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David
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[Rant] My 2005 Ford Escape Escapade & general experiences


To Mods: If this is not the appropriate area for this I do apologize ahead of time. Please move this to the right area.. Thanks, BB


Scale (1-poor, 10-best)

Quality of vehicle: 3
Service department: 1
Dealership in general: 3
Customer satisfaction: 1
General overall satisfaction of this vehicle: 3
General overall satisfaction of dealership: 2

Dealership:
Koetting Ford
3465 Progress Parkway
Granite City, IL 62040
(618)452-5400

My 2005 Ford Escape was a new vehicle that me and Jamers See Profile's first purchase. We had thought that we made the right decision. After a lengthy trip that this vehicle took to Texas (approx. 11,000 miles) the vehicle started having transmission problems and we could not get the vehicle to go into park. At the same time since the vehicle did not register the park condition the key would get stuck in the ignition and could not be removed. This problem has been and continues to be a somewhat intermittent problem from time to time. Well the dealership determined (@ 3 hours time) that soda or a sticky substance was the cause and promptly billed me $235 for this little incursion. I paid this but to my disgust the problem returned within one week. The second time I had to take a day off (yes a time where I could have been here working on requests and such) but could not due to transportation problems, and no availability of a rental car (service loaner) from the dealership. I waited all day, and called and learned from the receptionist that the vehicle at 3:30 P.M. CST was not being worked on. However, promptly at 4:00 P.M. I received a call stating the vehicle was ready for pickup and the problem "could not be reproduced". What I find funny about that was the service advisor was able to reproduce the problem as well, or as least at that time. The vehicle would do this again, and we learned that something broke on the back gate and now would not allow the gate to close. So the car now thinks it is being broken into because the gate could not latch properly, and we cannot take the key out of the ignition because it is caught in there again (3rd time now). Well it seems again they cannot reproduce the problem, and the screws that were installed by the salesman were the incorrect ones. They tried blaming me and charging me for this, and I was like "Excuse me, but your sales person put those screws on there!! Also, can I get some screws for the front license plate bracket as well since I am paying for them apparently?" They decided to drop this since my dissatisfaction was already mounting.

During this whole time the best they can do is give me an appointment 3+ days out and no service loaner vehicle. Finally, they come to this decision that they should change the shifting lever and the entire console. However, whether this has been done or not has yet to be seen. The problem still remains but is rather intermittent and I really cannot stand why I pay over $400 for a vehicle that is not reliable. On top of all of this I do not believe that the dealer's service department has any professionalism or expertise on working on the vehicle in question. So therefore I am now avoiding them all together, which so far seems to be a good decision.

When I took my Ford Explorer Sport trac in there for a brake squeak condition, they advised that "This is the nature of the vehicle." . As of recent I find that the brakes no longer squeak any more. I took the vehicle to a quick change oil place, and for a special price (like $37) they were checking brakes and such, they noticed that I had some brake dust in there and cleaned them for me. So after that point I decided it would probably be best to avoid them now and in the future.

I find that I might have had a warning sign about their dealership and service department but did not think much about it. Number one it seems that their customers go away stating they are "waiting on a settlement" and they go away. While this may be a basic cop out to them, it might be they were not impressed by your dealership. After all at this point I am not impressed or feel any better owning both ford vehicles in general.

As of recent, my 2003 Sportrac was damaged in a parking lot accident (no one was injured because the vehicle was empty). I had to get 2 estimates, much to my dismay I would have to let them see the vehicle for an estimate. Needless to say yes they have a 2 year warranty on their work, and were $30 cheaper than their competitor, for some reason I just don't feel they should get that money. Mainly because I feel they would just not be very professional in fixing, repairing the vehicle in question. So for $50 more I will be once again, avoiding them all together, and probably better served this way.

At this time, I have looked for a new vehicle and am happy to possibly be a Chevy Avalance owner in the near future. So I will be trading in both vehicles for this one. I figure as least I will be satisfied for a while and it seems to be a nice vehicle. Jamers See Profile will be looking for a different vehicle as well, as she is just as dissapointed/dissatisfied as I am.

My purpose for this was more to inform than to rant. I feel I have the right to rant and am exercising it freely.

Thank you for your time, and hope this information helps you in your dealership/automobile experiences.

David



fire100
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Twin Lake, MI

Re: [Rant] My 2005 Ford Escape Escapade & general

Beachboy that is such a bummer, we have a 2004 Ford Sport Trac and we love it, we went from a Ranger to this to gain more space in the back seat.

That dealer sounds like a crook, they should not have treated you like that, and ate the cost, especially if they wanted a repeat customer.

I have bought 4 new vehicles now from my Ford Dealer and they will jump through hoops to make our new purchase as best as it can be.

Most dealers will also offer a free loaner vehicle as well, especially if it's a new vehicle in for service.

I hope this problem is not apparent with all Escapes because I have had my eye out on the new hybrid escape due to better gas mileage.

Good luck!
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Hall
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reply to David

If you don't like this dealer and have such issues with them, why do you continue going to them ?? You bought a FORD. You can take it to any FORD dealer in the US for all work, including warranty work.

That said, there's a common belief that it takes US carmakers 2-3 years to work all the little bugs out of new models. Maybe it's taking a bit longer with the Escape...



David
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said by Hall:

If you don't like this dealer and have such issues with them, why do you continue going to them ?? You bought a FORD. You can take it to any FORD dealer in the US for all work, including warranty work.

That said, there's a common belief that it takes US carmakers 2-3 years to work all the little bugs out of new models. Maybe it's taking a bit longer with the Escape...
Well, after this I don't care to go to them any more. My point was it was their obligation to fix it and failed. Especially after I paid the first time for it.

Another thing I just about forgot in the whole ordeal was this. We had a salesman come over to the house to look at refitting the bathroom, redoing it for a new shower and such. He stated to us that his girlfriend works at a dealership in south county, and she sees them come in all the time with mechanical problems. This was after the 3rd time the vechicle went back to them. Had I known this piece of advise ahead of time I probably would have never agreed to buy the car to begin with.
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If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do thisMy 2005 ford Escape and general dealership experience


Hall
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And why are you paying for repair work ?? Does this vehicle not have a warranty ??

I can understand them charging for the "spilled pop" problem as that's not a fault with the vehicle...

Consumer Reports is usually pretty accurate with car ratings. Granted, every line has a lemon or two (and maybe you've got one), but what do they say about the Escape ??



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said by Hall:

And why are you paying for repair work ?? Does this vehicle not have a warranty ??

I can understand them charging for the "spilled pop" problem as that's not a fault with the vehicle...

Consumer Reports is usually pretty accurate with car ratings. Granted, every line has a lemon or two (and maybe you've got one), but what do they say about the Escape ??
I can understand them charging me for that too, however when I paid for them to fix it and the problem still remains it draws attention in my mind as "Was this really the problem to begin with?" Plus another question "why did it take 3 other times to fix the same problem?"

Believe it or not I did check consumer reports on this vechicle, it got some pretty good marks all around. Jamers See Profile liked it, so it was more or less settled. Much to me and her dissapointment, and you can ask her about it, and her frustration about it, she pretty much agrees.

The vechicle has a warranty, it only has about 12,000 miles on it, but I think the handling of the situation could have been better, especially if it took them 2 other times to fix the same problem, they were paid for.

Keep in mind, this was my experience, YMMV definatley applies. Apparently, my mileage was shorter than some other persons.

The other big turn off was the fact they wanted to charge me for screws they supplied. Adding final insult to injury.

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My 2005 ford Escape and general dealership experience


nightdesigns
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reply to David

You have a different dealer that you can take it to?



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said by nightdesigns:

You have a different dealer that you can take it to?
I have looked at taking it to ofallon ford, but I face the same problems as I do with Koetting ford.

Since the problem is so intermittent now it would be just about impossible to catch at the right moment, at this time I am just going to wait and trade it in for something better. After all, if Koetting ford does not want to admit there is a problem... I won't either , enough said and done. Plus it does not change that they do not have service loaner cars available either, another dissapointing factor.

I figure it about like this I am going to lose the battle and win the war.
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Hall
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said by David:

I figure it about like this I am going to lose the battle and win the war.
Sounds to me like you're forfeiting...

You've lost money paying for repairs that are probably warranty issues. You've lost money by missing work. You will lose money when you trade the truck in.

I'm surprised there's only (2) Ford dealerships in St Louis too.


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said by Hall:

said by David:


I figure it about like this I am going to lose the battle and win the war.


I'm surprised there's only (2) Ford dealerships in St Louis too.
Well there are more dealerships around here, it is just taking the time that I have already invested in a losing situation.

I tend to give up after about the 4th time around after gaining no ground.. call me crazy but, even I know when to throw in the towel.

Plus, suppose I do take it to another dealer that cannot find or repair the problem. I take another day off and get nothing done about it. So am I really forfeiting? depends on how you look at it..
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Johnny Moon

join:2004-08-30
Northridge, CA

Sometimes it's best to cut your losses and get on with the rest of your life. It doesn't have anything to do with forefeitting, it's just being practical. Get rid of the car and buy something you'll be happier with.



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said by Johnny Moon:

Sometimes it's best to cut your losses and get on with the rest of your life. It doesn't have anything to do with forefeitting, it's just being practical. Get rid of the car and buy something you'll be happier with.
That is about how I looked at it.. I figure at bare minimum they still have to give me payoff for the vechicle, and if they did that for the vechicle it can sit on another dealer's lot. It only has 12k on it so it is not like the mileage is really high. The car does one thing rather well, it does get good traction and handling for the front wheel drive it is, of all the bad things with the car that is one thing that did work rather well. Too bad when I put it in park it will depend on if I can get the key out or not.
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Hall
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said by David:

I figure at bare minimum they still have to give me payoff for the vechicle...
Don't hold your breathe.... Well, they might do this if you buy a "replacement" from them.


David
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said by Hall:

said by David:


I figure at bare minimum they still have to give me payoff for the vechicle...
Don't hold your breathe.... Well, they might do this if you buy a "replacement" from them.
Well replacement is what I am looking for, after all. There are days I kind of wished we would have kept her old car.
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Johnny Moon

join:2004-08-30
Northridge, CA

Buy a different brand. I would recommend this no matter what brand you have. Vote with your money!



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said by Johnny Moon:

Buy a different brand. I would recommend this no matter what brand you have. Vote with your money!
Oh I intend to all together, the Avalanche looked nice and drove like a dream..

I feel in love... or it went something like this

"I sink im n luuuv"

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reply to David

Re: [Rant] My 2005 Ford Escape Escapade & general experiences

I feel your pain... Wish you better car luck in future...

We just had a simelar wierd problem: Car suddenly thought it was being stolen, and so it locked out ALL KEYS, and refused to start...

Nissan 're-aquainted' the existing keys to the computer!!

"Please pay at cashier" "Not covered by Extended Warranty"

(Bend Over!)

At least you feel (a bit) better after venting!
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Re: [Rant] My 2005 Ford Escape Escapade & general

I had a problem with my Chevy truck that the stealers weren't being too helpful with, called the customer service line at Chevy headquarters and everything was taken care of quickly and at no cost to me. They even scheduled the appointment. Might want to give that a try.

-ja
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said by nightdesigns:

I had a problem with my Chevy truck that the stealers weren't being too helpful with, called the customer service line at Chevy headquarters and everything was taken care of quickly and at no cost to me. They even scheduled the appointment. Might want to give that a try.

-ja
We did that once, but they just forwarded the complaint to the same idiot that just calls up and says "Yes it was a soda problem." they (ford) don't really deal with it either. Trust me been down that road too, thus another reason why I am just giving up all together and getting a different vehicle.

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Sweet Witch
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reply to David

said by David:
I can understand them charging me for that too, however when I paid for them to fix it and the problem still remains it draws attention in my mind as "Was this really the problem to begin with?" Plus another question "why did it take 3 other times to fix the same problem?"
Lemon Law??

I would also write a letter to corporate headquarters (care of the president) and inform them that not only has this one dealership lost you as a (multiple) Ford customer, but they've lost both families, friends, etc.
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I thought about the lemon law, but then again more time wasted for a lost cause. I figure cut the loss, and let it become someone else's problem. Hell I will even copy the service reciepts and give it to the next owner. Least then he has a decent fight on his/her hands. Heck, at that point I can only pray a city attorney gets it, that would be an interesting show I would pay to watch.

I sent them the survey sheet back with my general experiences and what I thought.I dought if I hear anything. Would be interesting to see though but I am not betting on it. Who knows they might even sent those anonymous PR drones here to post and state I am lying anyway. My thought to that would be "Sure, and it mysteriously came to your shop four times for the same problem, and you were paid for it... hmmmmm. "

So I figure at this point the best fight I do have is just to get rid of it all together, least then they make just about no interest in me and the vehicle in general.



Sweet Witch
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said by David:
I thought about the lemon law, but then again more time wasted for a lost cause. I figure cut the loss, and let it become someone else's problem. Hell I will even copy the service reciepts and give it to the next owner. Least then he has a decent fight on his/her hands. Heck, at that point I can only pray a city attorney gets it, that would be an interesting show I would pay to watch.
It's interesting how easily you're willing to dump the vehicle on someone else, even with the paperwork. If you insist on handing it in, do it at a dealership and just as you're driving off with the new vehicle hand them the paperwork for the 'lemon' and say 'I just found these and thought you should have them'. The dealership will have the ability to get it fixed much better than an individual.

Or sell it at a greatly reduced cost. I just bought a used car from a person and got quite a surprise that in addition to the tires, it needed all four brakes done and the right front bounced like a rubber ball over 65mph. The bouncing was fixed with the brake job and new tire, but not before also having to replace the studs and special lug nuts because the idiot who put it on previously had crossed the threads and one bolt actually came off. If I had bought through a dealership the tires would have already been done and probably the tires. Fortunately I paid much less for the car than the going rate and had left a buffer for repairs.

Even if you don't keep it, you should probably forward a set of the papers to the city attorney before you sell it. They may have other reports about the dealership and first owners have much more leverage then second owners.
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David
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said by Sweet Witch:

It's interesting how easily you're willing to dump the vehicle on someone else, even with the paperwork. If you insist on handing it in, do it at a dealership and just as you're driving off with the new vehicle hand them the paperwork for the 'lemon' and say 'I just found these and thought you should have them'. The dealership will have the ability to get it fixed much better than an individual.

Or sell it at a greatly reduced cost.

Even if you don't keep it, you should probably forward a set of the papers to the city attorney before you sell it. They may have other reports about the dealership and first owners have much more leverage then second owners.

I still may do this but it will definatley be after I trade it in. Maybe a week or so afterward, least they can have the joys I had. Hell, they might even take it back to koetting and have them repair it fully. Who knows, at that point I won't care.

It isn't that I am willing to just dump it off, it actually drives quite nice, and the Front Wheel drive did fantastic in the snow and ice this seasonal year. If it was not for the fact that I cannot pull the key out of the ignition, or the fact the gear selector still moves even when the vehicle is off I would probably keep it. Then again, what other underlying problems are with the vehicle that I have not found yet? That is a question I don't want to pay in the long run to have answered. I would rather cut my losses and come out ahead in the long run.
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Hall
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said by David:

Hell I will even copy the service reciepts and give it to the next owner. Least then he has a decent fight on his/her hands.
If you trade it in, you won't know who buys it to give it to. If you sell it privately or try to, you think a potential buyer will still be interested if you give them this story ?? If you give them this stuff after the sale, I don't know if they could have the sale voided. Buyer's remorse ?? I know a house and a car are two very different things, but if I sell a house knowing the roof leaks, yet I don't tell the buyer it leaks, I will be liable.
Heck, at that point I can only pray a city attorney gets it...
I don't know how big Granite City is or how busy the prosecutor is, but in 9 out of 10 cities, they'll politely tell you that they don't have time for this. For one, this is a civil matter, a private arrangement between you and the dealer, and they won't get involved.


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Well then again I go back to the point that Koetting ford made, if they don't think it is a problem why should I think there is one? I will use their unprofessionalism and lack of knowledge of my vehicle to my advantage. After all they told me it was fixed, I can play dumb as well.

What I meant by that is if the City attorney buys the car from the dealer (a wishful funny). I don't privately sell vehicles, I am looking at trading it in at this point no private party sales. We can drop that angle right at the table.
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Johnny Moon

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reply to David

Selling your "lemon" to a private party is not an option!!! That will only involve you in a person-to-person altercation. This is contrary to your desire to put it all behind you.

When you sell it to the dealer it becomes their problem and when inevitably the new owner brings it in and complains, the dealer will be obligated to fix it. What's more, they have all the paperwork so they cannot claim no prior knowledge.

In this situation, a commercial dealer is what we call a "knowledgable buyer," where a private party is not. The dealer is assumed to have the expertise to know what kind of deal they are getting into. If you sell it to a private party you will have to prove that you informed the buyer of the exact status of the vehicle. Failing that the buyer may seek damages -- and get it.

By the way, this is not a "lemon law" situation (at least not the car, but maybe the dealer is the lemon) because it is your fault a soft drink was spilled into the works. I presume this is true since you have not denied it.



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said by Johnny Moon:

Selling your "lemon" to a private party is not an option!!! That will only involve you in a person-to-person altercation. This is contrary to your desire to put it all behind you.

When you sell it to the dealer it becomes their problem and when inevitably the new owner brings it in and complains, the dealer will be obligated to fix it. What's more, they have all the paperwork so they cannot claim no prior knowledge.

In this situation, a commercial dealer is what we call a "knowledgable buyer," where a private party is not. The dealer is assumed to have the expertise to know what kind of deal they are getting into. If you sell it to a private party you will have to prove that you informed the buyer of the exact status of the vehicle. Failing that the buyer may seek damages -- and get it.

By the way, this is not a "lemon law" situation (at least not the car, but maybe the dealer is the lemon) because it is your fault a soft drink was spilled into the works. I presume this is true since you have not denied it.
Well, I am not denying the soda problem or that I spilled it or however it happend. I just have a hard time buying that was the acutal cause, based on the subsequent times of repair and the problem intermittently still remaining. Basically that tells me this vehicle can be completely disabled with a $0.55 can of soda or a $0.79 soda at a quicktrip, and it cannot be spilled when the cupholder is built into the same console as the Gear selector. Surely they did not think anyone has spilled a drink in a car before. They play commercials on tv about it now. Plus if a soda could disable a vehicle such as this why did they not think in the engineering of the car to put the beverage holders elsewhere? Or locate the gear selector in the steering column not between the seats in the console? It might be a lemon law condition, then again it could be shotty work, and pass the blame off to me. I am just tired of wasting time & money on it and looking for better options.
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Johnny Moon

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I used to have a 35mm camera. One day I took it to an outdoor event and accidentally spilled a small amount of soft drink on it. I wiped it off and it appeared to have not gotten inside at all. A few days later I started having problems with the exposure control. I sent the camera to the manufacturer's repair depot three times, each time hoping that would fix the camera. In the end I threw away the camera body and bought a later model of same. (Glad I didn't have to waste my normal, tele and wide linses!)

The simple fact is that the chemicals in soft drinks muck up electrical contacts and unless you can clean ALL of the material out of the contacts you will always have problems with intermittant contact. This is the situation you are in.

Considering the cars with serious design problems like wheels that fall off or exploding gas tanks, you should be glad your problem is not life threatening. I understand your anger against the dealer and manufacturer, but I think your experience would be similar had you bought a different brand from a different dealer.

We all make mistakes and often we are unaware of the potential harm until after it's been done. As I said in my first post, the best thing to do is get past it and enjoy the rest of your life. Trade it in, get something you like, and be careful with those sodas!



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said by Johnny Moon:

The simple fact is that the chemicals in soft drinks muck up electrical contacts and unless you can clean ALL of the material out of the contacts you will always have problems with intermittant contact. This is the situation you are in.

Considering the cars with serious design problems like wheels that fall off or exploding gas tanks, you should be glad your problem is not life threatening. I understand your anger against the dealer and manufacturer, but I think your experience would be similar had you bought a different brand from a different dealer.

We all make mistakes and often we are unaware of the potential harm until after it's been done. As I said in my first post, the best thing to do is get past it and enjoy the rest of your life. Trade it in, get something you like, and be careful with those sodas!
I agree wholeheartedly, I still think they should have fixed it though, I mean they were paid for it!!

But yep, I am going on.

Someone suggested I take a new pic of the new truck and put it here. I think that would be a fantastic idea, least they can know what replaced them.
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If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this. My 2005 ford Escape and general dealership experience

Johnny Moon

join:2004-08-30
Northridge, CA

They should have warrantied the repair for a reasonable time (perhaps 90 days) and within that period they should have made additional attempts to fix it, free of any additional charge. This is why I would take my business elsewhere if I were you.