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FDM80

join:2001-07-16
Silver Spring, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to nasadude

Re: FIOS Installation is a go in Montgomery County

They cut the copper between my house and the pole. I'm pretty sure if copper is underground they won't bother ripping it out. He just climbed a ladder and snipped the 2 wires. Funny because when he was doing it, he said that cutting the lines up there was the scariest part of the install because he didn't want to accidently cut the fiber. He said that his ass would be in huge trouble if he did.



multi carrier

@nrockv01.md.comcast.

Oh.. now this is interesting.. and what do they do if you have several providers????

Snip the copper anyway????

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........

I have 3 carriers on my copper ATM....



JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

Yep, that's the catch. In with the privately-owned glass, out with the publicly shared copper.

»Verizons control of FTTP comes with a catch

I've got nothing but one Verizon voice line over the copper, and not much hope for availability of additional services, so for me it's not a big deal. If I could, I'd pick muni fiber over private fiber without question, but even our municipality prefers not to share their fiber.


FDM80

join:2001-07-16
Silver Spring, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

We've had AT&T local, then Bell Atlantic local, then Verizon local. All of that technically from the same parent company. For us it's really been just a name changing over the years so for us it really wasn't a hard decision to get rid of the copper. 25 years of essentially having the same phone service, and having it moved to fiber wasn't really that big of a deal for us.

Obviously if you are going to entertain offers for other phone services then you should request to keep the copper. I said they could get rid of it. It's been 25 years and we still haven't had any company call us up and tell us they can give us cheaper service. Without all the extra fees they tack on and our call waiting fee, we pay $22 a month. Which so far we haven't had anyone offer an even better price for what we have, including new offers from verizon.

Verizon called us just last week. Told us we were paying $32 (before fees) and wanted to give us $28 (before fees). We took out the last bill and told the guy we pay $22 (before fees). Verizon can't even match the price of their own service that we get from them.



JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

Good to know you had the choice to keep the copper drop if you wanted to, FDM80 See Profile.

I'm really reluctant to give up my copper phone because Verizon supplies the power, which I've occasionally needed for longer than 8 hours (which is all you get with the ONT's battery).


FDM80

join:2001-07-16
Silver Spring, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

Yeah, the only reason I was thinking of keeping the phones on copper is because my street has had an extraordinary amount of power outages over the last 2 years or so. Specifically local to our block unfortunately. There is a transformer around the block that has been very picky. We've probably had 5 outages over the last 2 years, while people across the road on a different street have never had a problem because they are fed from another direction. I remember we were out from the big snow like 2 years ago and our neighbors offered to let us run a 100 ft extension cord from their house to ours just to keep our refrigerator/freezers going. We ended up doing that twice. Last time our power went out I immediately called pepco and they had a team of guys look at it. Haven't had a problem since that day, but I always wonder when the next outage will be.

Of course the only reason staying on copper would work is because we have an old phone or 2 that can still be powered by the jack. Our newer phones all need AC power to function so if we didn't keep our old ones we would have to rely on the cell phone only.



JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

Believe it or not, phones powered only by the jack are still available, so no need to panic if the last one you own breaks.


BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001

JT,

the last one I owned didn't break... I beat it to death with a hammer:D



JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

ROFL!

<--- BarneyBadAss See Profile

Did you replace it?


BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001

I did.. but my son decided he really wanted to find out what made it ring.. so he used another hammer to get into it... obviously.. using a screw-driver would have only been an option if he coulda figgerd out where to pour the liquid n' ice-cuves



GRIZZMEISTER

join:2005-02-10
Wake Forest, NC
reply to JTRockville

said by JTRockville:

Good to know you had the choice to keep the copper drop if you wanted to, FDM80 See Profile.

I'm really reluctant to give up my copper phone because Verizon supplies the power, which I've occasionally needed for longer than 8 hours (which is all you get with the ONT's battery).
Not that big a deal for me since I use my cell phone most of the time and I can charge it in my car.

I want Fios so bad I can taste it. It'd be perfect for working from home or hosting 16 player matches of Tribes:Aerial Assault on my PS2. I could even allow my friends to play Halo 2 online at my house with each person having their own full screen. Listening to my home towns radio broadcast clearly over the Net is also cool! The possibilities are as endless as they are exciting!


JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

Yeah, I can charge my cell phone in my truck. I also have an inverter, and a UPS (but no generator yet!). Still, having a jack-powered phone means there's one less device to tend to during an emergency. I'd also prefer the wired line for 911 rather than a cell should the need arise.

But I want FiOS bad too - bad enough to ditch the copper if that was the only way to get it. Still, it's nice a perk to keep the copper along with the light, even if only for a short while.



GRIZZMEISTER

join:2005-02-10
Wake Forest, NC

Verizon should use the copper line to provide power to the ONT in case of emergency. Maybe not for every customer but for those that feel they really need it. Maybe charge an extra dollar a month or something. I wouldn't feel compelled to keep the safeguard but I can appreciate how some people would. Especially those that use their phone line for their homes alarm system.



JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

Wow, is that possible? Can the ONT be powered with the copper line?

I realize a lot of folks wouldn't want/need it - look at how many folks have already ditched copper altogether. But I'd pay extra for it!



GRIZZMEISTER

join:2005-02-10
Wake Forest, NC

said by JTRockville:

Wow, is that possible? Can the ONT be powered with the copper line?
I'm not sure but I used to design T-1 lines and the mid-span repeaters used for those were CO powered. Granted they only needed 48V DC. What type of power requirements do the ONT's have? By that I mean, what is the standard power rectified to? Man... I really need to check out the Fios setup for myself as I have so many questions. I'd probably just spend all my time playing XBOX-LIVE games with it though.;)


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to JTRockville

Nope. The ONT requires way too much more power than a POTS line can provide. Anyway, the whole point of FTTP is to move away from the copper-based OSP. The copper maintenance costs are very high today trying to provide basic dial tone and DSL - forget about trying to redesign the OSP to provide backup power.

So FTTP and copper for power backup isn't the plan.


BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001
reply to JTRockville

JT,

Just get another provider on your copper; like MCI / AT&T / SBC or another carrier besides VZ on your copper.

They will be hard pressed by Federal Law to "Disconnect" another carriers service.


Robert Morrisson

join:2000-03-31
Silver Spring, MD
reply to nycdave

It is not a case of the ONT requiring too much power. It is a case of a cable that moves light, not electricity.

The fiber transmits light from the central office to the ONT at your home. It also transmits light from the ONT to the central office. That is all it is - light.

This light is generated by powered equipment at each end of the fiber. That means that the central office and your ONT must have power to product this light. Once the fiber is lit it can stretch for many miles.

This is quite unlike copper, on which the signal strength diminishes rapidly over distance. That is why DSL does not work when the line is more than 15,000 feet long.

The bundler of fiber does not contain any copper, except possibly to provide a signal path for sniffing out buried lines.

The signal over a copper cable drops with the length of the line, which is one reason a DSL connection is limited to 15,000 or so feet. If you did mix copper and fiber in the same bundle you certainly could not provide enough power to operate one ONT, let alone every ONT on the line.

So, if you want the benefits of fiber you will have to suffer the risk of losing the service after 4-8 hours. You could buy an add-on battery pack from Verizon and modify it to run from a deep-charge marine battery. Or you could run the battery backup unit from a large UPS.



sdgthy

@optonline.net

While the point about the fiber only carrying light, I agree with. Fiber can't transfer power without great loss. I might have to question the "too much power" comment.

From various pictures of the BBU, the battery is 7.2AH, that means a good battery should be capable of 7.2 amps for an hour, or 1 amp for 7.2 hours. Another comment where the BBU P/S was miswired suggested it lasted about 8 hours before killing the battery. That would seem to indicate that the ONT draws a bit under an amp (anyone who already had an install and has an ammeter, feel free to enlighten me).

Hmm, I just thought of something, now I have to ask a question in that thread...

The POTS system was designed to supply no more than a few mA, the ring current being the greatest demand. That's why there's RE numbers. In fact, for those who remember them, Princess phones used to require an independent AC line transformer for it's lamps and used the second pair of CAT3 for that. The Trimline introduced LED's.


Robert Morrisson

join:2000-03-31
Silver Spring, MD

Fiber cannot carry any current. It only passes a beam of light generated at one end of the fiber to a photo-sensitive transistor at the other end of the fiber.

The transmitters and receivers at each end require power. A battery rated at 12 volts and 7.2 amp hours would furnish around .6 amperes. The load from 32 ONTs would be 19.2 amps, for just one local cable.

that kind of current would require a #12 cable for a very short run or a #8 or #10 cable for a long run (standard household wiring is #14).

If you went to a higher voltage such as 110 volts the load would reduced to 2 amps, requiring a much smaller wire. The problem is, you would need to house the power conversion equipment somewhere.

That 2 amps would only supply 32 ONTs. One trunk from the central office can handle far more ONTs than that so that wire would have to be huge.

An alternative would be to drop power from a power company pole. That is just duplicating the problem, while keeping it out of your control.

It is a fact of life that fiber to the door requires local power at both ends of the fiber.



sdgthy

@optonline.net

That didn't come out quite right.

A photodiode generates current from light, so it is possible to transfer power. In fact most any modern switching power supply uses this. Applied current bias to reduce noise is a whole 'nother subject. The problem is that the apparent power required by the ONT would not be practical to transfer over fiber.


Robert Morrisson

join:2000-03-31
Silver Spring, MD

Well, close.

A transistor passes a large current from its emitter to its collector when a small voltage (bias) is impressed between its base and emitter.

A photo-transistor has a photo-sensitive diode as its base element. Light shining on the diode generates a voltage that causes the transistor to conduct, thus switching the power between the emitter and the collector.

The power source for the light does not pass through the fiber. That power generates light, which controls the photo-transistor on the other end of the fiber. The power for the photo-transistor must be supplied locally.

You cannot put voltage on the fiber and draw current through it. So, while the power source at the central office does control the photo-transistor at your home, that current does not pass through the fiber.

So, there is no current passed down the fiber. For current to flow you need a path for electrons. Glass fiber, being an insulator, does not provide such a path. So, if you take a lightning strike on the fiber bundle feeding your house your ONT will not be affected.

Well, it might be affected if the fiber melts or breaks, but that is another story. At least the photo-diodes / opto-isolators will have done their job.

Photo-transistors are often used in a device called an opto-isolator, which is designed to isolate two power sources. A voltage from one signal source feeds an LED, which is intimiately coupled to the base of a photo-transistor. Light from the LED causes the transistor to switch on and off in response to the voltage on the LED. The two power sources are totally isolated; a high voltage surge will not cross the opto-isolator.


vzguy

@verizon.net
reply to JTRockville

im sure its possible (as long as a conductor that small can handle enough power to do that) but i work for vz and i dont ever see that happening. buy yourself a generator people, judging from the size and price of the houses of where weve been installing this stuff, no doubt you can afford one.



vzguy

@verizon.net
reply to nycdave

i disagree, again its possible. i know for fact a vz tech was killed in a co a few years ago by power backfed on a pots line while working on the frame. personally i think its too dangerous and highly unlikely. as i said before i work for vz, i havent heard any discussion of this. i believe the idea is to completely jettison copper once the penetration of fios gets to a certain point.



JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
reply to BarneyBadAss

said by BarneyBadAss:

JT,

Just get another provider on your copper; like MCI / AT&T / SBC or another carrier besides VZ on your copper.

They will be hard pressed by Federal Law to "Disconnect" another carriers service.
It just occured to me - I already have another provider's service: MidAtlanticBroadband T-1. The T-1 uses a separate NID, but it has a connection to my VZ POTS NID.

VZ won't touch the T-1 NID during a FiOS install, will they?

If VZ tries to replace the POTS NID for FiOS, what will happen to my T-1?