how-to block ads
|
|
Uniqs:
4849 |
Share Topic
 |
 |
|
|
|
BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Mozilla Firefox Requires EULA?? I just submitted this as a news item, but it's too important to wait to see if it makes the front page...
-------------------------
In a move approaching sheer insanity, the driving forces behind the widely touted Mozilla Firefox browser have every intention of requiring users to accept an End-User License Agreement (EULA) in order to be allowed to use the software -- just like the restrictive Microsoft EULAs so despised in open source circles.
Strangely, all involved in the project seem prepared to roll over and let it happen. If really true, this casts serious question on the Firefox project's motivations, on the recent "Spread Firefox" campaign, and the famous $250,000 NY Times ad.
One of the only two Google hits on the relevant Bugzilla item number reveals "Yes, Ben and I discussed these changes, and I agreed to them. They were requested by the publicity coordinators."
See post »NY Times?
in thread »NY Times?
Actual Bugzilla discussion at »bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=252679 ...
-------------------------
But this has GOT to be a joke or something, right? As I said in the other thread -- any thoughts, corrections, antidepressants?
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
 EGeezerSummertimePremium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:7
 ·Callcentric
1 edit | As Chester A. Riley would say... who's old enough to remember that phrase?
Looking at the Bugzilla you referenced, it seems to tie in to »Information security: How liable should vendors be in the liability aspect. Now there's a real world example of the liability issue as it affects volunteers, developers and their projects.
--
IEC703 DISK ERROR
ABEND | |
 mers2Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-20
USA
kudos:8 | reply to B
Having read through the discussion on the Mozilla site, it appears this would be more of a disclaimer of liability.
QUOTE:
"While Firefox is in it's current version state we have that stern warning, this is *Pre-release*, do not use for anything mision-critical, at-your-own-risk and
so on. But once Firefox reaches version 1.0, it will not be "pre-release" anymore. Unless stated otherwise, like in a formal EULA, certian implied warranties may be taken by users/corporations.
It's job is to make people think twice about filing a frivolous lawsuits against the Mozilla Foundation (as previous comments have pointed out). The EULA is not
there to make Firefox a proprietary program. It's to strengthen the position of the makers in relation to use of the product. In court, it really doesn't matter
who is right, it's whoever can keep their lawyers on retainer the longest who wins. The Mozilla foundation doesn't maintain a huge legal fund to fight an
artifically lengthened damages trail, last I heard." | | |
|
 Khaine
join:2003-03-03
Australia
1 edit | reply to B
Whatever they do, the EULA cannot be more restrictive than the MPL, as that doesn't make sense. I hope that they come to their senses and do the right thing, but with some of the decisions made over their lately you can't be sure
[Edit]I Posted this in the mozillazine forums, and I suggest that someone post it to /. Hopefully civil discussion on this will ensure that the Mozilla Foundation does whats in the best interest of the community [/Edit] | |
BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
1 edit | reply to mers2
And having perused the proposed EULA text, I think they've all gone stark raving mad.
»bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.···ion=view
[ may not ] modify or create any derivative works of the Product or documentation, including customization, translation or localization; (ii) decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for the Product (except to the extent applicable laws specifically prohibit such restriction, or the underlying ideas or algorithms of the Product; (iii) redistribute, encumber, sell, rent, lease, sublicense, or otherwise transfer rights to the Product;
Sorry, that ain't about liability! That's about control, and it goes against everything free software was supposed to be about. Once again Casssandra "Rich" Stallman is proved 1 Jillion % correct.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | KhaineBOT, I don't know much about the MPL, but I believe the Bugzilla thread groups it with the GPL as a REDISTRIBUTION license, not an end-user license.
This odious new EULA thing may or may not be compatible with the MPL, GPL, or both -- I don't know.
Which brings us to another issue -- is Fireweasel NOT tri-licensed like Mozilla proper, but merely dual-licensed? That is, no GPL license?
Here's the EULA text in its entirety -- the more I read the more ominous it seems. "Mozilla Firefox may automatically send information relating to the download and install process to Mozilla. Mozilla may use the information...."
"Features or additional services may be made available through the Product for a fee. Licensee agrees to be bound by any additional terms and conditions governing the use of such features or services..."
LICENSE AGREEMENTS
YOU MUST AGREE TO THE FOLLOWING LICENSE AGREEMENTS TO USE THE MOZILLA FIREFOX BROWSER AND ANY ACCOMPANYING SOFTWARE COMPONENTS. WHEN YOU INSTALL MOZILLA FIREFOX YOU WILL BE GIVEN THE OPTION OF INSTALLING ADDITIONAL COMPONENTS FROM MOZILLA AND THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS. THE MOZILLA FIREFOX END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT GOVERNS USE OF ALL OF THE COMPONENTS. TO USE MOZILLA FIREFOX AND ANY OF THE OTHER AVAILABLE COMPONENTS, YOU MUST AGREE TO THE MOZILLA BROWSER END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT. ALL OF THE ADDITIONAL COMPONENTS AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD WITH MOZILLA FIREFOX ARE REFERRED TO COLLECTIVELY HEREIN AS THE "COMPONENTS."
MOZILLA FIREFOX END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
Redistribution Or Rental Not Permitted
BY CLICKING THE "ACCEPT" BUTTON OR INSTALLING OR USING THE MOZILLA FIREFOX SOFTWARE OR ANY COMPONENTS, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND BECOME A PARTY TO THIS MOZILLA FIREFOX END USER LICENCE AGREEMENT (THE "AGREEMENT"), AS THE "LICENSEE."
IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU MUST NOT CLICK THE "ACCEPT" BUTTON, YOU MUST NOT INSTALL OR USE THE MOZILLA FIREFOX SOFTWARE OR ANY OF THE COMPONENTS, AND YOU DO NOT BECOME A LICENSEE UNDER THIS AGREEMENT.
1. INTRODUCTION. As used in this Agreement,"Licensor" shall mean Mozilla Foundation. The use of the Components shall be governed by this Agreement. In this Agreement, "Product" refers to the Mozilla Firefox browser and any of the Components that Licensee has elected to install. If more than one license agreement was provided for the Product, and the terms vary, the order of precedence of those license agreements is as follows: a signed agreement, a license agreement available for review on the Mozilla.org website, a printed agreement provided with the Product, an electronic agreement provided with the Product.
2. LATENT DISTRIBUTION OF COMPONENTS. The Components are installed through different mechanisms in order to ensure that the Mozilla Firefox download will be quick and convenient. In some cases the entire Component is downloaded concurrently with Mozilla Firefox and in others a small piece of software (the "Stub") will be installed initially with Mozilla Firefox that can then "call out" over the Internet to a web server and complete installation of the Component on your computer at a later time (i) during the installation process, (ii) when the Stub detects that you have available bandwidth or (iii) when you have requested use of a function that requires such Component.
3. LICENSE GRANT. Licensor grants Licensee a non-exclusive and non-transferable license to install and use for personal or internal business purposes the executable code version of the Product, provided any copy must contain all of the original proprietary notices. This license does not entitle Licensee to receive from Licensor hard-copy documentation, technical support, telephone assistance, or enhancements or updates to the Product.
4. RESTRICTIONS. Except as otherwise expressly permitted in this Agreement, or in another Licensor agreement to which Licensee is a party, Licensee may not: (i) modify or create any derivative works of the Product or documentation, including customization, translation or localization; (ii) decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for the Product (except to the extent applicable laws specifically prohibit such restriction, or the underlying ideas or algorithms of the Product; (iii) redistribute, encumber, sell, rent, lease, sublicense, or otherwise transfer rights to the Product; (iv) remove or alter any trademark, logo, copyright or other proprietary notices, legends, symbols or labels in the Product;(v) use the Product in any way that violates any Terms of Service or Privacy Policy that apply to Licensee or any laws; (vi) authorize or assist any third party to do any of the things described in this paragraph.
5. LICENSEE'S RESPONSIBILITY. Licensee may not use the Product while driving, operating hazardous equipment, or engaging in other forms of hazardous activities. Licensee may use the Product for lawful purposes only. Licensee hereby agrees to indemnify and hold harmless Licensor for losses incurred by Licensor or another party due to someone else using Licensee's accounts or passwords as a result of Licensee's failure to use reasonable care to keep such information confidential or as a result of Licensee's failure to use reasonable care while using the Product.
6. COMMUNICATIONS. Licensee is responsible for obtaining it's own Internet access, such as maintaining all telephone, computer hardware and other equipment needed for access to and use of the Product, and all charges related thereto. Any telephone or other communications charges incurred by Licensee to access the Internet, or any other Mozilla product or service are Licensee's responsibility, and if Licensee is accessing such services through a telephone line, Licensee should call it's local phone company to determine if the access numbers it has selected are subject to long distance or other toll charges. Also, Licensee's carrier, such as a wireless carrier, may charge service fees for web browsing and other services that require the use of airtime and wireless data services. Licensee should check with it's carrier to verify any such fees.
7. CHANGES TO THE SERVICE. Licensor has the right at any time to change, modify, add to or discontinue or retire any aspect or feature of the Product including, but not limited to, the software, hours of availability, equipment needed for access or use, the maximum disk space that will be allotted on Licensor servers on Licensee's behalf either cumulatively or for any particular service or the availability of the Product on any particular device or communications service. Licensor has no obligation to provide Licensee with notice of any such changes.
8. BROWSER DOWNLOAD FEEDBACK & PRIVACY. When downloaded and installed onto Licensee's computer, Mozilla Firefox may automatically send information relating to the download and install process to Mozilla. Mozilla may use the information for such purposes as improving the reliability of the download and install process and improving its services to users. The information may include, for example, the configuration of the Product downloaded and installed, conflicts or errors encountered during the download and install process, conflicts created during the download and install process based on the hardware configuration encountered, and/or success of the download and install process. No user identifiable data is included in the information sent to Mozilla.
9. ADDITIONAL SERVICES. Features or additional services may be made available through the Product for a fee. Licensee agrees to be bound by any additional terms and conditions governing the use of such features or services should it choose to utilize them.
10. LICENSEE REPRESENTATIONS. Licensee represents and warrants that it has the adequate legal capacity to enter into this Agreement, that it will use the Product only for lawful purposes and in accordance with this Agreement, and that it will not use the Product to violate any law, regulation or ordinance or any right of Licensor or its Licensors or any third party, including, without limitation, any right of privacy, publicity, copyright or trademark. Licensee agrees to indemnify Licensor, its Licensors, officers, agents, employees and directors for any damages incurred as a result of a violation of this paragraph.
11. FEES. There is no license fee for the Product. If Licensee wishes to receive the Product on media, there may be a small charge for the media and for shipping and handling. Licensee is responsible for any and all taxes.
12. TERMINATION. Should Licensee breach this Agreement, its right to use the Product shall terminate immediately and without notice. Licensor may also terminate this Agreement for a violation of any applicable privacy policy. In the event of any termination of this Agreement or Licensee's rights hereunder, all provisions of this Agreement except the License Grant (Paragraph 1) shall survive such termination and Licensee agrees to continue to be bound by those terms. Upon termination, Licensee shall destroy all copies of the Product.
>>13. PROPRIETARY RIGHTS. Title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in the Product, including but not limited to Licensor components and algorithms and access to the Licensor server complex, shall remain in Licensor and/or its licensors and other suppliers. Licensee acknowledges such ownership and intellectual property rights and will not take any action to jeopardize, limit or interfere in any manner with Licensor's or its licensors' or other suppliers' ownership of or rights with respect to the Product. The Product is protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and by international treaties. Title and related rights in the content accessed through the Product are the property of the applicable content owner and are protected by applicable law. The license granted under this Agreement gives Licensee no rights in or to such content. All trademarks used in connection with the Product are owned by Licensor, its parent or affiliates, or its licensors and other suppliers, and no license to use any such trademarks is provided hereunder. Licensee agrees that Licensor may use in any manner and without limitation all comments, suggestions, complaints and other feedback Licensee provides relating to the Product.
14. USE AND AVAILABILITY OF OPEN SOURCE CODE. Portions of the Product were created using source code governed by the Netscape Public License (NPL) and the Mozilla Public License (MPL). The source code for the portions of the Product governed by the NPL and MPL is available from »www.mozilla.org under those licenses.
15. INJUNCTIVE RELIEF. Licensee acknowledges and agrees that, notwithstanding any other provisions of this Agreement, its breach or threatened breach of this Agreement shall cause Licensor irreparable damage for which recovery of money damages would be inadequate and that Licensor therefore may obtain timely injunctive relief to protect its rights under this Agreement in addition to any and all other remedies available at law or in equity.
16. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. THE PRODUCT IS PROVIDED WITH ALL FAULTS ON AN "AS IS" BASIS. LICENSOR AND ITS LICENSORS AND SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES THAT THE PRODUCT IS FREE OF DEFECTS, VIRUS FREE, AND ABLE TO OPERATE ON AN UNINTERRUPTED BASIS, THAT THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE PRODUCT WILL MEET LICENSEE'S REQUIREMENTS, OR THAT ERRORS IN THE PRODUCT WILL BE CORRECTED, AND THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES THAT THE PRODUCT IS MERCHANTABLE, OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY, ACCURATE, FIT FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NEED, OR NON-INFRINGING, UNLESS SUCH IMPLIED WARRANTIES ARE LEGALLY INCAPABLE OF EXCLUSION. FURTHER, LICENSOR AND ITS LICENSORS AND SUPPLIERS DO NOT WARRANT OR MAKE ANY REPRESENTATIONS REGARDING THE USE OR THE RESULTS OF THE USE OF THE PRODUCT IN TERMS OF THEIR CORRECTNESS, ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, OR OTHERWISE. IN ADDITION, THE SECURITY MECHANISMS IMPLEMENTED BY THE PRODUCT HAVE INHERENT LIMITATIONS, AND LICENSEE MUST DETERMINE THAT THE PRODUCT SUFFICIENTLY MEETS ITS REQUIREMENTS. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN INFORMATION OR ADVICE GIVEN BY LICENSOR OR A LICENSOR AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY OR IN ANY WAY INCREASE THE SCOPE OF ANY WARRANTY THAT CANNOT BE DISCLAIMED UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. LICENSOR AND ITS LICENSORS AND OTHER SUPPLIERS HAVE NO LIABILITY WITH RESPECT TO LICENSEE'S USE OF THE PRODUCT. LICENSEE BEARS THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO ITS QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE AND ASSUMES THE ENTIRE COST OF ANY SERVICE AND REPAIR. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THIS AGREEMENT. NO USE OF PRODUCT IS AUTHORIZED HEREUNDER EXCEPT UNDER THIS DISCLAIMER.
17. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT WILL LICENSOR OR ITS PARENT, AFFILIATES, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES, DISTRIBUTORS, LICENSORS, SUPPLIERS, AGENTS OR RESELLERS (COLLECTIVELY, "MOZILLA GROUP") BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY RELATING TO THIS AGREEMENT OR THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE PRODUCT, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, LOST PROFITS, LOSS OF DATA, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY THEREOF, AND REGARDLESS OF THE LEGAL OR EQUITABLE THEORY (CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE) UPON WHICH THE CLAIM IS BASED. IN ANY CASE, THE MOZILLA GROUP'S ENTIRE COLLECTIVE LIABILITY UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT SHALL NOT EXCEED IN THE AGGREGATE THE SUM OF THE FEES LICENSEE PAID FOR THIS LICENSE (IF ANY) AND FEES FOR SUPPORT OF THE PRODUCT RECEIVED BY LICENSOR UNDER A SEPARATE SUPPORT AGREEMENT (IF ANY) AND REPLACEMENT OF DEFECTIVE MEDIA OR PROVISION OF A REASONABLY SIMILAR PRODUCT, AS DETERMINED AT LICENSOR'S SOLE DISCRETION, NOTWITHSTANDING ANY FAILURE OF ESSENTIAL PURPOSE OF ANY LIMITED REMEDY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DEATH OR PERSONAL INJURY CAUSED BY THE NEGLIGENCE OF LICENSOR TO THE EXTENT APPLICABLE LAW PROHIBITS THE LIMITATION OF DAMAGES IN SUCH CASES. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, SO THIS EXCLUSION AND LIMITATION MAY NOT BE APPLICABLE. THE MOZILLA GROUP IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LIABILITY ARISING OUT OF CONTENT PROVIDED BY LICENSEE OR A THIRD PARTY THAT IS ACCESSED THROUGH THE PRODUCT AND/OR ANY MATERIAL LINKED THROUGH SUCH CONTENT.
18. DIGITAL CERTIFICATES. The Product supports certain cryptographic and authentication features, including but not limited to Secure Sockets Layer and S/MIME communications, that may require the installation and/or use of a digital certificate. Digital certificates are issued, validated, and revoked by third-party certification authorities ("CAs") over which Licensor has no control. Licensee is solely responsible for familiarizing itself with the terms and conditions established by a CA for the use of, or reliance upon, its digital certificates, including but not limited to any obligation of Licensee to validate a digital certificate, maintain the security of a cryptographic key or password, or pay fees for certification services. Licensor has preloaded digital certificates of certain CAs into the Product in order to facilitate the recognition of digital certificates that such CAs have issued to persons, organizations, or devices (including software code). LICENSEE IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DECISION TO USE OR RELY UPON A DIGITAL CERTIFICATE, INCLUDING THOSE DIGITAL CERTIFICATES THAT LICENSOR HAS PRELOADED INTO THE PRODUCT. LICENSOR BEARS NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE VALIDITY OR ACCURACY OF ANY DIGITAL CERTIFICATE, OR FOR THE SECURITY OR INTEGRITY OF ANY TRANSACTION OR COMMUNICATION AUTHENTICATED BY A DIGITAL CERTIFICATE.
19. EXPORT CONTROLS. Licensee agrees to comply with all export and import laws and restrictions and regulations of any United States or foreign agency or authority, and not to export, re-export or import the Product or any direct product thereof in violation of any such restrictions, laws or regulations, or without all necessary approvals. For example, Licensee may not export or re-export any commodities, software, or technical data received from Licensor, or any direct product of such commodities, software or technical data, to any proscribed country, party, or entity listed in the applicable laws, regulations, and rules of the U.S. Government unless properly authorized. As applicable, each party shall obtain and bear all expenses and responsibility relating to any necessary licenses and/or exemptions with respect to its own export or re-export of the Product from the U.S.
20. HIGH RISK ACTIVITIES. The Product is not fault-tolerant and is not designed, manufactured or intended for use in environments in which its failure could lead directly to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapons systems ("High Risk Activities"). ACCORDINGLY, LICENSOR AND ITS LICENSORS AND OTHER SUPPLIERS SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIM ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR HIGH RISK ACTIVITIES. LICENSEE AGREES THAT THE MOZILLA GROUP WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIMS OR DAMAGES ARISING FROM THE USE OF THE PRODUCT IN SUCH APPLICATIONS.
21. U.S. GOVERNMENT END-USERS. The Product is a "commercial item," as that term is defined in 48 C.F.R. 2.101, consisting of "commercial computer software" and "commercial computer software documentation," as such terms are used in 48 C.F.R. 12.212 (Sept. 1995) and 48 C.F.R. 227.7202 (June 1995). Consistent with 48 C.F.R. 12.212, 48 C.F.R. 27.405(b)(2) (June 1998) and 48 C.F.R. 227.7202, all U.S. Government End Users acquire the Product with only those rights as set forth herein.
22. MISCELLANEOUS. (a) This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the parties concerning the subject matter hereof, which may only be modified by a written amendment signed by an authorized executive of Licensor. (b) Except to the extent applicable law, if any, provides otherwise, this Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, U.S.A., excluding its conflict of law provisions. (c) Licensee expressly agrees that jurisdiction for any claim or dispute arising from the use of the Product resides in the federal and state courts of the Commonwealth of Virginia and consents to the personal jurisdiction thereof. The foregoing provision may not apply to Licensee depending on the laws in Licensee's jurisdiction. (d) This Agreement shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods. (e) If any part of this Agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, that part shall be construed to reflect the parties' original intent, and the remaining portions remain in full force and effect, or Licensor may at its option instead terminate this Agreement. (f) The controlling language of this Agreement is English. If Licensee has received a translation into another language, it has been provided for Licensee's convenience only. (g) A waiver by either party of any term or condition of this Agreement or any breach thereof, in any one instance, shall not waive such term or condition or any subsequent breach thereof. (h) Licensee may not assign or otherwise transfer by operation of law or otherwise this Agreement or any rights or obligations herein. Licensor may assign this Agreement to any entity at its sole discretion. (i) This Agreement shall be binding upon and shall inure to the benefit of the parties, their successors and permitted assigns. (j) Neither party shall be in default or be liable for any delay, failure in performance (excepting the obligation to pay) or interruption of service resulting directly or indirectly from any cause beyond its reasonable control.
Mozilla Firefox EULA
rev. 06/07/04
******************************************************************************************** *******************************************
This is apparently an old version of the proposed EULA, but it sure seems to indicate intent...
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
mers2Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-20
USA
kudos:8 | reply to B
said by B:And having perused the proposed EULA text, I think they've all gone stark raving mad. » bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.···ion=view[ may not ] modify or create any derivative works of the Product or documentation, including customization, translation or localization; (ii) decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for the Product (except to the extent applicable laws specifically prohibit such restriction, or the underlying ideas or algorithms of the Product; (iii) redistribute, encumber, sell, rent, lease, sublicense, or otherwise transfer rights to the Product;
Sorry, that ain't about liability! That's about control, and it goes against everything free software was supposed to be about. Once again Casssandra "Rich" Stallman is proved 1 Jillion % correct. -- B The original texts posted were Netscape's EULA and were at the beginning of the thread back in July as an example. The quote I gave was from Sept or Oct and was a response from the FF team. I won't get overly worked up until it's clear that the EULA will contain anything but a legal disclaimer. | |
Khaine
join:2003-03-03
Australia | reply to B
said by B:KhaineBOT, I don't know much about the MPL, but I believe the Bugzilla thread groups it with the GPL as a REDISTRIBUTION license, not an end-user license. This odious new EULA thing may or may not be compatible with the MPL, GPL, or both -- I don't know. Which brings us to another issue -- is Fireweasel NOT tri-licensed like Mozilla proper, but merely dual-licensed? That is, no GPL license? SNIP -- B Yeah the MPL may only be conisdered on the source code, but how can you lose rights by simply running code through a compiler ? How do my rights granted on the source code, suddenly disapear because I chose to get a precompiled version?
To me that doesn't make sence, as a binary distrobution, is just machine code. It may not be easy to read, but is still code.
I would not care if they added a simple disclaimer stating that the Mozilla Foundation accepts no liability for any possible damages, either directly or indirectly incurred through the use of this program. | |
BPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | said by Khaine:Yeah the MPL may only be conisdered on the source code, but how can you lose rights by simply running code through a compiler? You don't lose rights if YOU run the code through a compiler, but apparently you lose rights if you allow THEM to compile it for you. I THINK the EULA only applies if you download a binary from Mozilla.org. Sure it's machine code, but it's not the source code in which the program is written and from which Mozilla compiles it. Going by the original EULA proposal, they may already be including non-MPL code in Fireweasel binaries, but who knows.
I would not care if they added a simple disclaimer stating that the Mozilla Foundation accepts no liability for any possible damages, either directly or indirectly incurred through the use of this program.
I completely agree (though the FSF might not). I think that's basically what mers2 was getting at, too. So we'll have to see.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
TabletPremium
join:2003-01-15
Czech | reply to B
The EULA you've posted here has been marked as obsolete, someone had posted it in the bug report just as an example how EULA may look like. In the same bug report developers have distanced from this EULA saying the new EULA will be just about liability issues.
Everyone stay calm, it will end up fine  | |
1 edit | reply to B
said by B:In a move approaching sheer insanity, the driving forces behind the widely touted Mozilla Firefox browser have every intention of requiring users to accept an End-User License Agreement (EULA) in order to be allowed to use the software -- just like the restrictive Microsoft EULAs so despised in open source circles. Strangely, all involved in the project seem prepared to roll over and let it happen. If really true, this casts serious question on the Firefox project's motivations, on the recent "Spread Firefox" campaign, and the famous $250,000 NY Times ad. I have started to wonder, if perhaps Ben is some sort of closet Microsoft wanna-be, and feels like Firefox should be like IE, to the point of including a EULA as well, just "because MS does it that way". 
I hope that this isn't some bizarre and clever ploy, to take control of the (at the time, somewhat lagging in popularity) Mozilla project, with an eventual goal to propriatize and profit from it? I sincerely hope not.
Firefox is awesome, IMHO, and one of the best, most visible "open-source" projects to date. And yet, on the eve of their greatest hour, they risk flushing the reputation of the entire project straight down the toilet, IMHO, due to foolish licensing maneuvers. :|
Honestly, I can't fathom one legitimate legal reason to force end-users to agree to some form of restrictive EULA on the binary. Let's look at this logically:
Trademark - "Firefox" is a protected trademark of the Mozilla Foundation. A EULA is not needed to protect that.
Copyright - I admit that I haven't read the entire text of the MPL, but I was under the assumption that all of the developers signed their copyright over to the Mozilla Foundation, as part of the terms of their development contributions. That would, of course, mean that if the Mozilla Foundation wanted to totally close the source off, for future versions, then they could do so. They could also charge to license it commercially. But a EULA is not needed to claim or enforce copyright.
Liability - Ok, I'm no lawyer. But I was under the understanding that a "disclaimer of liability" only had to be prominently displayed, which could in fact be done via a forced click-through, without any futher attempt at an encumberance of the end-user by an adhesion contract.
Restricting disassembly, modification, distribution, etc., especially when you can obtain the source-code for free, is ludicrous in the extreme! (Well, that is, unless the end-user binaries are in fact trojaned, which I would hate to ever think that the FF dev team would even consider that. Perhaps I'll start compiling my own builds.)
Edit: Link to Mozilla MPL: »www.mozilla.org/MPL/ | |
 Pole883Premium
join:2004-01-27
Schenectady, NY
kudos:2 | quote:
Firefox is awesome, IMHO, and one of the best, most visible "open-source" projects to date. And yet, on the eve of their greatest hour, they risk flushing the reputation of the entire project straight down the toilet, IMHO, due to foolish licensing maneuvers. :|
Q.E.D.
--
Click Here To Write Me | |
| reply to Khaine
said by Khaine: Yeah the MPL may only be conisdered on the source code, but how can you lose rights by simply running code through a compiler ? How do my rights granted on the source code, suddenly disapear because I chose to get a precompiled version? The version compiled by Mozilla.org includes copywrited materials like the logo and the artwork. If you compile firefox for yourself you get different non-copywrited logos. Thats the only thing I can think of. | |
 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5 | reply to B
Front page news:
»Mozilla EULA? | |
1 edit | reply to Tablet
said by Tablet:The EULA you've posted here has been marked as obsolete, someone had posted it in the bug report just as an example how EULA may look like. In the same bug report developers have distanced from this EULA saying the new EULA will be just about liability issues. Everyone stay calm, it will end up fine I think, and of course hope, that mers2  and Tablet both have it pegged.
[edit: left out mers2 ]
--
**~~Infected/Hijacked? FAQ~~~Protect/Secure Your Box/Data FAQ~~~Security Forum FAQs~~** | |
EGeezerSummertimePremium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:7 Reviews:
·Callcentric
1 edit | reply to Tablet
When I read the thread, it was apparent to me that when restrictive elements were floated, the reaction was negative. The later the posts, the more it appeared they are simply trying to keep from being hammered by somebody who might want to drum up an expensive lawsuit against the people in the project, including John Doe suits against all developers, contributors and volunteers.
Agreed, after reviewing the bug report I'd not be concerned, but will be interested in the progress of the licensing and what the final looks like. In other words, Доверяй, но проверяй
--
edit - thanks for the topic B !
IEC703 DISK ERROR
ABEND | |
 BubbaGIT-R-DONEPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-19
St. Andrews
 ·DIRECTV
 ·Pickwick Cablevi..
·Comcast
| reply to B
"But this has GOT to be a joke or something" ? | |
| reply to B
The MPL is a source license, and doesn't necessarily apply to binaries produced from the source. Certainly, Firefox (and Mozilla Seamonkey) already contain non-MPL software, like the Talkback crash-reporting libraries. In addition, the MPL itself is not designed to be an end-user license for binaries, just as the GPL is not designed to be used as such, or as a contract (according, at least, to the authors of it).
I'm by no means speaking for the Mozilla Foundation, but I second Tablet's call for actual EULA text and analysis before the accusations of selling out or violation of licenses are thrown around by the handful. (In general, when someone says "I haven't read the license, but", you should probably not take their analysis very seriously. The Mozilla Foundation does not require copyright assignment for contributions, as is not difficult to determine from 5 minutes of research.)
Mike
shaver@mozilla.org | |
BubbaGIT-R-DONEPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-19
St. Andrews Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·Pickwick Cablevi..
·Comcast
| Hey Mike....Welcome to BBR's Security Forum. It's not very often we get a Staff Member dropping in to post....even if they are token Canadian. | |
| Ugh, I need to update that blurb! 
Mike | |
|
