dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
9579

the_truth
@telus.net

the_truth

Anon

Shaw President admits bandwidth throttling!

Peter Bissonet(?), President of Shaw communications, has admitted bandwidth throttling is taking place on their network.

This is now no longer heresay and speculation as the news audio file proves:

»vancouver.cbc.ca/nerd/po ··· cast.htm

Bit Torrent Woes: »vancouver.cbc.ca/nerd/te ··· _pod.mp3

This information was first posted by dopeboy:
»BT slowdowns in Greater Vancouver?

The MP3 file has the Shaw President clearly admitting what we have all speculated for months.

Welcome to the future of cable in Canada
TELUS
join:2004-02-16
TELUS

TELUS

Member

It's a good listen.

For those of you who can't wait or don't have access to MP3 playback or audio, here's the juicy bit.

Some higher-up dude from Shaw says that BitTorrent is sapping up to 90% of the backbone of Shaw.

Then he says that's there's technology to 'shape' [I forget the term the person used] the bandwidth on Shaw's lines.

Then the segment goes on to saying that people on blogs and stuff are accusing Shaw of forcing people to buy premium services due to this.

That's the gist of it.

If anyone from Shaw and Telus can give a figure on how much bandwidth the network transfers, that would help.
[Shaw has double the userbase of TELUS, but I doubt they transfer as much, seeing as how many TELUS users can easily double the transfer of bandwidth throughput]

Anyone want to write to the CBC/Tod Maffin about the throughput limit/crappy speeds with Shaw?

[They've throttled BitTorrent but speeds are crap. Why?]

Good for dopeboy for presenting the information and to the_truth for putting it to the attention of more people.
hades_2100
join:2002-09-14
Burnaby, BC

hades_2100 to the_truth

Member

to the_truth
This is cr*p! Why do I have an XTreme package if I'm watching my BitTorrent downloads trickle in at 16kb/s (that's over 10 torrents down!). I would definitely switch to Telus if that was an alternative, but it's not. If I want high-speed, it has to be Shaw. I am assuming that since 3Web is using Shaw's backbone, they are also affected by this thing?

hades
Expand your moderator at work

Shaw mistake
@qc.sympatico.ca

Shaw mistake to the_truth

Anon

to the_truth

Re: Shaw President admits bandwidth throttling!

That s a bomb.

I think a lot of people will leave shaw after they admit they throttle BT.

I think that was the only solution to save there network to fall apart.

But still they lie to people before finally admit they were doing it, not the best business pratice.
Expand your moderator at work
TELUS
join:2004-02-16
TELUS

TELUS to the_truth

Member

to the_truth

Re: Shaw President admits bandwidth throttling!

Tut tut.

There is still more misinformation about Shaw and TELUS.

I thought Shaw would quietly resolve this issue, but now it's up in the air, I hope Shaw doesn't pull a Coke and say that they're looking out for the best interest.

Can't see much in defending Shaw now.

If they throttled the normal service plan, that would be bad, but even the Extreme-I plan is messed up.
"Download 250 times the normal limit?" Pffft.

When was the last time Shaw's service was okay?
[Minimum 450KBPS/60KBPS without throttling over a large area]

Shaw's coffers are being filled up by the people who don't need a fast connection and high throughput.
If you want to direct your anger anywhere, you'll know where to hit them.
TELUS

TELUS

Member

Heh.
Forgot about something.

Anyone want to try an experiment?

If you are affected by the BitTorrent throttling, call up Shaw right now and ask about BitTorrent speeds and why it's has gone to crap.
If they give you a stupid/wrong answer, play an excerpt from the MP3.

Escalate to a supervisor or Tier two support and enjoy!

Thingamajig
Premium Member
join:2004-11-03
B.C.

Thingamajig to the_truth

Premium Member

to the_truth
I liked the new numbers Mr. Bissonett put forth. Its now 1% ot their subscribers are using 90% of the bandwidth. Now if that 1% were to go to another provider what do you bet their subsciber base would drop by about 20%.
One should forward the CBC & this thread link to all their associates with a Shaw address and perhaps others will see how Shaw surreptitiously installed these devices then have their staff deny any knowledge of them. Then they have the audacity to threathen this site with a law-suit to cover their bald ass lying. This is a company out of control! They are relying on everyone just accepting their fate. DO NOT ACCEPT THIS POLICY!

bad-Shaw
@csil.sfu.ca

bad-Shaw to the_truth

Anon

to the_truth
How 1% of user affect the whole shaw backbone? it is non-sense. Shaw just keep lying. If we don't stop shaw now, shaw will even bandwidth throttling any other protocols in future too. We should not let this go pass easily. We should spread this mp3 to all shaw customers and let them know what is shaw upto now.
donaldk
Premium Member
join:2000-10-19
Halifax, NS

donaldk

Premium Member

Assuming if Shaw had 1 million subscribers, 1% is 10,000 and then multiply that by 1Mbps upload, you get 10Gbps spread out across the country. Considering Shaw owns its own backbone this should be f*ck'n pocket change for them. If they have problems with that I would hate to see their network get a DDoS attack. If telus was here I would be tempted to pitch shaw, my phone company, tbaytel, is not the greatest and the only reason I have not gone to them is they use PPPoE and their system kicks you off (glitches).

exaction
@shawcable.net

exaction to the_truth

Anon

to the_truth
I like how Bissonet's analogy of choking bandwidth on P2P with putting signs up on a highway is extremely flawed. That's a smart president they have there running the company, he's an extremely intelligent and wellspoken man. He's obviously capable of understanding complex things like how to run a business serving over a million customers.

jarib7
End User
join:2003-04-06
Lake Cowichan, BC

jarib7 to the_truth

Member

to the_truth
From the AUP
"You may not run a server in connection with the Shaw Services nor may you provide network services to others via the Shaw Services"

"Users must ensure that their activity does not improperly restrict, inhibit or degrade any other customer's use of the Services, nor represent (in the sole judgment of Shaw) an unusually large burden on the network itself, such as, but not limited to, peer to peer file sharing programs, serving streaming video or audio, mail, http, ftp, irc, dhcp servers, and multi-user interactive forums. The guidelines for Bandwidth Usage/month for each service package are the following: Shaw High-Speed (with Xtreme-I) - 50 GigaByte; SOHO - 50 GigaByte; Professional - 70 GigaByte; Business - 100 GigaByte (combined download and upload). Business services which are combined with the Xtreme-I upgrade retain the stated Bandwidth Usage/month guidelines. The guidelines for acceptable web site traffic include 2 GigaByte/month for SOHO, Professional, and Business hosting packages. Residential Shaw High Speed and High Speed Lite services do not have specific guidelines of this nature as the Service is not intended for business applications. Shaw reserves the right to set specific limits for Bandwidth Usage and charge for excessive Bandwidth Usage for residential Services at any time. In addition, users must ensure that their activity does not improperly restrict, disrupt, inhibit, degrade or impede Shaw's ability to deliver the Services and monitor the Services, backbone, network nodes, and/or other network services."

Which part do you BT users not understand? You are affecting online gaming downloading and browsing for you neighbours. Unlimited does not apply to servers. It's spelled out pretty clearly in the AUP. No false advertising. Do you need a picture:)
jarib7

jarib7

Member

No problem:)

Liontaur
Lets Get Boincing Already

join:2001-11-03
Salmon Arm, BC

Liontaur to jarib7

to jarib7
Ok, let's expand this to the actual issue, it's not just bit torrent that's being throttled, it's all P2P apps I believe. Now let's take for example Kazaa lite which i've used a fair bit. You can set it up so it's not sharing files (hence not being a server) but it would also be throttled.

I don't see this as Shaw enforcing their AUP on servers. This is Shaw throttling P2P as it's bandwidth intensive and i'd have a lot more respect for them if they just had the stones to come out and say it.

Instead they denied it for what, a month? And then everyone finds out from the president on CBC radio? Why not email all their users and tell them?
TELUS
join:2004-02-16
TELUS

TELUS to the_truth

Member

to the_truth
jarib

That's pretty stupid.

Bandwidth is bandwidth.

You should be able to transfer as much data as within the acceptable use policy.
Shaw has an subjective clause that says if you stress the system, service can be terminated.

If you download a 1 megabyte file at maximum speed, that "stresses" the system and you can be terminated.
If you download a 700 megabyte file at maximum speed, that "stresses" the system and you can be terminated.

The length of stress is another matter, but Shaw can do whatever they want.

Maybe the online gaming community is affecting downloading.

For Shaw and their Extreme-I plan for "Major downloaders....." again, where Shaw allows you to download 75 times the normal/average user.
[The average user uses five hundred megabytes or so per month]

This is definitely irresponsible of Shaw.

As said by Liontaur, there should have been an official [press] notification of this.
Shaw has denied the throttling before and I'm pretty sure they're still denying that the problem exists.

Anyone still blindly supporting Shaw?

As everyone who has left Shaw due to poor service and people outside of Shaw have said, "If you can't deliver it, don't promise/advertise it."

However, in a business standpoint, Shaw's doing okay, I suppose.

Thingamajig
Premium Member
join:2004-11-03
B.C.

Thingamajig to Liontaur

Premium Member

to Liontaur
said by Liontaur:

Instead they denied it for what, a month? And then everyone finds out from the president on CBC radio? Why not email all their users and tell them?
I agree with sending this information to all users. Has anyone tried contacting the Georgia Straight?
The really stupid part of this story is Shaw support staff are either not allowed to admit it or they don't know whats going on. I'm leaning towards the no admission side. It would seem that the Lower Mainland is the only Shaw area being subjected to this B.S. at the moment. If they are successful here you know full well they will be subjecting all of their subscribers to it. Those of you not experiencing this had better get prepared as it ain't pretty!!

...a new QAM-tum theory : SHAW = BS for BT

jarib7
End User
join:2003-04-06
Lake Cowichan, BC

jarib7 to Liontaur

Member

to Liontaur
I agree that if it is being throttled it's not a good solution. Probably necessary in some areas. It's not an ftp or web server but still a server.I don't use it so I'll bud out.

btw I think BT is a great program and is here to stay
TELUS
join:2004-02-16
TELUS

TELUS to the_truth

Member

to the_truth
Eh.

Shaw Tower is built from money made from lies.
Fortunately, it's practically on the waterfront, so if there is any seismic activity, it may just sink into Burrard Inlet.

I think having supporters of Extra publication parading/protesting at Shaw Tower/downtown would have more of an effect.

[Extra is Vancouver's premiere alternative lifestyles publication]

Georgia Straight or The Terminal will both work.
Bandito
join:2003-01-23

Bandito to jarib7

Member

to jarib7
said by jarib7:


btw I think BT is a great program and is here to stay


I dont think so. Throttling from a business perspective improves the overall bandwidth for the "mom and pop" and home office user who just browses the net and checks email. For people that do any serious file sharing it's the dreaded beast. It was also slow down the "upgrades" due to user/bandwidth congestion.

Dont be surprised if other ISP's adapt Shaw's policy. This will satisfy Shaw's management and also the entertainment industry that's against P2P file sharing.

the_truth
@telus.net

the_truth to the_truth

Anon

to the_truth
|Telus wrote |:

"Shaw Tower is built from money made from lies.
Fortunately, it's practically on the waterfront, so if there is any seismic activity, it may just sink into Burrard Inlet."

Funny you should bring up Shaw towers. I'd be willing to bet you a year of a Telus 4.0 high speed server subscription that the folks living in that building will NOT be under the influence of Ellacoya

Thingamajig
Premium Member
join:2004-11-03
B.C.

Thingamajig to Bandito

Premium Member

to Bandito
said by Bandito:


Throttling from a business perspective improves the overall bandwidth for the "mom and pop" and home office user who just browses the net and checks email.
Anyone else see the correlation of reducing the bandwith for BT & P2P users and Shaw's soon to be released VOIP phone system!?!? Coincedience?!?!? I think not!!! Who is going to trust these dunderheads with their phones now?!? My wife spends a heck of a lot of time yakking on the phone, would she be cut off for excessive bandwidth usage or would they impose a cap in the future to once again avoid a system upgrade. Shaw has lost all credibility. Their out-right lying is just plain stupid.
Chrno
join:2003-12-11

Chrno

Member

You people just realized that Shaw lies? You should really head over to the TELUS forums. From time to time you will see people asking questions like "Will TELUS charge me hundreds of dollars per month for going over 5GB per month because I was told so by a Shaw rep.?" Yeah right...

Someone05
@telus.net

Someone05 to the_truth

Anon

to the_truth
This is extremely simple. You will notice that the main users affected by this are users in Vancouver and Calgary.

Gee, where do you think VOIP will be offered first? Calgary and Vancouver. No matter how you look at it, they will need to be able to ensure that VoIP packets take priority over everything else. And trust me, VoIP will be a big thing once released. There will be no comparison between Shaw and any other VoIP provider in Canada. Shaw has done their homework when it comes to VoIP. (Just don't ask how I know)

Thingamajig
Premium Member
join:2004-11-03
B.C.

Thingamajig

Premium Member

said by Someone05:

This is extremely simple. You will notice that the main users affected by this are users in Vancouver and Calgary.

Shaw has done their homework when it comes to VoIP. (Just don't ask how I know)
Is this the same Shaw company who's network two way operation sucks so badly in less than 10 years of operation they are reduced to throttling, accusing clients computers, utilising DOCSIS 2.0 before their network was built for it?!?!
Thanks but I've seen and experienced what their forward thinking philosophies are when it comes to Shaw having their homework done. I give Jimmy Shaw and the rest of his class a gigantic F.
quote:
Jim Shaw, Shaw's chief executive, said the telephony service will be rolled out in a few to-be-determined locations. While pricing has not been established, he said Shaw will not be offering a discount service.

"Our product is worth the money and you have to pay us for it," he said. "If you don't want it, there are other places you can go."
Don't want it ...and there I was...GONE!!!
MustardMan
join:2003-05-22
Sealand

MustardMan to the_truth

Member

to the_truth
As another poster (with no Shaw axe to grind) stated, if this is a problem for Shaw it is a problem for Telus. Telus does not have some magic solution to the P2P problem. They will eventually have to do some shaping too.

Saying, "since Shaw won't let me download my porn and ripped DVD movies from BT I am going to Telus" is not going to solve anyones problems in the mid to long term. You are just shifting the problem over to Telus which may enjoy a short term increase in subscriptions but they will eventually have to deal with the clogged pipes issue as well.
hesty
join:2001-09-16
Vancouver, BC

hesty

Member

Actually a lot of people have tried saturating their Telus ADSL with 24/7 maximum throughput. The result? No "excessive" bandwidth call, stable speed for the whole month. If Telus can do it, why can't shaw?
TELUS
join:2004-02-16
TELUS

TELUS to the_truth

Member

to the_truth
TELUS has secretly acquired the cold war era network infrastructure developed by the Soviet Union.
Sarke
join:2004-11-09
Canada

Sarke to hesty

Member

to hesty
said by hesty:

Actually a lot of people have tried saturating their Telus ADSL with 24/7 maximum throughput. The result? No "excessive" bandwidth call, stable speed for the whole month. If Telus can do it, why can't shaw?
Maybe because in Shaw's shared enviroment their cable TV and regular internet users suffer because of high-bandwidth users? Telus doesn't have those problems to worry about.

capdjq
Be Kind, Be Calm & Be Safe
Premium Member
join:2000-11-01
Vancouver

capdjq to the_truth

Premium Member

to the_truth
What puzzles me is that when I download smaller Files on BitTorrent its fast. But anything 1GB and over its 12-20 during daylight and 60+ at nights (late).