vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
edit:
February 12th, @03:13AM
| Before you post 'how to share WiFi to neighbor?'
First off, did you read the FAQ?
»Wireless Networking Forum FAQ
Did you read the old posts? There are hundreds with titles like yours already. One example:
»Setting up wireless between 2 houses
An often overlooked point is to check your Terms of Service. Your ISP may forbid sharing, and there may be HEAVY penalties. Some ISP's are friendly to it. Check on it!
To reiterate the basics of the technology:
1) Line Of Sight (LOS) is an essential ingredient.
If you have a window in location #1 where you can put the AP and sit your client in the window at location #2, and they have clear line of sight and distance is reasonable, it can be done. Let this much be clear, 2.4 GHz is the same frequency your microwave oven uses, and there is a reason it heats up food so well. Water molecules absorb 2.4 GHz radio very nicely, which is why it get hot when you bombard it in the oven. If you have a bunch of trees in the way, they are full of water, and there is very little chance you are going to get a signal through many trees over a long distance. Getting LOS is essential, and if you need to go higher to get it then do it.
2) An amplifier is no substitute for a good antenna and LOS!
If we are at a party and you want to chat with me from across the room, is it a good idea to whip out your bullhorn? No, it's quite stupid. Now I can hear you but you still cannot hear me. WiFi is 2-way, it is not AM-radio. The next answer will be "let's all get bullhorns" but then we all go deaf. There is a smarter way. A cone held to your ear will let you hear better.
A good high-gain antenna will let you hear weak signals as well as you transmit, so it is in every way superior. Usually cheaper too. The best solution is often a directional antenna which will enhance transmit and received in a particular direction, with the side-benefit of rejecting interference sources in other directions. Try even the simple home-made antennas from
»www.freeantennas.com |
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
| 3) To connect two networks wirelessly or to extend wireless, the ideal solution is to get a REPEATER. Normally this has TWO radios so that no significant loss of throughput occurs. One can essentially make a repeater by using the coupling of two devices, an ethernet adaptor bridge(to capture) and wire it to an AP (to retx)
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) - |
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Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs:
| reply to vincentfox
Here's some more threads that have discussed this in the past 
»Extended Range Connection
»Extending a wirless network
»[wireless] Options to Extend My Wireless Connection
»[wireless] WRT54G Range Problems (These steps can be taken on any router, not just the WRT54G)
»[wireless] How to?: Long range 802.11g
»Need Help with extending wireless Range
»Wireless Range - Indoor - Help
»Confused about how to extend my wireless signal
»home wireless network with 3 blocks or more range?
»extending wireless coverage
And of course, if you have a question about a specific product, visit the vendor specific forums.
--
The new Secure-Wifi.net is open!
My Blog |
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vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
| reply to vincentfox
Re: Before you post 'how to share WiFi to neighbor
An additional attempt to explain the "obstruction in the way" to someone:
Let me make a useful analogy here.
You have a candle sitting in a windowsill. With clear LOS (Line of Sight) you can see this candle from a long distance on a dark night. You might need binoculars further away.
Now you put a house or a thick stand of trees in the way. You cannot see the candle anymore! I would point out that "amps" are no help since they boost maybe to 1 Watt. How bright is a 1-Watt light bulb? Not very. The problem is not insufficent power, it's that house in the way!
To put it quite simple the nature of WiFi is low-power and not very penetrating. Metals and any material with water in them (i.e. TREES) cut your range drastically.
The correct solution is to get clear LOS. Most people do this by putting an antenna on a mast up high enough to see over the obstruction. At least from altitude with a good directional antenna you have a better shot at it.
Alternatively you could put up a repeater station on the top of the obstruction. |
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vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
| reply to vincentfox
Ok a PRIMO link here:
»Wireless Networking Forum FAQ »How Can I Set Up a Long-Range Link?
This is actually in the existing FAQ and I didn't see it until just now. Perhaps it's a recent addition? Or maybe I'm blind....
Anyhow, well-written SWBill! |
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC | It's new. You're not impaired.
Agreed that Bill  did a nice job with the write-up. |
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Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs:
edit:
February 19th, @12:01PM
| No_Strings also helped out with content and grammar/spelling checks
Thanks. |
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vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
| reply to vincentfox
I forgot to point out explicitly in the original post, another way in which good use of directional antenna help out.
Namely interference!
By focussing your receive and transmit gain in a particular direction you become somewhat more blind in other directions. A high-gain omni will still be very susceptible to interference from it's 360-degree arc. A high-gain directional will be LESS likely to interference from other sources in other directions. So that other neighbor with the 2.4 GHz phone, the 2.4 GHz cameras, etc will be less of a problem if you use a directional antenna. The 2.4 GHz band is unfortunately very narrow, and crowded with devices that aren't usually smart enough to share the spectrum well, you have to take this into account. |
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vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
edit:
May 10th, @12:43PM
| reply to vincentfox
Time for an addition.
Another FAQ is:
"I want to pick up my neighbor's AP, then run my whole house off it. Wired desktop PC, WiFi laptop, etc. Name some ways I can do this, please?"
See the picture at top.
Logic here is that you have 3 discrete functions that do not neccessarily belong in the same places.
1) You want to put a unit somewhere that it can get good signal from the neighbor. Often this location is at the window, or outdoors under the eaves, or even on a TV mast. So you put a WET54G, or a WRT54G in "AP client" mode there. Stick a directional antenna on it to get a good solid link with neighbor. I mention "AP client" mode as many factory firmwares support it right out of box, it does not require you to buy something odd, or flash 3rd-party firmwares, or anything else a novice might have troubles with.
2) Run the ethernet from the "AP client" unit to the WAN port on any old wired router. A disadvantage with "AP client" mode is it typically only supports a single client MAC address, so you can't just plug it into a hub and support a dozen PC's directly. But by plugging it into the WAN port on a router, it only has the MAC address of the router to contend with. All your household LAN components are hidden behind that. Using a wired router here, has the plus that you are behind the NAT firewall of that router, so the PC's on your home LAN will be somewhat protected from worms on your neighbor's PC's.
3) Run your desktop PC's off the LAN ports. Also you can attach a WiFi Access Point to a LAN port and run a separate WiFi domain for your household needs. It will be most convenient to locate this AP somewhere central to your laptop needs, which is very likely NOT going to be where the "AP client" is with it's directional pointed the other way. Also frequently there is an office with a desktop PC where it is convenient to wire things, while you want to use the laptop in the den or by the pool or someplace else. Hence my logic that this setup is best done with 3 separate components. Also makes problems with each piece easy to debug. If components #2 and #3 can be in the same place, you could collapse them into a single WiFi router unit.
Couple things to keep in mind:
-If neighbor connection is on Ch.11 then use Ch.1 or 6 for household WiFi AP. Also use a different SSID and encryption key.
-If neighbor subnet is 192.168.1.x then you will need to use some other subnet for your internal LAN, 192.168.100.x should make it obvious which is internal and which external.
Yes, there are other ways to skin this cat, I'm sure someone will chime in with alternate designs. Please include pictures though! |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| An even easier design involves simply attaching a wireless router or WAP to the client bridge. There is no real need to have a dedicated wired router between the bridge and your wireless router/WAP. You can then choose if you want your neighbors AP to assign you IP's or yours. If you want your own separate network then make sure you connect your bridge to the WAN port on your router/WAP. Otherwise, connect your bridge to a LAN port on your device and his AP will issue all your IP's. It all depends on what you are looking to do!
--
I like dogs, guns, and cheeseburgers. Whats your malfunction? |
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vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
| reply to vincentfox
Care to do a diagram for the novice?
My argument is that for John Novice, an "AP client" setup is simpler to work with. Bridging, WDS, etc. lead to complications that may overwhelm some people. Like if you are relying on the DHCP server over on the other network, and can't reach it, it may be a bit difficult to understand what is going on. Or you plug in your own WiFi router just to do some local stuff, and can't understand why DHCP has now gone haywire on both networks, which is because you can't have 2 DHCP servers in same LAN.
Also a bridged environment sounds friendly, like one big happy LAN. Which may not be so great when your open fileshare gets you infected by a worm operating on the neighbor's computer.
YMMV. |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| I guess there are a few different ways this can be done. Each person will feel comfortable doing it differently! My suggestion was to simply replace the wired router in your diagram with something like a wrt54g that serves as both a wired and wireless router. I figure that one less piece of equipment might be easier to handle for a beginner.
--
I like dogs, guns, and cheeseburgers. Whats your malfunction? |
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vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
| reply to vincentfox
errr, ahhh, oh
I misread thought you were onto something else. Yes, I agree with that and in previous post had mentioned that as well. It will work as long as it's WiFi signal can reach rest of house.
I mentioned the other as first choice since often people have an office with desktop somewhere at edge of house. And you typically want your AP somewhere centered in the house for best coverage. It's not hard to find an old wired router for $10 like the D-Link DI-604 for free or $10 or something. |
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punnjabi
join:2005-06-10
Spartanburg, SC | reply to vincentfox
Re: Before you post 'how to share WiFi to neighbor?'
can i catch a wifi signal wid a super g card?? |
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avd706
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Great Neck, NY
| said by punnjabi :can i catch a wifi signal wid a super g card?? Dat wut day do. |
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fclodomiro
join:2005-06-15
San Juan, PR
| reply to vincentfox
Wow Vincentfox, I finally find someone picturing my exact scenario (this guy had a similar scenario but no one helped »www.hyperwrt.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=87).
My county is offering a few hotspots to create a wireless network (i.e. SeattleWireless), but the guy who set it up is no longer with the government, so it is up to people to figure how the linking will proceed.
From my backyard I’m able to catch this wifi signal on my laptop, but it won’t penetrate my walls. A shop gave me a free 2.4Ghz parabolic antenna to pick up the hotspot’s signal and send it via a LMR-400 cable into my house. I have plugged this cable into one of the antenna ports of a Linksys WRT54G (v3).
I’ve already installed HyperWRT2.0, but I can’t seem to understand what I must do now. I’m not trying to be a leech, I’ve truly read for days, tried tweaks here and there, but I’m obviously missing something (apart from programming skills). Local shops? Forget it, they said it can’t be done.
I tried following these suggestions »Wireless Networking Forum FAQ »Using a Wireless Router as an Access Point, but I’m stomped when it comes to making the WRT54G an AP, while another router (a borrowed Netgear WGT624) is between my computer and the AP. My issues are:
1-Between wifi4milez and vincentfox you settled that one can get away with two pieces of hardware. The WRT54G is plugged to the rooftop’s antenna, but still continues to transmit an empty (no internet access) signal that my laptop picks up. The web interface won’t let me disable the second antenna. What am I doing wrong here?
2-I assume I should get both routers to be the same (I’ll buy another WRT54G tomorrow) to simplify things. How do I then configure one router to be an AP and the second to do the wireless transmission while they are daisy-chained? (from Wireless Network Connection Status I can see the IP, Subnet and Gateway)
**I have even tried opening ipconfig, but the MS-DOS window closes instantaneously.
I’m really in the dark here, I don't expect anyone to digest this info for me, so thanks for any hints that you may be able to provide. |
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funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Comcast
| said by fclodomiro :**I have even tried opening ipconfig, but the MS-DOS window closes instantaneously. Type CMD to open the window.
Then in the open window, use IPCONFIG
Type EXIT to close the window.
--
Robb Topolski
http://www.funchords.com/
Hillsboro, Oregon USA |
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fclodomiro
join:2005-06-15
San Juan, PR
| Hi Funchords,
I've tried Start/Run/CMD first and it still closes the window automatically. I've done this several times in a row to be able to read the error message, but it opens and closes so fast that my eyes barely get a glimpse of the black window. I've tried searching the WinXp forums to no avail. |
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vincentfox
join:2003-03-18
Davis, CA
edit:
June 15th, @10:44AM
| reply to vincentfox
Re: Before you post 'how to share WiFi to neighbor
The simplest thing you can do, is set your WRT to "AP client" mode of operation. This turns it from the center of the solar system into a mere planet. Or another way to think of it would be this is a mode that makes it just like a WiFi card for your laptop/desktop. It will expect ONE and ONLY ONE ethernet attached client. There will be a switch somewhere in the wireless setup screens where you click to select this mode, and give it the SSID and encryption settings.
Do not try to make things too complicated at the start. Just connect up a single PC directly to LAN port of your rooftop WRT and get that working in client mode.
If your firmware supports it set TX and RX of antenna both to the one antenna. "Left" is as seen from rear of unit in most firmwares, not from front. I use SveaSoft firmware, don't know HyperWRT.
Use this to test things out as it's simple and well-supported in even the Linksys factory firmware. You could even connect it to the WAN port of a home router and just use it as a permanent solution. This works well since a NAT router will hide behind the single address of the WAN port, all the LAN and possible local WiFi clients. Look at the picture I drew and read it all again it will become clear.
WDS is also a possibility, but that's a bit more advanced and your city network may not support it. |
|
funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| reply to fclodomiro
Re: Before you post 'how to share WiFi to neighbor?'
said by fclodomiro :Hi Funchords, I've tried Start/Run/CMD first and it still closes the window automatically. I've done this several times in a row to be able to read the error message, but it opens and closes so fast that my eyes barely get a glimpse of the black window. I've tried searching the WinXp forums to no avail. When you run it from the first window, does the command seem to run in a second window?
Or, when you run it from the first window, the command seems to run and then closes that first window?
--
Robb Topolski
http://www.funchords.com/
Hillsboro, Oregon USA |
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