nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to RadioDoc
Re: Free enterprise?
hey RadioDoc, the U.S. is ranked 13th in broadband in the world and falling.
that's what the telco brand of "free enterprise" has brought us.
Although I guess it's good that the poor, misunderstood incumbents have concerned citizens like yourself standing up for them as they quietly go about buying decisions from state legislatures to stifle competition.
We're number 13! we're number 13! Go SBC! go Time-Warner! |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | I guess it's all about the race, eh? Screw the cost and who pays it.
Have a nice socialist life.
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I'm not the only cowboy in this one-horse metaphor... |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | what, again, is wrong with socialism? That said, I don't see anything "socialist" about this project. "screw the cost and who pays it" - are you stoned? This is the BEST possible way to finance such a project. It's not taking money from income taxes or property taxes, just from casino taxes. I just don't see how this could be bad. I'd love for Kansas City to do the same thing, but NorthKC has always been a step ahead of us in regards to 'net speeds. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Yeah I'm stoned if that makes you feel better. Sorry I just don't buy into the broadband socialism which is so pervasive here. If it is so great then people & businesses would be lined up to dump their own money in it regardless of what the big bad incumbents do or say. It isn't, they aren't. What is so hard to understand?
Build it and they will come...right. The only people "coming" are the government drones spending all that money.
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I'm not the only cowboy in this one-horse metaphor... |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Not sure where you get "Socialism" from not wanting your government bought off by mega-corps.
That term is bandied about too frequently.
There is a massive difference between advocating broad socialism and what's occurring here. |
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X
join:2003-05-27
Sacramento, CA
| reply to nasadude
Right on nasadude. I was about to type something in similar fashion, but now there is no need, because you really summarized what i feel  But ill expand a bit though: While the regular folk is paying 30+ bucks for broadband - the rich fatasses in control of those "poor, misunderstood" companies get to ride around in their 1+ million yachts and sponsor more brainwashing of the working man. And then... when time passes, you look - and you see US dropping more and more down from the lead. I understand, US has alot of people living in rural communities, but that does NOT justify all the money that huge corporations throw away to buy the politicians in power, and brainwash regular people who dont have enough time on their hands to actually go and look for the truth.
RadioDoc, you have a point, that the spin can go both ways. But the spin in this case can go probably only two ways: The big corporation way, and the small working man way. Which one are you? |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by X  :Which one are you? I'm a self-employed business-owner and commercial property owner who is tired of paying outlandish taxes for government pie-in-the-sky.
What is wrong with $1 million yachts? If you had one you'd certainly not be posting what you posted.
As for purchased politicians, that's how this country works these days. It may be wrong, but it has nothing to do with how stories like this are reported.
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I'm not the only cowboy in this one-horse metaphor... |
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justncredible
@rr.com
| I am the poor working man, and the truth is simple, big goverment taxing business to support bad ideas is why you don't get a big raise every year. Every dollar you see taken out of your paycheck is matched from the company you work for. Lower taxes on business means more money for pay raises, very simple and very true. Your support of this plan just screws you, it does not screw TW or big business. Your propety taxes will go up to pay for this plan, think about that. How do you think they will pay for it? 10 million dollars that is in the general goverment fund, that should be used for roads schools, or any of the already socialist money pits the goverment has forced upon us working people. Every single thing any of the forms of goverment buys comes directly out of your pocket. Every time a goverment sues a business it comes out of the employees pocket and the customers pocket. Look at the price of cigarettes, you could buy a pack for 1 dollar before the goverment sued them, now the customer is being raped, not the business. It is stupid to keep thinking you hurt anyone but yourself. Big goverment = BAD. |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
2 edits | A town of 5,000 people is "big government"?
There's something insincere and even ironic about how the two previous posters approve the methods these companies use to screw people and protect revenue....then offer largely unfounded predictions how some small town government - whose only aim really is infrastructure improvement - is going to ruin the planet. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Who is "approv[ing] the methods of these companies"? I just want these government pipe dreams to make sense financially so I don't end up stuck paying for revenue shortfalls like we end up stuck paying for everything else local governments get themselves into.
You didn't bother to answer my question, either. Here it is again to save you the trouble: If it is so great then people & businesses would be lined up to dump their own money in it regardless of what the big bad incumbents do or say. It isn't, they aren't. What is so hard to understand?
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I'm not the only cowboy in this one-horse metaphor... |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| reply to RadioDoc
quote:
I'm a self-employed business-owner and commercial property owner who is tired of paying outlandish taxes for government pie-in-the-sky
Which part of this is too much for anyone to understand? Don't go to the casinos in Missouri, and you won't be taxed for this project. Period. Nobody loses here-except of course the companies who charge too much and deploy too little. The gov't should be applauded for finding a creative way to pay for the project-you should be tickled pink as it doesn't cost in property or other taxes, but rather through casino taxes. |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | reply to RadioDoc
You're shocked private industry wouldn't pour money into something that would probably make only enough profit to keep itself functional and serve its purpose?
This is a revelation of some kind? |
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Unregistered user
@cofs.net
| reply to RadioDoc
So, if this is socialism, and it's bad, then how about these ideas:
Sell municipal water systems. They compete with potential private ventures, especially the bottled water companies.
Get rid of public transit. It takes business away from taxicabs, and if there's money to be made from running buses and trains, someone will do it.
Eliminate city trash collection. Granted, it's often contracted out to private companies, but cities have no business designating a carrier. Allow individuals to pick their collection company.
Eliminate public schools. Public education is paid for by tax dollars, which is unfair to people without children. If someone has a child, they can pay for their education.
Eliminate public broadcasting. Then, we might have commercial classical radio that can make money. Eliminating public television would make room for at least one more private channel in most areas, not to mention that PBS steals market share from commercial stations.
Sell parks to private entities, such as country clubs. Many people never go to parks, and they cost a lot to maintain. Private companies can do it better that inefficient parks and recreation authorities, and those who actually use them can pay the cost.
Can anyone think of any other things that are too socialistic (What a word!) for our country? |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| reply to RadioDoc
Yeah and we all know that in order for something to be a good idea a company needs to pour money into it just like they did when they built the original phone networks. Oh wait... that was paid for with tax payer money... and we all know what a "failure" that was.
You don't seem to understand that the government isn't providing broadband to people - they are providing a network for people to use broadband on, provided by private companies, just like they do with streets and municipal airports and so on. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by ppcpunk :You don't seem to understand that the government isn't providing broadband to people - they are providing a network for people to use broadband on, provided by private companies, just like they do with streets and municipal airports and so on. I understand it just fine. Find another way to pay for it. This ain't 1920 and there are plenty of alternatives already. ALL of the things you listed are tax-based. Many of these munis continue to insist they are not going to burden the local property tax base with their expense overruns. They are liars. It always comes back to the taxpayers.
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I'm not the only cowboy in this one-horse metaphor... |
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BBWEST
join:2004-09-05
Port Angeles, WA | reply to RadioDoc
Public Funding
Public funds all kinds of infrastructure like the road you drive your fat gas sucking SUV down that you wear out twice as fast as I do.
Is that socialism .......... |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to nasadude
Re: Free enterprise?
said by nasadude :hey RadioDoc, the U.S. is ranked 13th in broadband in the world and falling. that's what the telco brand of "free enterprise" has brought us. Although I guess it's good that the poor, misunderstood incumbents have concerned citizens like yourself standing up for them as they quietly go about buying decisions from state legislatures to stifle competition. We're number 13! we're number 13! Go SBC! go Time-Warner! And on our way to number 14 (then 15, 16, etc...).
And this discussion gets right to the cause. Government processes used to act for the good of the public, and develop policies to foster the public good. No more. Now government acts strictly in the benefit of those with the biggest purses, and try to justify it by alluding to questionable economic theories that this will somehow, eventually, lead to some benefit for the public. |
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k
@xx.charter
| reply to RadioDoc
This isn't 1920, but those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it. Under your logic, the government of the 1920s and earlier should have given the finger to the working poor and turn a blind eye the massive inequality in the distribution of wealth. Without the progressivists, child labor would still be legal, there would be no minimum wage, etc.
Sure, you can argue that access to information networks isn't the equivalent of having to work 80+ hours a week. But as you said THIS ISN'T 1920. This is 2004, access to information is a critical factor in making sure that America has a future. I'm tired of people who piss away the future just so the present can be a little bit rosier for themselves. |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| reply to garagerock
BRAVO for creative financing!!!
It is like using cigarette tax, alcohol tax....people choose to smoke, drive, etc...
And ya know what? People choose to use cable TV and broadband services. In 95% of the market there is zero CHOICE for cable TV. Wouldn't it be nice to have a choice? And if there WAS competition (I hardly recognize the word when speaking of cable TV) the prices might actually come down!).
Why shouldn't there be choice in this world for our services? And why must there be laws BANNING certain groups from participating in selling services (like municipalities) for broadband, cable TV and telephone? Why must only private providers provide these services? We are so far behind in providing affordable, technologically up-to-date services to the masses. If the muni can provide them why prevent them from doing so?
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| reply to RadioDoc
They take out bonds and repay them over 20 years with interest usually. What's wrong with that? They should only be done when a feasibility study - or a few of them - shows that they will work. You act as if municipal fiber can't work - you say they are liars it always comes back to the taxpayers - Well so far as I can tell not every municipal network has failed in fact I think very few have and only when the studies shows they never should have done it in the first place. |
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