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cvrefugee
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Corona, CA
| Re: Wow said by Sebastian  :
o how wonderful.. 11 million downloads and probably only 2% are actually using it 
i wonder if it even paid off infesting 10,000 sites, with people trying to shove the browser down your throat. if people wanted it, im sure they can find it.
Wasn't it more like 10% or something? Also, IE comes with Windows, so if anybody is trying to shove a browser down your throat it would be Microsoft. | |
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Sebastian
Premium
join:2000-12-22
New Haven, CT
| Re: Wow said by cvrefugee :Wasn't it more like 10% or something? Also, IE comes with Windows, so if anybody is trying to shove a browser down your throat it would be Microsoft. i dunno, i don't usually pay attention to stats.. however, i knew this was gonna turn into an MS vs others ..
you do have a choice not to use the browser if you do not want to.. just like when you buy a new computer which comes with 30 gigs of useless software.. doesn't mean you have to use it.
--
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Wow Lets get this topic back to perspective here. You complained about people trying to shove Firefox down your throat. That was responded with the fact that Internet Explorer is shoved down everybody's throat that has a Windows operating system. So in essence your complaint about Firefox being promoted so prominently on many sites isn't that valid because MS does the same thing, only ten-fold.
No point in saying IE is necessary for Windows and "If IE weren't in there you couldn't..." kind of nonsense. The fact remains it's always there... in your face... more than Firefox. Just accept it. | |
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RDins
@attbi.com | It's 10% (on the high end, many say less then that) that are "non" IE.... that includes opera, the apple browser, netscape, moz, and firefox (netscape, moz and firefox ae basically all the same though). | |
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pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Cleveland, OH
clubs: | Re: Wow Um, ftp?
-Mike | |
| | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs: | Re: Wow Well then people would be complaining about that also on a strangle hold. | |
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jwsmiths4
Part Man, Part Mac
Premium
join:2003-10-25
Savannah, GA
| Simple you'd have gone to a book store - purchased a manuscript that contained the source for Fire Fox, opened notepad, typed it in, compiled it (fixed any typos) and then voila!
I use FF btw.
Seriously though if MS didn't include IE then more people would have to learn how to use terminal FTP clients to download stuff they wanted.
Justin | |
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rjackson
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-02
Ringgold, GA
clubs:
Host:
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| said by dadkins :If Microsoft didn't include a browser(IE), how would you have downloaded Firefox? ;) Like this.
firefly:~ rjackson$ ftp ftp.mozilla.org
Trying 2001:4f8:0:2::1f...
ftp: connect to address 2001:4f8:0:2::1f: No route to host
Trying 207.200.85.49...
Connected to ftp.mozilla.org.
Name (ftp.mozilla.org:rjackson): anonymous
331 Guest login ok, send your complete e-mail address as password.
Password:
230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> cd pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0/mac/en-US
250 CWD command successful.
ftp> get Firefox\ 1.0.dmg.gz
local: Firefox 1.0.dmg.gz remote: Firefox 1.0.dmg.gz
227 Entering Passive Mode (207,200,85,49,250,84)
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for Firefox 1.0.dmg.gz (9058286 bytes).
100% |************************************************************************************
**| 8845 KB 365.24 KB/s 00:00 ETA
226 BINARY Transfer complete.
9058286 bytes received in 00:24 (365.14 KB/s)
ftp>
(*) WARNING 1 long line(s) split | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Wow LMAO! You people are funny! Out of the X amount of people that downloaded it, how do you think they found out about Firefox?
How many of these downloads were done the way(s) you you suggest vs using IE?
Granted, Microsoft shouldn't have burried IE so far into the OS... but, what would *ANY* OS be without a browser to enable people to get online to possibly get something different?
Uh huh.
I personally don't like Mozilla products(my choice).
IE enabled me to *TRY* many other softwares... including Mozilla/Firefox, Netscape, Opera, the whole lot of IE based browsers, and many other apps. I suspect that many/most others did the same.
Have a great day people! 
EDIT: Typo
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No Firefox here, move along! | |
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Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| Re: Wow Actually, you can set up a linux box without a browser.
And you can get new programs to install (using Gentoo as a reference here) all via portage.
All programs are organized into easy to understand categories. Also, I use Pan for Newsgroup access, so I could just use that to download program source files or (ACK!) rpms. And join discussion groups on software.
Quite frankly, the browser may seem to dominate the web, but there is a lot more out there than the "average" user knows about.
And how did I learn how to do all this stuff? Easy. I didn't have a browser, so I used what was available. I didn't have a computer and had to use a dumb terminal that was connected to my University's VAX cluster. In order to "see the world" I had to find out for myself how things worked. Then I found IRC, MUDs, Newsgroups, etc... And learned how to use them all on a terminal.
--
Note : The statements made by myself are my own and not the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers. 15.81 GHz Crunching Power | The Ryan Foundation for MPS Children | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Wow No offense, but you are in a minority that knows how to do these things. The majority of computer users today would be lost trying to use a terminal as you described.
Most people today use a browser of some sort. Most people use Microsoft OSes. If Microsoft didn't have a browser included(or the system mfgr. didn't bundle a browser), they would not be able to find out about/download alternatives.
As always, YMMV.
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No Firefox here, move along! | |
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biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI
| Re: Wow said by dadkins :Most people today use a browser of some sort. Most people use Microsoft OSes. If Microsoft didn't have a browser included(or the system mfgr. didn't bundle a browser), they would not be able to find out about/download alternatives. I really don't understand what point your getting at. So you are saying thay we "owe" Microsoft thanks because they preload Internet Explorer on Windows machines? So if IE wasn't preloaded on thes machines then billions of users would be cut off from all types of software downloads from the web (i.e. media players, games, etc)?
The only reason MS has this power is because they have a monolpoly. In my opinion, they would be forced by the Justice Department to put some sort of basic web interface into Windows if they did not offer IE.
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Xbox Live Gamertag is Gupiter | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
2 edits | Re: Wow What OS are you using?
What browser are you using?
How did you get it?
Are you satisfied with it?
Can you remove the OS and install a different OS in it's place?
Will this different OS work for your tasks?
I use XP.
I use Opera and SlimBrowser(IE based).
I used IE to download them.
I am very satisfied with my choices.
I have installed different OSes(Mandrake, Suse, Knoppix(actually installed to HDD)). Removed said OSes, replaced XP to HDD.
No, they didn't play the games/could not find working drivers for my hardware.
I have never eluded to "owing" Microsoft thanks for anything(although, most people today wouldn't be using computers without Microsoft being here). I merely stated, that if an OS(any OS) didn't have a browser, the majority of people that have computers... wouldn't!
"So if IE wasn't preloaded on thes machines then billions of users would be cut off from all types of software downloads from the web (i.e. media players, games, etc)?"
Not "cut off", but greatly hampered. Alot of software *CAN* be found at stores... *ALOT* of other software cannot!
Sure, there are some that can Command Line download "ITEMS", most cannot.
You typed exactly what I was trying to convey...
"...In my opinion, they would be forced by the Justice Department to put some sort of basic web interface into Windows if they did not offer IE."
EXACTLY!
People like to bash Microsoft/IE because it's fashionable...yet most of them will not give up their Microsoft OS and use something different. Same applies to simply not using IE and using whatever browser they wish... but let's bash on IE, because it's fun!
Use whatever floats your boat people, I do! I have an IE based browser as my default, but I also use Opera. BFD!
SIDE NOTE: I have *NEVER* been compromized while using IE or IE based browsers. YMMV.
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No Firefox here, move along! | |
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BlahAgain
@dialup.pol
| Re: Wow Simple fact is if M$ hadnt bundled iExplorer with windows any ISP would provide a choice of browsers on the installation disc, something like what AOL does, but with more choice, or if microsoft wasnt so anti-competition they would have provided a choice during installation of windows letting the user choose which browser they wanted to use. Anyone remember netscape? that was huge and popular before internet explorer arrived... so how did people get that? from purchasing the software and getting it sent to them on disc... much simpler if microsoft internet signup wizard asked what browser you would like to install and then downloaded it, all these alternatives could have happened if microsoft hadn't used its financial might to break the law and bury the competition, now its in a situation where its money cant affect the comptition and all the fanboys like you are pi**ed | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
1 edit | Re: Wow Deleted. | |
| | | | | | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| said by dadkins :Most people today use a browser of some sort. Most people use Microsoft OSes. If Microsoft didn't have a browser included(or the system mfgr. didn't bundle a browser), they would not be able to find out about/download alternatives. Back when there was competition in the market, many ISPs chose to bundle Netscape on a CD and send it to subscribers, because it was the superior browser. Thanks to MS's monopoly, a radically-innovative company like Netscape is no more, and the market is once again stagnant. (The number of truely-innovative features added to IE in the last couple of years, can be counted on one finger. Personally, I'll use my middle one to count.) | |
| | | | | electric_dsl
join:2004-07-20
Pickering, ON
| Good for you mate!
However a lot of people have lives outside of a computer screen, many have jobs on top of that. Many like myself work with computers for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I know that I don't want to mess around with my computer if I need it at home. I want to do the most possible with the least amount of work.
Not to mention most people don't even know where to START when it comes to learning things about computers. Just because you can do it doesn't mean a 60 old grandma who wants to email her grandchildren can or wants to learn. | |
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Unregistered user
@cofs.net
| Granted, Microsoft shouldn't have burried IE so far into the OS... but, what would *ANY* OS be without a browser to enable people to get online to possibly get something different?
Uh, Win 3.x didn't include a browser. Windows 95 included such a basic browser, it was utterly useless. Back then, Netscape ruled, and you could get it several ways:
1. FTP
2. From your ISP or university
3. From a friend
4. Included in a book
And guess what? All these sources are still available for software distribution, plus there are file transfers via IM apps, USB drives, and CD-R's, which allow you to exchange much more data than in the old days.
You're right when you say that many average users don't know what FTP is, but that doesn't make it any less relevant to the Internet. Without FTP, how do you think Web sites are uploaded to Web servers in the first place? | |
| | | | | DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| Re: Wow said by Unregistered user:Granted, Microsoft shouldn't have burried IE so far into the OS... but, what would *ANY* OS be without a browser to enable people to get online to possibly get something different?
Back then, Netscape ruled Well if IE sucked so bad, Netscape would still rule wouldnt it? Choices of Browsers is still available, fact is to 99% of the Computing public it works just fine, youll never change that. | |
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rjackson
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-02
Ringgold, GA
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| Re: Wow said by DVOOR8 : said by Unregistered user:
Back then, Netscape ruled Well if IE sucked so bad, Netscape would still rule wouldnt it? Choices of Browsers is still available, fact is to 99% of the Computing public it works just fine, youll never change that. No, Netscape was pushed out of the race by Microsoft. They used their monopoly in the desktop market to force manufacturers to only bundle Internet Explorer with their machines and no other competitor. | |
| | | | | | | DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| Re: Wow said by rjackson : said by DVOOR8 : said by Unregistered user:
Back then, Netscape ruled Well if IE sucked so bad, Netscape would still rule wouldnt it? Choices of Browsers is still available, fact is to 99% of the Computing public it works just fine, youll never change that. No, Netscape was pushed out of the race by Microsoft. They used their monopoly in the desktop market to force manufacturers to only bundle Internet Explorer with their machines and no other competitor. How do you explain the failure of OS2 Warp? Fact is, if there were a truly better OS/browser, it would succeed. I think 99.999% of the Windows/IE bashing has to do with the hatred of the Microsoft company rather than truly about the OS/Browser. | |
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rjackson
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-02
Ringgold, GA
clubs:
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1 edit | Re: Wow said by DVOOR8 : How do you explain the failure of OS2 Warp? Fact is, if there were a truly better OS/browser, it would succeed. Microsoft is to blame for that too. OS/2 was a joint venture between IBM and MS until Microsoft abandoned the project and left IBM in the dust. In many ways, OS/2 was superior to Windows at the time.
said by DVOOR8 :I think 99.999% of the Windows/IE bashing has to do with the hatred of the Microsoft company rather than truly about the OS/Browser. I'm not bashing Microsoft at all, these are the facts. Microsoft was involved in an anti-trust lawsuit and they were found to be guilty of monopolistic business practices. They were almost broken up into separate companies because of this.
I don't use IE not because of some hatred for Microsoft, but because I find it lacking in features, feeble support for CSS2 and web standards, and its broken box model. | |
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Improfane
join:2003-12-05
clubs:
| You people took that to literally,
Someone new to computers wouldn't know where/or be willing to find how to use ftp just to download a browser to use the web.
You wouldn't know where it was located on the server (unless it was advertised or something)
You wouldn't know how to compile (if you got the source)
You took it to literal, be thankful windows actually came with a browser, I agree its too deeply wielded to it. | |
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Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| Actually, I was working on a coworker's personal computer that was COMPLETELY hosed so far as IE went. Hacked and hijacked, this thing needed some serious cleaning. Of course, no Ad-Aware or any such was on this PC. Everything seemed to work (including Gator and Weatherbug) except IE. Ad-Aware fixed it, by the way, once I was able to download it.
But, what did I do? I downloaded Firefox via command-line FTP. After I installed it I was able to then download Ad-Aware and have it clean up IE's mess. But, I then switched the default browser to FF and put the Noia 2.0 Extreme theme on it. My coworker loves it.
Why didn't I just download Ad-Aware using command-line FTP? Because I'm not familiar with where Lavasoft would keep their files. But, I knew Mozilla.org would be arranged in a way that would make navigating via command-line a breeze.
--
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| | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| said by dadkins :If Microsoft didn't include a browser(IE), how would you have downloaded Firefox? Uhm, same way that you would have downloaded IE. Once you had installed your TCP/IP stack, it usually came with an FTP client and a Telnet client, and you would use the FTP client to connect to a server and download a browser. ftp,microsoft,com or ftp,mcom,com. Your choice. (That was back before MS tried to make your choice for you.)
If you didn't even have that, you could use "ftpmail", automated FTP access via e-mail. | |
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