odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Norcross, GA
clubs: | whatever it takes to bring these *uckers down. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Re: whatever it takes Laws and others on that pipe be damned, huh? | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA | Including sinking to their level or lower?
Sorry, but I'd prefer to get rid of spammers without compromising my ethics. | |
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 | markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: whatever it takes said by Jason Levine  :Including sinking to their level or lower? Sorry, but I'd prefer to get rid of spammers without compromising my ethics. How is it sinking to their level or lower? Your flooding there network with bandwidth..
They flood you with spam over the same network that they make thousands/millions dollars from hopeless people who buy the crap. Its a injustice of one not to fight back. You think Laws are going to stop spammers? think again. Every 1 spammer that gets caught, a dozen pop up in varying countries ready to take up the cause. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Re: whatever it takes There are often innocent parties sharing that bandwidth. | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA | Re: whatever it takes In every war, there is collateral damage. | |
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join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA | Re: whatever it takes if the collateral is the entire internet... it is a war i do not want to see. | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA | Re: whatever it takes It would never shut down the whole internet. The whole model the internet is based around redundency. | |
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MplsGuy
@209.32.x.x | By this logic, if a murder is known to be in a large city, it's best to just launch a nuke in there. Collateral damage can be expected, but its the price of justice. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| You're not just flooding *their* bandwidth, you're flooding everybody else's bandwidth too.
Somewhere I saw a comment that shortly after that site was brought up some 25% of backbones traffic was based on that tactic. I doubt the number was that high, but it was probably significant.
There are really not that many spammers out there ... but there are now a lot using trojans that make traditional methods of fighting spam like spitting into the ocean. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| You aren't just flooding their network, you are also flooding other folks who happen to be on the same network segment. If my ISP happens to be hosting a spammer (whether they know about it or not) and my website is sitting "next door" so to speak, then your flooding of the spammer's site might take down my site as well.
How would it be appropriate to take down my site just because the ISP I use also happened to be used by a spammer? And don't tell me that I should change ISPs. It's not always simple and there's no guarantee that any ISP I go to will be immune from collateral damage in the future. It's not a solution to keeping my site up and running, just a temporary patch until the spammer changes networks.
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| said by Jason Levine :Including sinking to their level or lower? Sorry, but I'd prefer to get rid of spammers without compromising my ethics. I'd rationalize it by saying you're giving them a taste of their own medicine.
Spam is effectively DOS'ing the ability to not check your inbox without having 100+ spamvertisements for vi/\gra.
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Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
Kazaa Is Spyware. Gator / Claria Is Spyware.
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 1186 | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA | Re: whatever it takes You are also taking out every website that is on the same network segment. Just because I happen to live next door to a spammer, is it appropriate to bomb my driveway as well? | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: whatever it takes said by Jason Levine :You are also taking out every website that is on the same network segment. Just because I happen to live next door to a spammer, is it appropriate to bomb my driveway as well? You've let them remain there, and you'd be part of the problem.
If you're not against spam, you're for it.
Either way, the spammers don't even deserve your defense.
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Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
Kazaa Is Spyware. Gator / Claria Is Spyware.
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 1186 | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: whatever it takes said by Nerdtalker :You've let them remain there, and you'd be part of the problem. I haven't let them remain there. My ISP may have or they may just not know that they are there just yet or they may be going through their process to warn the spammer before booting them. In any case, I, as a website operator, don't know what my network segment neighbors are doing and I really don't have time to worry about that.
said by Nerdtalker :If you're not against spam, you're for it. I'm definitely against spam, but I'm also against using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. DDoSing spammers just generates more network traffic and is illegal in and of itself. Bayesian filters are effective at weeding out spam without generating more network traffic. And education will help keep people from buying from spam. (Which cuts spammers' profits which makes it harder to make a living from spamming.)
said by Nerdtalker :Either way, the spammers don't even deserve your defense. No, but the sites that you take out as collateral damage do. They aren't supporting spam, they just happen to live next door to a spammer. If one of my neighbors on my block were to have been found guilty of fraud, should I be sent to jail too? Do I somehow bear some responsibility for the fraud that my neighbor committed even if I had never talked to him/her and didn't know what they were doing?
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
| Jason, I generally agree with you on most things, but there's a time when you have to fight back. You know as well as most of the people here, spam is not going to stop until something soo radical threatens their way of life.
It's time for a revolution to stop SPAM.
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"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius - - - - - - - - - - - Streamfire.net- - AIM - CoNFuCiUsNiCk | |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
| Re: whatever it takes I agree. While I contribute to the vigilantism problem, I do hope that the coming 'legal' technological fixes for spam aren't too far behind. There are only so many addresses you can ddos, and I'm running out of botnets, lol 
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Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Spam won't stop until no one buys anything from the spammers. Therefore, if we keep filtering out the spam using Bayesian filters and keep educating people not to buy from spam, then the spammers will eventually lose their profit motive.
said by technick :It's time for a revolution to stop SPAM. Actually, SPAM is a product by Hormel (which I find disgusting for other reasons). Spam is the unsolicited commercial e-mail that we all know and hate. (Sorry, being nit-picky now.  )
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
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