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neuge
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Vancouver, BC
reply to will2k

Re: BT slowdowns?

Interesting. Shaw called me today and told me that Xtreme-I is now 5 dollars cheaper (from $15/mo extra to $10/mo extra (I don't have cable TV)).

I just found this somewhat noteworthy. Maybe they realize that people will get angry at having to pay extra for what amounts to reduced service.


Mongoose018

@shawcable.net
reply to will2k
I called Shaw and emailed them ten days ago. They gave me a ticket # and I havent heard from them since. Strange no?

komal

join:2003-02-16
reply to will2k
Interesting, my download speeds keep decreasing, I'm on DOCSIS, and I've been getting 2700+ consistently until just a couple of weeks ago, maybe longer, I only realized it now because I started running speed tests again. Now, even on the shaw speedtest I am getting 2000kbits down and 376 up, I find that pretty stupid, my upload is about 100 kbits off what it should be, and my download speed is 700 kbits off of the norm, and a megabit below the DOCSIS max (though I know I'll never reach that so don't try pointing out to those noobs who were about to). I'm starting to get sick of this very quickly, if things don't improve, if halo 2 keeps taking this long to find games, and if my much worsened ping keeps worsening(noticed in online gaming, servers on my favourites list that I usually get low pings to are now 130+ms), then I'll switch to MTS, those guys get 2 megabits now, but their speeds are constant, and their pings are better.


emmpeethree
Twizzling Flagella
Premium
join:2001-04-13
Richmond, BC

1 edit
reply to will2k
Click for full size
ok, this is not an anomaly because its jumping from 20-40 (last week its gone no higher than 10-15 for me)

have they raised the cap, or removed it?

not sure because my internet is so damn slow i can hardly tell a difference
--
Name another North American suburb of over 165 000 people which STILL doesn't have a CO close enough for many to get DSL! (ITS NOW AVAIL AFTER 5 YEARS OF WAITING!)

shawsux2

join:2004-11-10
Surrey, BC
reply to will2k
mine has been jumping from 10 - 140 kb/s....upload has even gone up to 40 but thats the highest ever...it gets a spike in speed then slows down..then gets a nother spike and so on..bte i am not on extreme service. Upload still sux ass -.-


mongoose018

@shawcable.net
Today was the first day in about 2 weeks that my d/l speed reached 100k u/l still tops out at 5k though.

helphelp6

join:2004-11-11
said by mongoose018:

Today was the first day in about 2 weeks that my d/l speed reached 100k u/l still tops out at 5k though.
nothing change to me indeed.

still only getting 0-6k d/l and 0-10k u/l in BT


Domo-kun

@shawcable.net
Click for full size
Ethereal BT Snapshot
This is a snapshot of (mostly) BT packets.

Notice how many of the packets have a checksum error...
It seems that along the way, something gets corrupted at the TCP layer. Possibly the datapayload gets chopped off along the way from a peer...


UserUser

@shawcable.net
I've heard rumours of peers run by some organisations that are surreptitiously chopping off bytes and passing on the data as being good, essentially poisoning every peer that connects to them and slowing everything down. That could be what you're seeing. You might want to try different .torrents to see if that is happening across the board for you, though I'd imagine it's not.

Tonight, I downloaded azureus (much nicer than btdownloadheadless.py, that's for sure and I'm pulling close to 200 kB/s on my download, and it's pretty stable.

Obviously, whatever upgrades Shaw's done in Kerrisdale over the last three days have worked wonders for my traffic.

I did however make a rather large change to my network settings: I opened up port 6881 incoming and tunneled it to my desktop. BitTorrent is now acting as I would expect it to.

So, my advice to all the people who are finding their poor bittorrent speeds are driving them crazy:

1. Different bittorrent clients implement the protocol differently. They have different timeout values for things like choking, snubbing, peer keepalives, and other small things that can have a big effect on your performance. It took me a while to tweak the official btdownload.py clients to something reasonable but I just gave up and downloaded azureus. It's open source, and cross platform, and although I did tweak some settings from the default, mostly it seems to be well configured.

2. For the love of god, open up port 6881 incoming on your firewalls and make sure it works! Azureus has a built in test for it, or you can try something like shields up! and tell it to scan port 6881 for you to make sure it's open.

3. BitTorrent works best when you LEAVE YOUR CLIENT ON AFTER YOU GET THE ENTIRE FILE. For the love of god people, this is about sharing with each other. Don't fucking leech. When you leave your bt running for a while afterwards, you help other people get the rare parts of the file.

4. If you are going to limit your upload bandwidth, BE REASONABLE. Shaw gives us about 512kb/s (about 55 kB/s) of upload bandwidth (for non-extreme users), and I'm sure we all know how badly our connections are when we max out our uploads (you can google the reasons for this if you're interested). Still, that doesn't mean that you can't set aside 15 or 20 kB/s for your upload, or even more if you're feeling generous. It helps _everyone_ trying to get the file. Keep in mind though that Shaw checks the ratio of upload:download traffic and usually uses that to determine whether or not to warn you about your usage. If you go to »secure.shaw.ca you can find your monthly usage, including daily stats for the past three months.

5. All that said-- we're all in this together. If you're going to be downloading and uploading large files, the best time to do it is after 1am and before 8am. Be reasonable in your usage, and for the love of god, keep your computer spyware and virus free as best as you can.

HTH,
UserUser

neuge
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Vancouver, BC

1 edit
reply to will2k
How's your upload doing?

I mean, I'm stably getting 450kB/s down in Azureus, but I can't upload at all.


UserUser

@shawcable.net
My upload's been fine, even when my download was crap. Sometimes, it's just the .torrent. Now that I'm using azureus, I loaded up some .torrents that I knew I was having trouble getting, and it turns out there were no goddamn seeds-- only peers with half the file. The reason I had zero downloads was that no one actually had the rest of the file!! Yeesh. I can't believe this whole "Shaw is limiting only bt traffic, waah waah" thing got so blown out of proportion. People just don't know how to interpret what they're seeing. I don't know who ShawInsider actually is, but I can tell you that at this point I'm pretty sceptical that Shaw's ever installed these switches. Wait until they've upgraded the network in the GVRD and we'll see what happens. It's also possible that Shaw did start installing the switches, but has backtracked now that enough people have made waves, and they're segmenting nodes instead (the right thing to do). When I talked to tech support, and I mentioned the rumours about the traffic shaping, I could hear the tech rolling her eyes I think they're taking a beating because of this. The rumour even got syndicated to boingboing as fact. I can't imagine what would have happened if /. picked it up...

Cheers,
UserUser

SlyckTom

join:2004-10-25
Jericho, NY
If it was just a few people experiencing this, I would agree it may just be a torrent or two. But when 30 pages exist regaring slow uploads, something is up....


cooljie

@shawcable.net
reply to will2k
useruser, are you working for shaw? The bs you talked about is pretty much common knowledge. You are blaming on bad torrents/clients not opened port for the slowdown? Thats phuking absurd.

Many people, including me, countless who posted here, and all my friends, and my friends' friends that are using shaw in the greater vancovuer area are still suffering from horrible speed. I wonder why?

Before Oct 30th, I was able to download at 200 while ul at 55kbs (on an extreme connection) NOwdays, I am lucky to have 50kbs dl speed from not well seeded files. As for ul, I can never get a total ul speed or more than 10. This is forcing me to become a leecher.

Stop spreading lies and rhetoric here, you are not welcomed.

sedination

join:2001-07-03
reply to UserUser
Useruser, I'm in the Kerrisdale area as well and my bittorrent downloads have been crippled tremendously for the last two or three weeks. Before, I could get speeds at hundreds of kB/s, but just yesterday for example I was downloading a well-seeded torrent with my max upload at 80kB/s and I could never upload past 10kB/s...average was about 4-5kB/s. And yes my ports are opened and all that junk. So the problem is very real.

My friend, however, who lives around Hastings and Boundary is not experiencing any problems so certain people in Vancouver are unaffected I would assume.

komal

join:2003-02-16

1 edit
reply to cooljie
Sounds like either useruser made a mistake with his own settings, and is assuming that everybody made the same mistake, or that he's a shaw employee. Maybe here to fight the telus guy?


604slowbt

@142.35.x.x
reply to UserUser
My friend at shaw told me they were doing upgrades too.

However it's ONLY my BT stuff that is slow. Internet in general is fast. I've done speedtests and they're consistent with what I-Extreme promises. Downloading things from i.e. download.com is fast.

ONLY BT IS SLOW.

komal

join:2003-02-16
said by 604slowbt:

My friend at shaw told me they were doing upgrades too.

However it's ONLY my BT stuff that is slow. Internet in general is fast. I've done speedtests and they're consistent with what I-Extreme promises. Downloading things from i.e. download.com is fast.

ONLY BT IS SLOW.
We know that, I think we discovered that in like the first 2 pages.

reply to xsmirage
I agree this problem has been since late Oct early Nov! I'm a techie and have tried everything in my power... diff BT clients, no router, diff ports, no sp2 for xp, DIFF PC!, hard coding an IP instead of using the DHCP one from Shaw. NO CHANGE!! I spoke to tier 1,2,3, got Tier techs name and he said they are aware of the issue and he can assure me they ARE NOT throttling whatsoever. Strangely I believe this for 2 main reasons.. 1) A few of my friends are not affected at all and 2) the amount of work and $ involved to actually bandwidth throttle is huge!! Not worth their time... I think it's hardware related... COME ON NETWORK TECHS, DO YOUR JOBS!!!

Grrr
-A pissed of Shaw client looking to move to Primus Canada.


the_truth

@shawcable.net
reply to will2k
As I've stated countless times, but again I must:

Since July 2004 I have been unable to UPLOAD any sufficient data (meaning more than perhaps 0.1 kb/s, and that's after stalling, it's not continuous) using ANY P2P software. Can you understand this, I said ANY P2P software. This means eMule, this means WinMX, this means Soulseek....etc. I have used P2P software since the Napster days and I think I know a little bit about how things should work.

The only reason this entire issue has come to the forefront is because of Bit Torrent.

I started a thread about this months ago and was brushed off with the usual "oh you must have a virus or a worm (sic) or this or that...."

How funny it is.


herbrt

@nwconx.net
reply to will2k
I dont have shaw internet, i never liked it. They recently cut off our service to their overpriced worth-shitall cable line though. Good for them. Shaw sucks >:-(


ihateshawmorethanu

@shawcable.net
reply to will2k
I am in east van and my emule started to get really crappy around late october like you guys. The funny thing is that kazaa lite still downloads at amazing speeds while bt and emule are basically killed. Also, a friend of mine who lives two blocks away can stilll use bt and emule without slow down. This suggests that shaw is only slowing down some users. I have extreme-i and have only been able to download 4 gigs this month - that is unacceptable. If shaw doesn't fix this in 2 weeks i am switching to telus. I don't pay 50 bucks a month just to surf the net.


UserUser

@shawcable.net
Hrm, well I appreciate the flames from all y'all because I know whereof I speak, and it's kind of funny to see you guys talk shit out of your ass.

I don't work for Shaw, but I sure as hell like them a lot more than I do Telus. Look folks, cable plant service will always be better than xDSL service. Always. Simply put, there is more potential bandwidth in HFC network technology than xDSL technology. Period. So go ahead and switch to Telus. But cable is better.

I'm not surprised that it's mostly Extreme service users who are having problems. The cute-sounding tech I talked to said that a lot of the upgrades being done right now are so that Extreme users will get their "Extreme" speeds. Personally, I don't see the point of the Extreme service-- the regular service is plenty fast for anything you'd care to do. Look, if I were you, I'd wait until all of the upgrades are complete and then I'd see what's the deal. At least, you can downgrade to the non-Extreme service until late December and see if speeds are better at that time.

But make no mistake, I still think that Shaw is not purposefully throttling any kind of traffic. The hard evidence is just not there.


Why Shaw

@qltinc.com
reply to xsmirage
I will. I am serious about it.

Msg me back and we'll be in touch!


UserUser

@shawcable.net
reply to sedination
sedination: where in the Kerrisdale area? The work done early-morning on Wednesday was between King Ed. and 52nd and Dunbar and W. Boulevard. I don't recall where exactly in Surrey work was done at the same time, but there was work done there too.

What operating system are you using? What changes, if any, have you made recently to your computer or network? Have you installed any new software recently? Do you know anyone else _in your neighbourhood_ who has the same service level, and is seeing the same problems, or no problems? Have you tried multiple .torrent files? Files like the Fedora Core 3 release that are pretty much guaranteed to be well-peered and -seeded? Are you sharing your cable modem with other people, like housemates? Are they bt users too?

shawsux2

join:2004-11-10
Surrey, BC
reply to will2k
user user you said extreme service is pointless? it is right now but b4 when you d/led off BT at hella high speeds it was worth it but no with shaws BT probs its pointless yep..

cause some people like me DL things that are 4 gigs up. now i cant even download 2 gig files waiting 30 hours


UserUser

@shawcable.net
shawsux: I never said I had the Extreme service. I don't have it. My downloads sucked on ONE .torrent because I'd already downloaded all of the file-- no peers had the rest of the file. Most of the other .torrents I've tested were fine-- particularly the FC3 release. Did you not read my very first post, where I mentioned I have a Terayon modem, and explained all of this?

My bt upload speeds have always been fine, I've never said otherwise on this forum.

Look, there is no hard evidence that Shaw is shaping bt traffic right now. This is what we know: Shaw is doing work on the DOCSIS network for their Extreme users. The people with the most problems are Extreme subsrcibers. For every person here complaining about their speeds, there is another person who's not having so much of a problem. I'm sorry, but there's just no hard evidence that Shaw is limiting bt traffic, and only bt traffic, for all users. The bt protocol is complicated, there are a lot of different clients out there. There are all kinds of things that can affect your network performance. How much do you _know_ about computer networks? Tell me where I can find the .torrent file you're talking about. I'd be more than happy to see how it works for me.


justin
..needs sleep
Australian
join:1999-05-28
kudos:15
Reviews:
·iiNet

2 edits
the hard evidence is that when an employee posted that they were traffic shaping, they threatened us with a lawsuit unless this "proprietary" info was removed immediately and the employee identified.

If the employee was just a user making stuff up they would not reach for their lawyers.

I don't know how much more hard evidence you need. Or maybe you didn't read the topic and just came in guns blazing because you hadn't configured your own BT client right until now.


UserUser

@shawcable.net
Justin: Have you read my posts? I acknowledged the possibility that they've been traffic shaping, and I supplied an argument as to why they might be reversing their decision. My statements have been clear: Shaw's not limiting everyone in a blanket way.

I think the real question you need to ask is, if they _are_ in fact shaping bt, or other p2p, traffic, why are they doing it for only some users, in some neighbourhoods? And for seemingly only Extreme users? It's absurd. This is likely a stopgap measure in the heaviest traffic areas until the network can be properly upgraded.

Also, you guys should post a PDF scan of the cease-and-desist letter, or a text of the email (with full headers).


Switching next month

@shawcable.net
reply to justin
what edvidence do you need? a picture of shaw employ caught in work of implementing the thorttling device?

for all of us, knowing that same bt works fine for all adsl users, and does not for all GVRD shaw users is enough.


nfx
The Wire
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Vancouver, BC
kudos:1
said by Switching next month:

for all of us, knowing that same bt works fine for all adsl users, and does not for all GVRD shaw users is enough.
very true.
--
nfx