Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to B
Re: ASW Vendors in La-La Land
Hmm. Well somebody is certainly being less than forthright about legal threats and Lavasoft's purported removal of spyware listings from its definitions... either Hotbar, Eightball/Thundercloud, or Lavasoft. I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice... 
But there sure is a lot of smoke curling up from where there ought to be none...
--
If God wanted us to work with electrons, He'd make them big enough to see... |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| Smoke? I see a mushroom cloud! Lavasoft has effectively nuked themselves.
Side Note: Where was the "Notification" of HotBar being removed... besided the news? It sure wasn't included in the latest email...  |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| In all fairness to Lavasoft, this may just be old news.
It seems that back in September Lavasoft removed Hotbar, again due to claimed TAC satisfaction.
»www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.ph···l=hotbar
I can't find anything that conclusively shows a "threaten lawsuit and remove detections" scenario, unlike the documented new.net suit.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Thanks B! Still though, this is another log on the fire, eh? |
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Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to B
Hmm. Regarding that thread and this one, like Yogi Berra once said, "It's deja vu all over again!" I get the distinct feeling from Lavasoft's posture that if MyDoom were to come with a 9-page EULA, by Lavasoft's reasoning, the likes of Kav, Norton, McAfee and all the rest should remove it from their definition lists. And it seems the name of the game is now for the spyware houses to offer up EULAs, offer a mediocre, half-witted uninstaller, and pressure the anti-spy houses to give them a free pass.
--
If God wanted us to work with electrons, He'd make them big enough to see... |
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Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA | reply to eburger68
Dang, the longest followed thread in DSLR history, must be! |
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jimkyle
Btrieve Guy
Premium
join:2002-10-20
Oklahoma City, OK | Nope, there's an even longer one at »Pluto Data Credit Card Charge about the Pluto Data CC scam that's been going on for more than a month now... |
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Nufis
@195.62.x.x | reply to eburger68
For those of you who have actually purchased the softwares you don't trust any more, is there any possibility to sell them back to vendor and reclaim your money? It must be a very effective tool to push them to explain their steps. |
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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
| said by Nufis:
For those of you who have actually purchased the softwares you don't trust any more, is there any possibility to sell them back to vendor and reclaim your money? It must be a very effective tool to push them to explain their steps. Some companies allow this but within a time limit like 30 days or something.
--
Ant @ The Ant Farm: »antfarm.ma.cx ... Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use the forum (I check almost daily)! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer. |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| reply to Kiwi
said by Kiwi  :Dang, the longest followed thread in DSLR history, must be! I thought the one on Go-L/I was the longest one here  |
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mjmsr
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Lombard, IL
clubs:
| reply to eburger68
Do you recommend an alternative to Adaware?
I will often surf real close to the edge and sometimes (rarely) pick something up. I rarely have a problem, BUT in case I do, I'd like something a little more trusting than the purchased Adaware I currently have.
On a side note, I know of 2 occassions that 2 different people have had some seachbar (I forget which) placed on their system and their only adware protection/removal software was Adaware. In both cases it (Adaware) did not work. It was a manual process, long process that took it off....along with SpyBot.
I wish I would have read this thread earlier. I was questioning why Adawaqre was not doing its job, know I know. I think it is time to alk to the IT guys at work.
So, what is a good alternative? |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by mjmsr :Do you recommend an alternative to Adaware? I will often surf real close to the edge and sometimes (rarely) pick something up. I rarely have a problem, BUT in case I do, I'd like something a little more trusting than the purchased Adaware I currently have. On a side note, I know of 2 occassions that 2 different people have had some seachbar (I forget which) placed on their system and their only adware protection/removal software was Adaware. In both cases it (Adaware) did not work. It was a manual process, long process that took it off....along with SpyBot. I wish I would have read this thread earlier. I was questioning why Adawaqre was not doing its job, know I know. I think it is time to alk to the IT guys at work. So, what is a good alternative? Microsoft Anti-Spyware: »www.microsoft.com/athome/securit···ult.mspx |
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Cloudeight
@rr.com
 from:
dadkins
| reply to B
I have a letter dated 4/09/2004 regarding Hotbar's threats (first one) from ann@lavasoft.de asking for a copy of Hotbar's letter to us (Cloudeight) and my phone number. After I sent her the info she requested, I never heard from them (Lavasoft) again. That is the truth. I still have her letter.
The most recent threats to Cloudeight came in February and March 2005. The first threat came to us early 2004 in which they stated that they were suing Lavasoft for $6 million. Whether they actually filed suit or were threatening them with a suit for $6 million, I do not know. I just wanted you all to know that the threats from Hotbar are not new and now are a year old. The recent threats we (Cloudeight) received were much more threatening than the first one received early in 2004 in which Hotbar demaded we "cease and decease(sic)" from referring to their 'software' as adware or spyware. So, the fact that Lavasoft removed Hotbar in the fall of 2004 is not surprising to me at all. That would have given them four or five months to negotiate or make a settlement with Hotbar.
TC
Cloudeight Internet |
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tiagara
@rr.com
| reply to dadkins
Microsoft Anti-spyware now does not remove Hotbar either
If you read Microsoft's Whitepaper on Spyware, their definitions are so narrow that most software, we currently refer to as adware or spyware will not be detected.
If the EULA/TOS/TOU/Privacy Policy disclose what the program does (even if its buried on page 16 of 90 page document) then its not spyware.
If program displays ads in the "context of the program" (ala Hotbar's mystifying toolbar button ads and huge annoying flash) then it's not "adware". Hotbar's trickery to avoid the popup ad definition (narrow definition) of adware was to give the user an optio to "opt-out" of popup ads. In our tests it didn't work well.
In one instance while testing Hotbar, we typed in the simple search term "Horses" on Google...and as soon as we typed the word "Horses" and before even submitting the search to Google, suddenly all the Hotbar ads turned products related to "Horses". Can anyone spell KEYLOGGER?
Tiagara  |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Well, apparently my laptop doesn't like the HotBar website's download link... nothing happens when I click the button. 
It reminds me of the eAcceleration/Velos site(my laptop doesn't like that site's "Scan Now" button either!) I *WAS* going to see which one of my many AS apps would remove HotBar... too bad I cannot download it to find out!  ;):)
It was worth a shot. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
4 edits | reply to tiagara
69 detected | 
69 deleted | 
2 more registry entries | 
Two logon cookies ignored |
Let's see what happens when I tell MA AS to remove this crap...
MS AS successfully deleted all 69 items. 
Even removed the folder NavAccel was in! YMMV.
Looks like MS AS missed two registry entries that SpyBot S&D found/removed. No body's perfect.
Ad-Aware found two of my ignored logon cookies...
The only thing in the way of HotBar left on this machine is a website icon to HotBar's site. HotBar appears benign, they bundle the hell out of NavAccel though. I'll see if I can persuade some more of HotBar's crap to download tomorrow.
Good night all!
David |
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Hickerx2
God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY
| said by tiagara:Microsoft Anti-spyware now does not remove Hotbar either Looks like another MS hater
--
Kerry for President? Is this Saturday Night Live?....whew!....it was only a bad dream |
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WFO
Premium
join:2001-08-27
San Ramon, CA | reply to dadkins
Good job D!!! I almost PMed you to suggest disabling your defenses 1 by 1 till you got the download. I just figured you had your reasons for not doing so. And it was late. |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | reply to dadkins
Perhaps I missed it; did you give Ad-Aware a crack at it first? (Before MS AS whacked it.)
-- B
P.S. Time to get this thread past Page 38 already....
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Nope, Ad-Aware gets used mainly for kicks now...trust or reliance are out the window.
...and yes, I had to shut alot of things off just to download this BS. No worries, I always just reimage the drive back to my normal paranoid state. |
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