Security → Support problems with BOClean CompUSA purchase

Hi all,

I just wanted to alert potential buyers of BOClean that BOClean is not supporting purchases that have been made through CompUSA. This basically means, as far as I understand it, based upon email I received from Kevin, that I am not entitled to any upgrades. (I have tried for several days to receive confirmation of this from Kevin or Nancy, but so far I have received no firm reply).

Also, since I do not have an order number on file with BOClean, I cannot enter into their members download section. I am really disappointed with this turn of events. I think that both parties should make this clear since in the past any time I have purchased a product from any third-party, the original vendor provided full support. I hope this message allows others on this forum to avoid the mistake that I have made.

Rich

Hi Rich,
If that's the case, I would try to return BOClean to CompUSA. This isn't right.
Sincerely, Libra

Hi Libra,

Thanks for you advice. Kevin at BOClean informed me that CompUSA has a no return policy. In any case, I am way beyond any 30 day period. I really discovered this quite by accident since I needed to re-download a copy of BOClean.

Rich

Hi Rich,
I didn't even know you could purchase BOClean in a store, I've never seen it. But I don't see how CompUSA could sell a product that gives free upgrades and support without both. I wouldn't shop there anymore.
Sincerely, Libra

Hi Libra,

It was an online purchase. I have noticed in other threads that people are considering puchasing BOClean from CompUSA because it is discounted. I wanted to alert them that concerning the support issues.

Rich

That really sucks. I don't know what the deal is between the two companies but they really should work something out for the customers. If not, avoid them both altogether. If I was BoClean, I would at least offer a limited time upgrade for you.

Hi ananeemous,

I have to say that I was quite a bit surprised. I did ask Kevin if there would be an "upgrade price" but he has not responded. Thanks for your comments.

Rich

Sorry for all the confusion this has caused - I have indeed answered your emails, but for the benefit of your privacy I won't reprint it here.

MY problem is that I'm technical and don't work in the office, so I'll draw Nancy's attention to this and see if she can give a *real* answer tomorrow. In the meantime, here's the scoop as *I* understand it.

When you buy DIRECTLY from us (the preferred method, although no discounts) at nsclean.com through Digital River, we have a policy of 30 day refund, plus free updates and free upgrades without limit. When you go to a DISCOUNTER, however, they're not us, they're RESELLERS who purchased a "bulk license" which is normally reserved for instituional sales. Each RESELLER has their OWN policies and for the discounted price that they resell our product for, there are limitations that THEY impose. In the case of CompUSA and a few other "online merchants" it is THEIR policy that there is no refund for ANY purchase through them, not just our products. You've got to watch yourself when you go through discounters, there are strings attached. Be sure to read them before ordering.

That all said, the purchase of BOClean has certain terms and conditions - most notably FREE updates, AND free upgrades. EVERY customer, no matter where they purchase BOClean, gets that. However, there's another little angle with respect to CompUSA and a few other resellers - they don't provide free replacement downloads should your machine eat your copy. You *CAN* purchase what is called "extended download" for an additional amount (not sure of what that amount is) at the time you purchase, but otherwise under the terms and conditions of the RESELLER'S sale, you pay the discounted amount, they get you your copy, and as far as they're concerned, you're done.

When you buy from *US*, "extended download" is available if you want to add that to your order, and that provides the convenience of being able to go back to our page at any time in the future and put in your receipt number and get another copy without having to contact us at all. It ALSO allows you to just go back to the well if there's a new version and download that at your convenience.

When you don't opt for "extended download" at the time of purchase, then you have to come to US for your free upgrade and wait for us to get back in touch with you as quicly as we can. At worst, a slight inconvenience in terms of time since this doesn't occur "instantly" as would be the case with that "extended download." This is what I'd explained in our several emails back and forth.

So even when you DON'T buy it from us (and we lose money on each of these sales) we'll STILL get you those free updates and free upgrades, that's OUR policy regardless of the policies of the resellers you might go to. We won't leave our own customers in a lurch because of the policies of others. But with the discounters, we can't get you a refund, and they won't provide one. Certain other limitations may be part of their discounted price as well. We have no control over other companies - all we can assure is an honest deal when you come to us, that we CAN control.

Naturally though, the sanest thing all around is to buy directly from us and be certain that there won't be hassles, but even when you don't, we won't leave you high and dry. We'll cover you for updates and upgrades, it's just a bit more of a hassle when we didn't make the sale and have to then go and try to find out who did.

Hopefully Nancy can answer any "business-ended" questions anyone might have, but that's the story in a nutshell as best as I understand it. Hope this helps ...

I find this VERY disturbing! Not just the specific problem with BoClean but the general situation. If one vendor can decide that they will not support a product sold by certain third parties but this is not clearly disclosed before purchase, what is there to prevent other vendors with other products from doing likewise? That would be a mess! I am thinking of purchasing Partition Magic and what if Symantec later says they don't support it because I bought it from a third party vendor they don't like/approve of/whatever and no disclosure was made at the time of purchase?

Need to add ... REPLACEMENT copies also cheerfully available if Billy eats our software - all you need to do is send me an email and I can email a copy back if you don't have that "extended download" option ... forgot to mention that. Nobody gets left high and dry with us though ... EVER.

Caveat emptor!

OK, let's be CLEAR about this ... *WE* support our product, and if you buy it from a discounter, WE take care of you. All of the tadoo here is because the way various discounters HANDLE the sale, there's a few hassles involved. For example, CompUSA never notified us of the sale, so this person wasn't in our customer database. Fortunately, he had a copy of his receipt, we were able to query and validate it.

I emailed him a replacement copy, no charge as quickly as I could. I'm sure he can confirm this. When we do new versions, he'll receive those for free, same for the daily updates. So absolutely we didn't leave anyone in a lurch ... as far as the discounters go though, "All sales are final" and that's their policy. We can no more control the policies of a retailer any more than we can control the price of gasoline. The only thing we can do is make good on whatever happens, because our reputation rides on every sale. But that's about all we can do.

All I can suggest is come directly to us for your original purchase, then every aspect is completely under our control, and so is your satisfaction. The policies of retailers though are their own, and they apply them to ALL of the products they sell, not just us.

Kevin,

This is taken directly from the CompUSA webpage:

Both Updates and Upgrades FREE of charge

found here:
»www.compusa.com/products ··· p=SEARCH

So why would he originally be told that he is not entitled to either???

Also, it does state a money back refund policy!!!

said by GuruGuy:

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Also, it does state a money back refund policy!!!

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I think the difference is that the OP bought from CompUSA, not NSClean.

Here are CompUSA terms for downloaded software.

For software downloads
Software downloads are subject to the applicable EULA. If you successfully download software, you may not return the software for a refund. . If you are unable to download the software, you may be eligible for a refund. To request a refund, you must contact our E-Commerce Customer Service Center at Sales_Support@compusa.com or 1-800-653-3831, M-F 8:00 AM -5:00 PM CT within 14 days of purchase. No refunds or exchanges are allowed after 14 days from purchase. CompUSA will only accept returns of downloaded software in compliance with the applicable EULA. A signed letter of destruction may be required from you prior to a refund being issued. Refunds on purchases made with a credit card will be posted to the original credit card used at the time of sale.

Yes, but in the PRODUCT DESCRIPTION ON THAT PAGE, it does state that is has a Money Back refund and Upgrades, etc.

If that info is not correct, then BoClean needs to get it corrected on the CompUSA website. In fact, it specifically states that the product description is PROVIDED BY BoClean!

I do not know that the situation is in the USA. Here in the UK, the contract is between the buyer and the seller. If I buy a radio that does not work, my legal recourse is to take up the matter with the retailer, not the manufacturer. There is NO contract between the buyer and the manufacturer.

Hi Kevin and everyone,

I appreciate the clarification on the update policy. As I understand it, when there is an update, I should apply for an update by supplying an original sales receipt, since as a CompUSA purchaser, I do not have an order number on file with NSCLean nor do I have access to the BOClean area. Is this correct?

I think the uncomfortable aspect of the transaction is that as a BOClean purchaser through CompUSA, I am not entitled to the full privileges as if I had purchased through NCLEan directly. I think you would agree this is highly unusual (I had never had this situation in the past) and for this reason potential buyers of BOClean should go directly to NSClean. I think this was your advice and I agree. Thank you for the clarification.

Rich

said by John2g:

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I do not know that the situation is in the USA. Here in the UK, the contract is between the buyer and the seller. If I buy a radio that does not work, my legal recourse is to take up the matter with the retailer, not the manufacturer. There is NO contract between the buyer and the manufacturer.

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Yes, it is the same here.

We do support for all customers, same as any software company. We need the order number to verify the customer. Customers who purchase through us are quickly verified, as they are entered into the database real-time.

Anyone who buys through any retailer other than the website needs to go to that retailer for a refund. Refunds per the EULA are handled within the *retailer's return policy*, same as buying the software in a box at the store. Some will give a credit back to the buyer's credit card, others will only give a store credit.

*We can only handle refunds for customers who purchase through the website.*

said by GuruGuy:

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So why would he originally be told that he is not entitled to either???

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I have no idea where that myth originated. Let's put an end to it....

When someone purchases a PSC product from a retailer, they are entitled to support, updates and applicable upgrades according to the product's EULA. All our EULAs are available on our website, »www.nsclean.com so you can read them before you buy. Updates are free for all BOClean customers, where one purchases is NOT an issue. All customers must provide a full name and order number for *upgrade* verification when the time comes. That's the same for everyone too. The problem is that any customers that don't purchase from the website will see delays in support and in some cases upgrade requests due to the fact that verifying these customers takes longer. It's the cost of the discount.

quote:

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Also, it does state a money back refund policy!!!

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Which the retailer (in this case CompUSA offers a store credit) will honor per the EULA for 30 days. If you were to go to one of their brick and mortar stores, buy a copy of Flight Sim, for example, and have a problem with it, you don't return it to Microsoft. You go back to the store where you got it, and the store's policy dictates what refund you receive. The deal is the same here.

said by Nancymca:

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It's the cost of the discount.

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Sums it up...

said by richrf3:

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Hi Kevin and everyone,

I appreciate the clarification on the update policy. As I understand it, when there is an update, I should apply for an update by supplying an original sales receipt, since as a CompUSA purchaser, I do not have an order number on file with NSCLean nor do I have access to the BOClean area. Is this correct?

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We need the receipt number/copy for any support or upGRADE request. Customers who purchase from the website will be verified a bit more quickly than those who purchase elsewhere, as it takes 2 months at minimum for those sales to get into our database.

UpDATES are handled automatically by the software.

quote:

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I think the uncomfortable aspect of the transaction is that as a BOClean purchaser through CompUSA, I am not entitled to the full privileges as if I had purchased through NCLEan directly. I think you would agree this is highly unusual (I had never had this situation in the past) and for this reason potential buyers of BOClean should go directly to NSClean.

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It's actually the same as buying the "box from the box". What's different is that with a small company like ours, where people are used to dealing with in one way are suddenly equated to the "big boys" in this retail arrangement. I guess for some it's a cultureshock.

As a woman, I genetically don't see the issue I guess...

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I think this was your advice and I agree. Thank you for the clarification.

Rich

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Pretty much, yes. For full backing by PSC through sale and support, go to the website.

You're welcome.

From my perspective, it doesn't matter where you buy this great program. I tried to get it from Comp USA, they were out, so I d/l from Kevin's site. What the heck. The program was good enough to have, it was good enough to pay full price for and definitely more than enough just having the program for what it does. Kevin and Staff make so little on the product that waiting to get it at a discount didn't set well with me, so I paid full price. The difference between the full price and the discount price wasn't all that much and I suppose might have made a difference to many, although I am fortunate that it didn't to me. Just having the program does.

Good to know. I bought it 2 months ago from CompUSA.com when I saw this thread: »[Hot Deal] BOClean Anti-Trojan Software - Big Discount

Fortunately I did save the download. But I am going to contact K McAleavey to see about getting added to their customer database in case any issues arise...

I haven't been too enthusiastic about CompUSA anyhow, so probably wouldn't have bought it there at any price.

I think it is significant that Kevin and Nancy have been quite responsive in the problem encountered by the OP and should be a good indicator of their commitment to the users of their product. folks like them, Blake M of LinkLogger and others who frequent this forum are welcome differences to the outsourced scratchy VoIP phone script readers and tortuous support processes of many so-called "industry leaders" (anybody called Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo DSL business support lately? )

As for reseller software, in this case CompUSA is NOT providing a service value add, but rather a service level drop in exchange for a price break. In short, lower levels of support in exchange for lower price. I have encountered this in other products - Zone Alarm a couple of years ago, for instance, but their reseller purchased product support has changed since then.

I could rant for hours on reseller gotchas with software and especially "preloaded" systems where no install media is provided for operating system or licensed programs, but that's another subject for another forum.

said by EGeezer:

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I think it is significant that Kevin and Nancy have been quite responsive in the problem encountered by the OP and should be a good indicator of their commitment to the users of their product. folks like them, Blake M of LinkLogger and others who frequent this forum are welcome differences to the outsourced scratchy VoIP phone script readers and tortuous support processes of many so-called "industry leaders" (anybody called Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo DSL business support lately? )

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Definitely. One of the many reasons I hang around this place!

CompUSA sucks. I'm NA and spend O $200,000.00 a year on IT parts and software. No Soup for Comp!! All because I received a CD holder as a Christmas gift. Well it was very larger and it didn't fit. So I took it back after Christmas, around Jan 2 or 3. Purchased in early Dec. They would not take it back, 1 day past 30 days. I ask for store credit, Nope. Ask for manager, no again. I was try to be nice about it too. I was ask to leave the store!! Thanks Compusa in Columbia, MD. You are loosing about $5-10k a year because I don't shop there anymore. LOL!!

I emailed Boclean sales 2 weeks ago and haven't received verification that my Compusa purchase is in their database. Have you had any luck?

At this time, we can only verify CompUSA customers who purchased 1 July to 31 Aug 2004.

Sorry, it takes that long to get the list. I expect to have the Sept list by the end of this month.

There are steps being taken to accelerate the process which I hope will be working by the beginning of next year (it's not too far off, yunno!) if not sooner.

Unfortunately, it's not anything I can control. It's the "price" for the discount, I guess.

Nancy McAleavey,

My Compusa purchase date was 7/28/2004. Ive sent all the info thrice to sales@nsclean.com. Let me know if I'm not getting you what you need. Thank you.