Robbob90210
@attbi.co
| [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Just got this through.
Excise I can understand, but why the hell do I have to pay the $1.50 each for my International phone numbers. ??
Dear Lingo Customer,
As a valued Lingo broadband phone service customer, we strive to provide you with the best service possible at the most affordable costs. Until now, we have been fortunate to take advantage of current federal regulations and a regulatory environment that has allowed us not to charge Federal taxes and other cost recovery fees on your service. However, changes in both areas have caused us to modify our current policy.
Effective with your billing cycle in February 2005, your Lingo service will be subject a 3% Federal Telecommunications Excise Tax on your monthly subscription fees and additional usages charges from the previous month. Additionally, your Lingo phone numbers are now subject to a Lingo service regulatory recovery fee of a $1.50 per phone number on your service. This includes your primary voice, secondary voice, and fax numbers.
In anticipation that you may have some basic questions regarding these changes, below are some questions and answers for your reference.
What is the Federal Excise Tax?
Lingo is required by Federal law to collect a 3% federal excise tax on the amount which it charges its customers for all communication services. This tax applies to monthly subscription fees as well as to any additional usage charges.
What is the Regulatory Recovery Fee?
The Lingo service regulatory recovery fee is $1.50 per phone number. This fee is charged to our Lingo customers to recover the costs of certain regulatory and compliance requirements imposed, or expected to be imposed, on us by the federal government or various states and localities. These costs can include charges associated with supporting services such as state or local universal service, emergency calling, law enforcement, disability compliance and certain tax requirements. Your Regulatory Recovery Fee reflects a $1.50 charge for each domestic or international phone number, including primary voice, secondary voice, and fax numbers.
We thank you for your understanding and your continued use of Lingo service.
Regards,
Lingo Customer Service
Lingo is a registered trademark of Primus Telecommunications, Inc. | |
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PCInTech
In another place and time.
Premium
join:2004-06-07
Massena, NY
clubs: | Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Uh oh.... smells like the beginning of something disgusting...  | |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV | Thank you other VOIP carriers, now everyone is following suit with fees and taxes. The party is over:( | |
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GrepTar
join:2004-06-21
Huntsville, AL | So, if I cancel because of this, I wonder if I will still have to pay the $40 cancelation fee, since this is not what I originally agreed to. | |
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artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX | Why did not they put following question in FAQ.
Question: Why other providers don't charge those or charge those and don't increase prices and Lingo does?
Answer: Becouse we can | |
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tj008
join:2004-06-24
Cincinnati, OH
| "U. Taxes
1. All taxes, tax-like charges, and tax-related surcharges are referred to collectively as "Tax(es)." Primus may elect to impose and collect such Taxes, unless otherwise constrained by court order or direction.
2. You agree to pay all Taxes imposed. If Primus has collected Taxes and a challenged Tax is found to have been invalid and unenforceable, Primus, in its sole discretion, will either reduce service rates for a fixed period of time in the future in order to flow-through to customers an amount equivalent to the amounts collected, or it will credit or refund such amounts to affected customers (less its reasonable administrative costs), if the amounts collected were retained by Primus or if they were delivered to the jurisdiction and returned to Primus, or it will negotiate an arrangement with the jurisdiction to provide a future benefit for customers in that jurisdiction."
-From the current Terms and Conditions dated in October 2004
Was just a hope and prayer on our parts that they wouldnt succumb to charging taxes.
Would still like to see where the FCC requires these taxes and fees to be collected on voip services.
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| GrepTar
join:2004-06-21
Huntsville, AL | Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax I am almost certain that wasn't in the agreement when I signed up on June 9, 2004. I didn't print it out at the time, though. I guess I will remember to do that from now on.
Would anyone here have an agreement from then? | |
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| | tj008
join:2004-06-24
Cincinnati, OH
1 edit | Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax said by GrepTar  :I am almost certain that wasn't in the agreement when I signed up on June 9, 2004. I didn't print it out at the time, though. I guess I will remember to do that from now on. Would anyone here have an agreement from then? Im sure somewhere in the T&C there is a line saying if this T&C is changed you are bound by them by continuing to pay for the service.
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
 ·Cox HSI
| said by GrepTar :I am almost certain that wasn't in the agreement when I signed up on June 9, 2004. I didn't print it out at the time, though. I guess I will remember to do that from now on. Would anyone here have an agreement from then? I just looked at the T&C from when I signed up in June. Unfortunatley here is the Taxes part:
S. Taxes
1. All taxes, tax-like charges, and tax-related surcharges are referred to collectively as “Tax(es).” Primus may elect to impose
and collect such Taxes, unless otherwise constrained by
court order or direction.
2. You agree to pay all Taxes imposed. If Primus has collected Taxes and a challenged Tax is found to have been invalid and
unenforceable, Primus, in its sole discretion, will either reduce service rates for a fixed
period of time in the future in order to flow-through to customers an amount equivalent to the amounts collected, or it will credit
or refund such amounts to affected customers (less its reasonable administrative costs),
if the amounts collected were retained by Primus or if they were delivered to the jurisdiction and returned to Primus, or it will
negotiate an arrangement with the jurisdiction to provide a future benefit for customers in
that
jurisdiction.
3. If you provide Primus with a duly authorized tax exemption certificate, Primus will exempt you in accordance with law,
effective on the date Primus receives the certificate.
& Taxes on Primus's net income will be Primus's responsibility.
5. If you are required by the laws of any foreign tax jurisdiction to withhold income or profit taxes from a payment, within 90
days of the withholding, you will provide Primus with official tax certificates documenting
remittance of the taxes. The tax certificates will be in a form sufficient to document qualification of the taxes for the foreign
tax credit allowable against Primus’s U.S. corporate income tax, and will be accompanied by
an English translation. Upon receipt of the tax certificate, Primus will issue you a credit for the amounts represented thereby.
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mwf
join:2000-11-26
Granite Quarry, NC | This is my favorite part:
or expected to be imposed, | |
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Hooper
Premium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA
| Verizon and Comcast raise their taxes all the time. Unfortunately in the future we will see more posts like this... but hopefully not too soon. Look at ATT CV, they are already collecting fees for taxes they don't have to pay.
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Bonnaroo 2004 : June 11-13 Manchester, TN | |
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| artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX | Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Why would not just Lingo customer call customer service and ask them why exactly Lingo collecting this tax and other providers don't. This looks like one question which still has not got answered anywhere in this group. | |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
| Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax said by artisticcheese :Why would not just Lingo customer call customer service and ask them why exactly Lingo collecting this tax and other providers don't. This looks like one question which still has not got answered anywhere in this group. I sent them an email asking why companies like SunRocket do not charge these taxes but Lingo does. | |
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| | | artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX | Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax PLease note that SunRocket charges some taxes required but they are just included in monthly price. | |
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| techRW
join:2004-09-03
| said by Hooper :Verizon and Comcast raise their taxes all the time. Unfortunately in the future we will see more posts like this... but hopefully not too soon. Look at ATT CV, they are already collecting fees for taxes they don't have to pay. Are you suggesting that Lingo keeps the taxes they collect?
Also, Lingo says that "changes" have caused them to alter their policy. What changes are they referring to? | |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
| Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Exactly what changes have happened?
Until now, we have been fortunate to take advantage of current federal regulations and a regulatory environment that has allowed us not to charge Federal taxes and other cost recovery fees on your service. However, changes in both areas have caused us to modify our current policy. | |
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WilliamK23
@comcast.net
| »hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···04A5.pdf
Long Distance Carriers owe taxes on the revenue that they collect and have to turn that over to the FCC (the FCC collects a regulatory tax to support the FCC).
The problem isn't native VoIP (Internet PC to Internet PC) but when it goes off the internet to a remote PSTN gateway that is owned by the same carrier in another state (That's when it becomes a long distance call); and rightfully so the FCC wants their share of the pie. | |
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mike823461
join:2004-10-30
Tulsa, OK | There is no way to put lipstick on this pig....the $1.50 is just a surcharge that, as long as VoIP is unregulated, comes out of our pocket and right to Primus's bottom line. | |
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amateur100
join:2004-07-11
portugal | Simple just switch to a non US provider. And fingers up to their taxes. | |
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| | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
 ·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Well see, I like his explanation on why they'd collect that, and do agree. Not like it's astronomical fees that nearly double your bill like it happens with my POTS account, and it actually goes toward supporting the service, not supporting your local congressman's pockets. | |
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| | | artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VoiceStick
| Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax From Sunrocket TOS
SunRocket Bottom-Line Pricing. If your service plan qualifies for SunRocket Bottom-Line Pricing, all applicable federal, state, local or other governmental taxes and charges will be included in the Bottom-Line Price specified for your service plan. The specified Bottom-Line Price represents the sum of SunRocket effective charges and all applicable governmental charges.
My understanding since they are already including taxes and did not raise price recently (to offset changed regulation to tax service) it means that there were no changes on tax front recently (which appears to be the case with Lingo which claims that there were changes). | |
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| | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Dude, you wanna pay the taxes I pay on my residential POTS line? There's at least five different local government entities collecting, FIVE!!! It all adds up close to $20 per month, and the plan I subscribe to is $20!!
I still say the $3 they're collecting isn't bad, if they're really collecting it for what they say they're collecting it for. | |
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| | | | | artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VoiceStick
| Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax So what you are saying is.
I pay more taxes on POTS line then on VOIP or so taxing VOIP is ok.
Secondly since they collect tax for good reason it's ok as well.
The problem with this is that if I want to help my local agencies or disabled organisation I can donate directly. I don't need my phone company make that decision for me.
The only explanation which I'll accept is that they are required to do it by law which does not seems to be a case right now. | |
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| | | | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Better hope that the FCC continues to plunk down your local pol's efforts to tax you up the arse any further. It's gonna happen sooner or later, might as well start accepting it.
And yes I agree.. I'd rather give Broadvox those tax dollars than to give them to Verizon.
Verizon can experience another 9/11 for all I care. | |
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csbadboyz
Csbadboyz
Premium
join:2003-11-14
Sanford, FL | I will still pay Lingo, before I pay the local scum phone company.
Thanks for being there Lingo
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VoIP on FWD & Lingo | |
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| lobster11
join:2004-01-19
Brunswick, ME | That $1.50 per month they are collecting for "regulatory recovery" is certainly a rip-off. | |
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bbrlogue
Learning New Things Daily
Premium
join:2003-12-07
Alexandria, VA
| To be fair, beside AT&T CV mentioned above, Vonage already does this too:
Charges Detail:
International Calls for 1-(703)-xxx-xxxx (02/Dec-01/Jan) $0.95
Overage Calls for 1-(703)-xxx-xxxx (02/Dec-01/Jan) $0.08
Residential Basic 500 for 1-(703)-xxx-xxxx (02/Jan-01/Feb) $14.99
FET Tax $0.48
Regulatory Recovery Fee $1.50
Total Amount $18.00
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caseydoug
join:2001-08-14
Seattle, WA
| There is a big difference between the regulatory recovery fee charged by your local phone company and that charged by Lingo. As a regulated monopoly, the phone company uses "cost of service" pricing, in which it must justify all of its expected costs to a regulatory agency and then is allowed to charge a rate anticipated to recover those costs, plus an approved return on its investment. While this formula does not guarantee it a profit (since all ratemaking is prospective), it does reduce the risk to investors. In exchange, the consumer gets some protection against the phone company's exercise of monopoly power in its pricing decisions.
By contrast, Lingo is allowed simply to charge what the market will bear. If we don't like it, we can take our business elsewhere.
While Lingo's terms of service do allow them to impose Taxes, we should distinguish between taxes they are required to collect (i.e., where the subscriber is the taxpayer), and taxes imposed upon them, or which might be imposed upon them. I feel no obligation to pay more simply because Lingo's costs go up.
The question is, what to do about it? The fact is, Lingo's service agreement does not prevent them from raising their prices whenever they see fit -- and I see this as nothing more than a price increase. Similarly, there is nothing in the service agreement that requires us to continue as subscribers.
The ONLY question is whether Lingo has a right to charge a termination fee if we quit. I believe that is something of an open question. However, we certainly have a good argument that we are not obligated to pay the termination fee if Lingo raises its prices on account of taxes it is not required to collect. Unless this is litigated as a class action, there is simply not enough money involved for any subscriber to test this theory in court. Similarly, it would not be worth it for Lingo to take someone to court for a $40 termination fee.
Therefore, if you want to drop your subscription on account of this price increase, simply tell your credit card company that you no longer authorize Lingo to charge the monthly service fee, pay what you legitimately owe, and cancel your service. | |
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robbob90210
@attbi.co
| Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax Guys, Guys.
Unless I havent been in the US long enough, but in AUS, if you collect a tax, then you pay this to the Government. If you call something a Tax and keep it yourself, well this is fraud.
If your not imposed by the Govt to collect a Tax, then you are legally not allowed to.
I dont understand the in's and out's of the POTS system and charges here, but to me it like USPS trying to charge me for my email.
Robert | |
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ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | My main complaint is the imposition of that $1.50 on virtual numbers, especially the offshore ones. I can't imagine the state of virginia, where lingo is domiciled, taxing a virtual number in london or paris.
-er | |
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ceocio
join:2004-04-16
Columbus, OH
| I got the silly email too.
Lingo wants to raise price? Fine, just come right out and say it!..Lingo wants a better bottom line to please its investoers? I'm all for that.
But don't tell me they are suddenly "required" by the federal governemnt to collect taxes and "regulatory recorvery fee", which they are mostly likely gonna pocket for themselves. Since when voip legislation changed? I thought vonage just won another legal battle few days ago.... | |
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sheik28
Premium
join:2000-10-15
New York, NY
| Just as an FYI. This is taken straight from my P8 bill...
Freedom Unlimited Monthly Fee For 2/1/2005 - 2/28/2005
Account Balance $19.95
Federal Excise Tax (3% FET) $0.60
Total Bill $20.55
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There is no such thing as a stupid question, and yes, the camel types.  | |
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vonsen
Just Because
Premium
join:2005-01-06
| Lingo is being very dishonest in their stated reasons for imposing these fees. The government is not forcing them to collect any tax at this time. The FCC has issued several recent decisions, none of which mandate that taxes have to be collected at this time. Lingo is simply imposing them in anticipation that they will be required to collect taxes at some future time. To label it as something that the government has compelled them to do is untrue and deceptive.
Moreover, the "regulatory recovery fee" is nothing more than a slush fund for lingo. There is no requirement to collect any such fee. It is entirely descretanary on lingo's part. Having sorted out many of their launch problems, they are feeling comfortable enough to slap a 15% surcharge on everyone who is locked into a one year committment. 15% is a large step toward the only reason that I signed up (lower costs). Lingo thinks that few will jump ship over 15% PLUS tax. If broadvox stays the course and does not follow suit, I for one, will get rid of lingo.
Nice. | |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV | Nicely said vonsen. I am thinking of dumping Lingo over this as well. | |
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the_glassman
join:2004-11-23
Binghamton, NY | Time for me to drop my service package or switch providers or drop VOIP all together. I wish more people used Skype including business. I can't express how pissed off I am regarding this. I dropped my landline to avoid this crap. | |
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| | bjohn
join:2002-09-02
Franklin Square, NY | Re: [Lingo] to charge Excise and Reg Tax bastards.
I think I'll quit Lingo.
I urge everyone to email them and tell them this is BS. | |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
| Re: [Lingo] to charge Excise and Reg Tax I have already sent them two emails with no response. Please everyone who subscribes to Lingo send an email to let them know you are dissatisfied with this misrepresented rate hike.
Here are the emails I have for Lingo:
customercare@lingo.com
primuscare@primustel.com | |
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| | | tj008
join:2004-06-24
Cincinnati, OH
| said by bjohn :bastards. I think I'll quit Lingo. I urge everyone to email them and tell them this is BS. It is always good to voice ones opinion. Email them and let them know.
But before anyone jumps ship, lets look at what is waiting for you in the water....
By the looks of things (from this thread »ALL Providers - Monthly Bill including taxes, etc ), there is one frequently discussed provider NOT charging taxes or fees. That is Broadvox Direct. Is it only a matter of time?
Be happy where you are.
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
2 edits | Re: [Lingo] to charge Excise and Reg Tax Don't forget Sunrocket and their policy of including all taxes and fee in their pricing. Please take the time to email Lingo about this issue before we start paying the taxes and fees of POTS. | |
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Re: [Lingo] to charge Excise and Reg Tax