drop like rocks.
We all know the only heavy cost is labor. Get it down to $1000 install and they make a profit on you in 10 months. That's a cost affective roll out. So what you know about the pricing while it may very well be pretty valid is out the window with this roll out. Hell even what I know is out the window. I am going by Verizon numbers.
To say that it is too expensive is a rather large lie, Since we know that a fiber run to 1 customer takes a very long time to pay off. When I was at worldcom it was something close to 6 K a mile. Now a t-3 even running over that at 15 K a month (again prices from my last day) and you run 10 miles 4 months it's paid off and your making profit after that. Not to mention the customer absorbs some cost and you lock em into a 2 year contract minimum if your a good sales man and you can see why the cost is prohibitive.
If you get another company beside that one and the first isn't using all the pipe hell you can piggy back and not have to pay again.
I could go on and on I guess. But those are rather old numbers and I am sure the cost has come down some.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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