Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| reply to Steve32
Re: Intentional?
said by Steve32  :You can't expect it to be safe out of the box when it's two years old and new workarounds comes out almost everyday. Yes, you can and should. Otherwise you were ripped off by MS and their XP is faster and safer hype from 2 Years ago. It was never ready for retail even then. Do you have to apply workarounds to get your car to start? You missed that workaround on your brakes and ran into the back of the garage? LOL Workarounds are not something you should have to do to ANY OS. said by Steve32 : It was "semi" safe out of the box 2 years ago, today it is not. That's why it's supposed to be updated. So are you supposed to get updated air bags in two years because your two year old car didn't have them?? LOL You don't know how many people reinstall from an original XP CD when the kids or even the parents crash the system and those are not SP2 CDs, so in the real world Microsoft should ship XP to every owner and tell them to destroy the unsafe CD. And they should admit it wasn't ready when released as it is the most easily hacked OS to date from MS. Car manufacturers have to fix defects, but MS doesn't?? Baloney. Upgrades != Security Fixes. XP is not a secure OS. |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO
| Your analogies are silly. Were I to use your logic, I'd say that yeah, I have to apply a workaround to get my car to start. That comes in the form of a mechanic doing preventive maintenance. My vehicle needs "updated" all the time - it's called an oil change.
Furthermore, I guess I should expect that the measures taken in 1970 that kept a vehicle from being stolen should still work today? Much like the car thieves who come up with new ways or take advantage of "holes" left by original design of a vehicle, crackers do the same with software. Therefore, redesigns are in order, as are updates.
It's really not that hard to do and you don't have to be a tech to do it. UPDATES ARE AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD... if a user finds this confusing, then maybe a computer is not for them. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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1970 442 W30
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| Maintenance is not an update. You know neither of OSes or Automobiles.
Can you download from GM an update to the Engine Computer so it accelerates faster and gets better mileage?? That would be an upgrade/update.
Changing the oil is maintenance. Do you remove the kernel from your OS and polish it then put it back for better performance?? Didn't think so. (unless you run *Nix)
Sounds very much like you fit the bill "as you describe it" for not owning a PC.  |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO
| It's your ridiculous logic/analogy, not mine. I won't argue over what maintenance or updates are..my point was that expecting any software developer to foresee every single threat is unrealistic. But nice try at changing the subject..
BTW It's amazing that you gleaned so much information on what I personally know from just one post. You should take your act to Vegas, they eat that shit up. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs: | Sensitive a bit? LOL |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO
| Things to do when you can't debate your point.
1)Try to change the subject
2)Accuse the other person of being ignorant of anything knowledgeable by way of...psychic powers?
3)Use said psychic powers to ascertain the other person's emotional state-of-mind.
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| reply to Apathy
said by Apathy : My vehicle needs "updated" all the time - it's called an oil change. So by your reasoning, whenever I defrag my disk, that is an upgrade?
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| reply to Apathy
said by Apathy :Things to do when you can't debate your point. My points are valid and true, you are the "making up lists of inane subjects not related to the facts" poster. Now you are invisible too. 
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"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
~~Herbert Spencer~~ |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds : Do you have to apply workarounds to get your car to start? You missed that workaround on your brakes and ran into the back of the garage? There is a fatal flaw in the breaks of every car with power breaks that if someone cuts your break lines the breaks don't work. GM knows this but fails to protect the break-lines from every hacker with a knife. They implemented a meager patch several years ago whereby the break system consists of 2 semi-independent systems which can each function if the others lines are cut. Unfortunately this system is flawed because:
A. the system works at reduced functionality if either is broken
B. every hacker now knows to cut all the break-lines to defeat the measure
C. Current car owners cannot update to the new system without buying a new car.
Well see unfortunately for your car analogy there aren't gremlins popping the hood of your car every couple of days trying to figure out a way to make it stop working.
And we're not even gonna talk about 1st generation air bags which can potentially kill or maim certain individuals.
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Attention all decks! Brace for whining! |
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Apathy
Premium
join:2004-09-01
Saint Louis, MO | reply to RayW
No Ray, it's not.
Any more pointless questions? |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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1970 442 W30
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| reply to Combat Chuck
Actually it was before power brakes and it's not just GM, it is ALL Cars out there and it had to do with single cylinder M/C on a single circuit drum brake system and/or Disc/Drum system (aka single piston brake m/cylinder and system). What do you suggest to replace the flexible brake lines with? Even stainless steel covered brake lines are rubber inside and still can be cut with side-cutters or even punctured with an ice pick to make them leak so the master cylinder will still drain. What is your solution that is flexible so that the wheel (and the disc and caliper) can turn and travel properly up and down as needed??
Power Assisted brakes are for people with weak legs so granny/grandpa, so that petite people that are not as strong as big boned people and so that the disabled can still drive and power brakes only increase the fluid pressure with less leg pressure being needed, PB in of itself does not add to the safety effectiveness of having a dual chamber master cylinder split system (aka dual circuit brakes) with half being the front brakes and half being the back brakes over a single circuit system and PB is not there for cases of a line failure in one of the 2 separate system circuit lines or one of the two master cylinder piston seals. PB is just to assist the driver in creating effective braking with little effort compared to manual brakes. Dual circuit brakes are much safer than any single circuit brake system. That is nothing new as it was 1967 when dual circuit/dual piston/dual reservoir brakes were first required.
»www.findarticles.com/p/articles/···12597864
...split-system master cylinders became mandatory for the 1967 model year. The GM X car had the split braking system (dual circuit brake system) setup changed to an X system as in the Right Front and the Left Rear was one part/chamber of the master cylinder and the Left Front and the Right Rear was the other part/chamber in the master cylinder. That was tried to help spread the leftover braking load front to rear in time of failure of one circuit and it was found not the way to go in the end. It was a failure much like the rest of the X-body line.
Brake Warning System (Required in 1970!!)
»www.musclecarclub.com/library/te···es.shtml
The brake warning system has been required standard equipment since 1970, and is connected to the master cylinder. It monitors differences in pressure in the brake lines of the two hydraulic sub-systems, and alerts the driver with a light if an imbalance occurs. When you turn the key to the Ignition position, the brake warning light on the dash comes on during a "self-test". You should not drive a car if the warning light does not come on during the startup self test.
The brake system is divided into two sub-systems to increase safety. A pressure differential switch, connected to the warning light, is positioned between the two. If a major leak occurs, and therefore pressure in one of the lines is sharply reduced, pressure from the other side forces a piston to move, activating the pressure differential switch and turns on the dashboard warning light. 1966 Dual-cylinder brake systems are introduced by Wagner, based on a concept it had patented in 1926.
»www.brakewarehouse.com/brkewrhse···ehistory
Cars get recalled when there are manufacturing errors or safety defects. Everyone with an XP CD should be in a recall from MS and they should get a full XP SP 2 CD sent to them "Free of Charge" to replace the defective earlier releases of XPee. If MS won't do it, then perhaps a "Class Action" of some sort will be needed.
Air bag setups were recalled and repaired/updated/replaced, but not XP.
Your point? |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs: | reply to Apathy
Thought you would say maintenance was an upgrade in one case and not the other.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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Plldwnyrpnts
join:2003-04-19
Chicago, IL
| reply to Doctor Olds
Your points aren't valid. Everything in life needs to be kept up. You leave it to rot, you end up with crap. Don't paint your house. Don't fix the roof. Don't patch your OS. Now THOSE are GOOD points.
You guys want to bash MS for all of the holes that are found in their software like no other software has holes in it. Jeez..... (no I don't need to give examples)
Instead of complaining about the problem you should be trying to teach people how to fix them or "keep them up." |
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Plldwnyrpnts
join:2003-04-19
Chicago, IL | reply to RayW
Defragging your drive would be like vacuuming your car. Buying new rims would be an upgrade. Changing the oil is an update.
I love analogies.:D |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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1970 442 W30
clubs: | reply to Plldwnyrpnts
said by Plldwnyrpnts :Your points aren't valid. Your post is invalid. |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to Doctor Olds
When all else fails post gobs of information that is totally irrelevant to the situation and then pretend it proves your point.
If I would have read on to some of your posts below this branch I wouldn't have bothered replying to you because I would have realized you are one of those hard headed, believe what I want to types that likes to make issues as confusing as you possibly can to make it so no one can argue against you. When people point out flaws in your reasoning you turn the stereo up louder (this is not an invitation to post a long triste on how stereo is in fact referring to having 2 speakers and not a type of self contained player and amplifier combo) so no one can effectively argue against you.
BTW, rubber tubing is only used because it's simple, cheap, and people aren't running around trying to figure out how to break cars just so they can be recognized as a haxor.
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Attention all decks! Brace for whining! |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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| said by Combat Chuck :Attention all decks! Brace for whining! Wow. NOT
An upgrade/upgrade and regular maintenance are vastly different and if you read the top of the post it's obvious it was to a specific poster who did NOT know the difference.
Your post however is whining, but at least you are kind enough to warn the rest of us with your sig. |
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Steve32
join:2001-06-18
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Doctor Olds :An upgrade/upgrade and regular maintenance are vastly different and if you read the top of the post it's obvious it was to a specific poster who did NOT know the difference. Ford couldn't forsee a Firestone problem 10 years later, how in the hell is Microsoft suppose to keep up with live people that are morons for making hacks. Ford could of worked around their tire problem by choosing Goodyear, but didn't. Your argument is stupid. Cars have problems which is why they have recalls. So will all Operating Systems, and I do mean ALL. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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clubs:
| said by Steve32 :Ford couldn't forsee a Firestone problem 10 years later, how in the hell is Microsoft suppose to keep up with live people that are morons for making hacks. Ford could of worked around their tire problem by choosing Goodyear, but didn't. Your argument is stupid. Cars have problems which is why they have recalls. So will all Operating Systems, and I do mean ALL. You are talking about a separate component failure (similar to talking about a badly written defrag that could crashes the entire system) versus the entire system failing to be secure. That is not just IE that is the problem with XP and removing or replacing IE does nothing to close all the open ports and other security issues in XPs complete system. There is no outside supplier in the Microsoft XP OS that caused the lack of security.
Firestone was an outside supplier to Ford and Firestone had to eat thousands of tires. Not to mention the loss of life lawsuits. If Mercedes had used Firestone in the USA, then that would still be an outside supplier causing damage to the total product and since XP is not based upon outside suppliers (closed proprietary source code) it not comparable in my eyes.
If an OS has problems, then MS should be forced to send XP SP2 replacement CDs to every person at "no charge" just like Firestone replaced defective tires before they actually came apart. Preventing future damages is the key.
Regards,
Doctor Olds |
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2kmaro
Think
Premium,ExMod 1 BC
join:2000-07-11
ColossalCave
clubs:
| reply to Doctor Olds
As opposed to debating on what's valid and what's not, perhaps we should focus back on the test conducted.
First: It was an unpatched out-of-the-box copy of XP. As I recall, one of the first things that is tossed at a user once they install XP is an offer to go check for current updates. Every wise and informed user should do that and can be expected to do that. The careless, uneducated and uninformed may not.
I would consider this a more valid test if it were conducted with an XP system with all patches/updates, including SP2, installed and left at their default settings. Consider that an out-of-the-box XP setup, for just one example, has their own built-in firewall turned off. SP2 turns that around to default to FIREWALL=ON.
justin makes mention in another part of this thread that testing with SP2 a few months from now might be a better test. I'd recommend a "then and now" (or "now and then") test: test it with SP2 now and then go back in a few months and retest to see what holes in IE/Windows XP/SP2 have been found and opened up in those months.
One problem I think I see in Microsoft's security plan is that they appear to be very REactive as opposed to being PROactive. They fix things that are reported to them, but they themselves don't seem to be doing much in house to be the first to discover the vulnerabilities and potential exploits. If they don't have it already, they need to set up their own Xtreme-Hackers division with nothing to do but find ways to punch through the defenses in their mainstream products such as Windows, Office, and their various server products.
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Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. Barry LePatner |
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