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Anti-spyware group collapses »
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amysheehan
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:1999-12-21
Huntington Beach, CA
·RoadRunner Cable

reply to eburger68
Re: ASW Vendors in La-La Land

On Feb 5th I noticed the 'funky' numbers and saved my download log to another disc....

Definitions File Loaded:
Reference Number : SE1R26 25.01.2005
Internal build : 31
File location : C:\Program Files\Lavasoft\Ad-Aware SE Personal\defs.ref
File size : 413418 Bytes
Total size : 1303446 Bytes
Signature data size : 1273751 Bytes
Reference data size : 29183 Bytes
Signatures total : 36254
Fingerprints total : 607
Fingerprints size : 22890 Bytes
Target categories : 15
Target families : 632

2-5-2005 4:48:31 PM Performing WebUpdate...

Installing Update...
Definitions File Loaded:
Reference Number : SE1R27 05.02.2005
Internal build : 32
File location : C:\Program Files\Lavasoft\Ad-Aware SE Personal\defs.ref
File size : 410347 Bytes
Total size : 1296130 Bytes
Signature data size : 1266439 Bytes
Reference data size : 29179 Bytes
Signatures total : 36032
Fingerprints total : 616
Fingerprints size : 23320 Bytes
Target categories : 15
Target families : 631

2-5-2005 4:48:40 PM Success
Update successfully downloaded and installed.

--------
At least I know now I wasn't seeing things....;)


Corrine
Premium
join:2004-08-27

reply to eburger68
»www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.ph···p=389520

Hi all,

First and foremost, Lavasoft does not have collaborations with any company that has or will have content detected by Ad-Aware. WhenU was indeed removed from our database by research in the last definition file. This was due to WhenU not scoring more than 2 TAC points at the time. In case it turns out that the removal was incorrect, WhenU will naturally be reintroduced to the database.

Thanks Chris Fry
www.lavasoft.de
--
Corrine, Lavasoft Forum Administrator

psloss
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Alpharetta, GA


2 edits
reply to eburger68
AAWSEScans.zip 8,920 bytes
Well here's for strange...I scanned last night with the SE1R25 definitions and it found nothing -- not even the Alexa registry stuff that SE1R26 found. That's when I decided to quit and start again this morning.

But no change today -- even after restoring the OS install from Ghost image and reinstalling (first AAW, then BearShare). The logs from the three scans (with SE1R25, SE1R26, and SE1R27) I did are attached. The latter two logs are very similar except that I started taskmgr in between those two scans -- they both pick up the Alexa entries. (The VVSN process is running, post BearShare install, for all three scans.)

FWIW, here's the full command line on the VVSN process:
PID 1496 [XPHOMEGOO\TestAdmin]: '"E:\Program Files\VVSN\VVSN.exe" /cfg:EEPE010501 /d"BearS
*hare" /f"E:\Program Files\BearShare\BearShare.exe"'

(*) WARNING 1 long line(s) split

Edit, to fix long line...

Philip Sloss

--
Feedback? e-mail: stuff@lupwa.org



Dogwood
Premium
join:2001-01-14
Texas
clubs:
reply to Corrine
Well, that is sad.
No more Ad-Aware for me or my clients.

I just glad there are still some anti-adware/spyware companies out there with a little self respect.


Spy
Premium
join:2001-09-22
NE

reply to Corrine
said by Corrine See Profile:

»www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.ph···p=389520

Hi all,

First and foremost, Lavasoft does not have collaborations with any company that has or will have content detected by Ad-Aware. WhenU was indeed removed from our database by research in the last definition file. This was due to WhenU not scoring more than 2 TAC points at the time. In case it turns out that the removal was incorrect, WhenU will naturally be reintroduced to the database.

Thanks Chris Fry
www.lavasoft.de
2 TAC Points? What is this, comedy central?
Read here and let me know if you think 2 TAC points is enough for WhenU.

»www.lavasoft.de/ms/tac.shtml

B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28


2 edits
reply to psloss
said by psloss See Profile:

Thanks, Eric.

And thanks for the TAC search link, DSL_Steve...unfortunately, I can't get it to find WhenU. Anybody else try it?

I was able to get it to hit on "coolweb" and "Claria" but not "when", "whenu", or "whenusave"

Philip Sloss
Nothing on searching for "savenow" either...

Have we gotten to the bottom of this yet?

I'm inclined to believe the official explanation, but I've been known to be gullible before. Corrine, would you care to show us WhenU's category by category TAC score breakdown, please?

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
quote:
I'm inclined to believe the official explanation, but I've been known to be gullible before. Corrine, would you care to show us WhenU's category by category TAC score breakdown, please?
Yes, I'd like to see this as well.

psloss
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Alpharetta, GA

reply to B
said by B See Profile:

Nothing on searching for "savenow" either...

Have we gotten to the bottom of this yet?

I'm inclined to believe the official explanation, but I've been known to be gullible before. Corrine, would you care to show us WhenU's category by category TAC score breakdown, please?
Of course if the WhenU items (or related items) were in their searchable database we'd already have some idea about their scoring...so I hope those will be added in an update...

Philip Sloss
--
Feedback? e-mail: stuff@lupwa.org


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast


1 edit
reply to eburger68
Things that make you go Hmmm.

Well, I have several OTHER applications that remove that crud from my computer... BAD move Lavasoft!

One more glimpse at the future?


Corrine
Premium
join:2004-08-27

reply to eburger68
B, I am sorry but I have no idea! I don't have access to the Research staff or the tools that they use. I leave evaluations to the professionals like Eric and CJ. As to Research's determination, again, all I have access to is the same public information, copied below. I am not a "tech

Threat Assessment Chart

(Removal): Given one point.

Determining factors:
Provides no uninstaller at all or non-functional application uninstaller.
Lacks clear evidence of intention. In other words, there is no available evidence to suspect the application's developer of intentionally making his/her software difficult to uninstall other than having a poorly coded or buggy uninstaller.

(Integration): Can cause system instability and is worth two points.

Determining factors:
This category is self-explanatory and refers only to the effect a given database candidate has on a user's system.

(Distribution): Unsolicited Install and is given two points.

Determining factors:
Intentionally hidden (stealth) install and/or clear evidence of Intention. The application is designed with the clear intention of either making it difficult or impossible to remove using normal removal procedures.
Bundled install that is undisclosed. This is different from number one in that it may contain an uninstaller, but there was no notice given to the user pre-install and/or the host application's EULA (End User License Agreement) attempts to hide the application's inclusion as a condition of the host application's install and/or use.
Program does not disclose info in EULA, has a confusing EULA, or a hidden EULA listing what is done with collected information.

(Behavior): Malware is given three points automatically regardless of the stated behaviors. All other intentional behaviors are given three points.

Determining factors:
Virus / Trojan Horse
Connects to perform or aid in a DDoS (Dedicated Denial of Service) attack.
Program masks as doing one thing, but does another.
Use or creation of Tracking Cookies.
Changes browsing results (browser hijack/redirect, replace text/graphics, opens random websites)
Operates in stealth (Runs hidden from the user).
Opens web sites not initiated by the user/unsolicited popups and/or requests to join a different site.
Auto-updates without user permission and/or knowledge.
Dials an unprompted or unauthorized Internet connection.
Opens or Exploits a System Vulnerability.

(Privacy): Privacy Violations are worth two points.

Determining factors:
Connects to a remote system with or without the user's awareness to transmit usage statistics and/or personally identifiable information.
Connects to a remote system without the user's awareness to transmit/receive information
Tracks the user's surfing habits.
»www.lavasoftnews.com/theeye/i12/a1.shtml

--
Corrine, Lavasoft Forum Administrator

Goldman

join:2002-06-21
Maumelle, AR

reply to eburger68
Could this explanation be any weaker. They tell us that "in case it turns out that the removal was incorrect"?!?! They know that whenU is one of the more intrusive pieces of garbage that can clutter your Windows installation. You can just feel the trust in Adaware withering away as they attempt to defend the inexcusable. It's really a shame.

Money talks...integrity walks.

B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28

reply to Corrine

Corrine See Profile, thanks for answering in any case.

One would really think that one of the TAC measurements should include prior TAC history! In other words, even if a spyware company like WhenU were to suddenly lessen its evil ways, you don't immediately give them a pass...

But that's somewhat a quibble. I would suggest, Corrine, that Lavasoft's official answer is not yet sufficient to satisfy my curiosity, at the least, and probably not enough to satisfy the concerns of many of its customers.

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function


hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12

reply to Corrine
said by Corrine See Profile:

»www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.ph···p=389520

Hi all,

First and foremost, Lavasoft does not have collaborations with any company that has or will have content detected by Ad-Aware. WhenU was indeed removed from our database by research in the last definition file. This was due to WhenU not scoring more than 2 TAC points at the time. In case it turns out that the removal was incorrect, WhenU will naturally be reintroduced to the database.

Thanks Chris Fry
www.lavasoft.de
If this is indeed the case, it seems you would have saved yourself some heartache and the trust of your end-users if you required spyware vendors to maintain a below threshold TAC score over a period of several consecutive months. Twenty-four months seems like a nice round figure.
--
Boundlessly expands the sky and nothing stops the white clouds from freely flying about.


antiserious
The Future ain't what it used to be
Premium
join:2001-12-12
Scranton, PA

reply to Corrine

... still doesn't pass the smell test, sorry ... and I would suggest that if WhenU passes your 'TAC' test, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate THOSE standards ... I think hpguru's suggestion of 'maintaining a below threshold TAC score over a period of time' is a much more prudent approach, especially since it's obvious to all that explaining your actions in advance is NOT in the Lavasoft game plan ...

... but hey, it's your company, your product, and YOUR credibility at stake - here's hoping that means something to you folks ...

... I bet their refund policy gets a workout in the next few days ... wonder if they have one ...

--
... "Nobody's perfect - well, there was this one guy, but we killed Him" ... Christopher Moore, 'Lamb' ...


Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse

reply to eburger68
After having read all this, and Lavasoft's rather weak
answer to questions that many people in this forum are
still asking of them (and others in the anti spyware
community are likely asking as well), I may not wait
until the end of the week to uninstall Ad Aware. It is
getting removed when I get home this afternoon. Trust
has been broken here, and Lavasoft's answer isn't
satisfactory to people who are concerned about this.
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.To RIAA/MPAA - You can sue but you can't catch everyone!


salzan
Experienced Optimist
Premium
join:2004-01-08
WA State


1 edit
reply to Corrine
So they are telling us that the inclusion of the warnings in Bearshare (and I assume all other WhenU containing software) was enough to lower the TAC to an "acceptable" level of 2?

Which 2?

What about all the existing installs done before this warning? Are they now undetected because WhenU is currently OK?

How about I install an archived version of Bearshare?

Personally, I'm just not buying into this lame response.

Kr0m

join:2000-10-26
Fredericton, NB

reply to antiserious
gah, this is horrible. Bad Lavasoft.. bad. I wonder how many other pieces of adware/spyware have been removed from their reference lists over the past months due to their 'ratings'.
I guess that's what I get for having 'blind' trust in a company's software. Now I have to go and tell people to remove ad-aware from countless PCs I've worked on, and to not support Lavasoft anymore.
--
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
reply to eburger68
Ya know, ever since one of our own regulars was fired from Lavasoft, they sure have gone into the crapper.

Talk about stepping in it!


StraitShoot
Who Loves Ya Baby? - Theo Kojak
Premium
join:2003-02-08
Clinton, MA


2 edits
reply to The sparrow4
said by The sparrow4 See Profile:



First and foremost, Lavasoft does not have collaborations with any company that has or will have content detected by Ad-Aware.
Why should we believe THAT statement, when trust is already out the window?
said by The sparrow4 See Profile:



WhenU was indeed removed from our database by research in the last definition file.
That statement ALONE pretty much says it all...

said by The sparrow4 See Profile:



This was due to WhenU not scoring more than 2 TAC points at the time. In case it turns out that the removal was incorrect, WhenU will naturally be reintroduced to the database.
Thanks Chris Fry
www.lavasoft.de
Well, according to Straitshoot's "H&IISP" Test (Hoenesty & Integrity in Spyware programs...), Lavasoft failed miserably, and Adaware will be swiftly and FOREVER removed from my home system today...
Bye Lavasoft!



Oremina
Tempus edax rerum
Premium
join:2004-06-02
England


2 edits
reply to dadkins
said by dadkins See Profile:

Ya know, ever since one of our own regulars was fired from Lavasoft, they sure have gone into the crapper.

Talk about stepping in it!
That thought had also crossed my mind, got to be worth a penny for his thoughts...and he sure as hell must be watching this thread.:)

Must say 'tho that I also feel just a bit sorry for Corrine who has to take all the flak as the "face" of Lavasoft, whilst whichever dum-dum made this daft decision hides away in his office somewhere.
--
Oremina

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