  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
2 edits | Municipal Broadband FINALLY gets attention
I've been ranting about this stuff for four years now, as state-by-state the incumbents lobbied for bills banning local towns and cities from wiring themselves for broadband.
I don't care if people disagree with governments getting into the broadband business, but banning them from deciding for themselves is insane and in no-way serves the country's best interests.
For whatever reason techno-advocates and mainstream outlets just hadn't been touching it.
They'd write 87 page diatribes on FRIENDSTER, but the future of the broadband industry as we know it just never got much press.
I don't know if they thought it was too obscure or what, but the Philly Wi-Fi vs. Verizon story really blew the whole thing up, and now it's the trendy topic for all techno-journalists.
No matter what side you fall on, it's something that needs to be talked about.
Finally over the last year or so it's getting some play by "famous" folks like Larry Lessig.
»www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.0···tml?pg=5
I know I get hate mail from free-market nuts for merely suggesting communities be allowed to decide for themselves what telecom path to follow, I can only imagine his inbox after this article:
quote: The private market has failed the US so far. At the beginning, we led the world in broadband deployment. But by 2004, we ranked an embarrassing 13th. There are many places, like Philadelphia, where service is lacking. And there are many places, like San Francisco, where competition is lacking. The result of the duopoly that currently defines "competition" is that prices and service suck. We're the world's leader in Internet technology - except that we're not.
The solution is not to fire private enterprise; it is instead to encourage more competition. Communities across the country are experimenting with ways to supplement private service. And these experiments are producing unexpected economic returns. Some are discovering that free wireless access increases the value of public spaces just as, well, streetlamps do. And just as streetlamps don't make other types of lighting obsolete, free wireless access in public spaces won't kill demand for access in private spaces. In economoid-speak, these public services may well provide positive externalities. Yet we will never recognize these externalities unless municipalities are free to experiment. That's why the bipartisan Silicon Valley advocacy group TechNet explicitly endorses allowing local governments to compete with broadband providers.
City and state politicians should have the backbone to stand up to self-serving lobbyists. Citizens everywhere should punish telecom toadies who don't. Backwater broadband has been our fate long enough. Let the markets, both private and public, compete to provide the service that telecom and cable has not.
|
|
  ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11 Davenport, IA | I am curious if you would rather see open system muni setups or closed?
Closed being only being able to use the local gov as the isp or open where you can choose any company who provides service on the muni network just like dsl. |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| It would depend on what works. All I ever want to see is each community being allowed to decide for themselves.
There are about a million ways to fund, construct, and run a muni-broadband system. I don't care how the people there vote.
My problem is with these bills that ban them from considering it, and the massive disinformation campaigns being waged to confuse and mislead voters. |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| NOW on PBS is offering up a special on muni-broadband, specifically focused on PA's Wi-Fi effort:
»www.pbs.org/now/
»www.pbs.org/now/politics/digidiv···ate.html
How long NOW before they begin digging into the stuff I've been talking about in Indiana, where Comcast/SBC spent a quarter million dollars vs. a small community outfit that spent $4,000.
Or Lafayette, where BellSouth has threatened to pull 1,300 jobs if the city builds a triple-play fiber network.
Few yet are touching on the use of Issue Dynamics Astroturf to feed disiniformation to consumers. That's a big part of this as well.
This is a very DEEP and very SLEAZY story that they've only brushed the surface of. |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | CNET wouldn't have touched a story like this six months ago:
»news.com.com/Lafayette+hits+snag···nefd.top |
|
 waynemr
join:2002-01-28 Madison, WI | reply to Karl Bode Free Press has also picked this up: »freepress.net/communityinternet/ |
|
  JTRockville Data Ho Premium,MVM join:2002-01-28 Rockville, MD clubs:
·LINGO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to Karl Bode said by Karl Bode :All I ever want to see is each community being allowed to decide for themselves. Looks like Copps (for one, anyway) agrees.
said by CNET News.com interview with Michael Copps, FCC Commissioner: Why our broadband policys still a mess by Jim Hu, February 28, 2005
...snip...
The Bells say that government should not be competing with the private sector. They are not out there trying to put broadband in the municipality. Where is the competition?
The Bells also say they're trying to protect residents from being unfairly taxed if such an infrastructure were to go belly-up. Well, a municipality is a democratically run institution. They can make their own decisions. They don't need the Bells. They don't need the Administration, and they don't need me telling them what kind of decision they should be making.
...snip...
Why in the world would the Bells be trying to protect residents?
Isn't it their duty to protect profits? |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| quote: Why in the world would the Bells be trying to protect residents?
Because "We don't want to have to work harder and potentionally lose revenue" isn't a very impressive argument from a PR standpoint.  |
|
  ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25 Atlanta, GA
| reply to Karl Bode My biggest concerns are as follows:
1.) As a resident of some township, do I get a real in whether a muni in setup? This is important to me because no doubt that if I disagree and the muni service get's setup I am having to front a portion of that bill.
2.) What qualifications are the city's IT people going to have? Are they going to be qualified to design, engineer, deploy, start-up and maintain a muni system reliably? Will none, some, or all of the WAN IT responsabilities going to be out-sourced to outside the community? Last time I check WAN IT people are not cheap, so I wonder what proficient staff my city would get.
3.) Are bids taken, or is the idea being sold by one or two equipment vendors desperate because of lost sales from the talco and cable industry? Are the spending-decisions being publicly made? Voted upon? By qualified people?
4.) Exactly how would a system be paid for? Vendor acting as lender, too? What about competitive bidding?
5.) What exact services will my government compete in in terms of usurping the free-market? Will this be voted upon by the residents? And will it be subsidized via an open system (like ppcpunk describes)?
6.) What protections will there be for the residents paying for the system? What benefits are to be prescribed for the residents? What economic losses, if any, resulting from government competing in the free market?
7.) What damage compensation will be yielded to residents for torn-up property during a system deployment, system maintenance, etc.?
8.) How do you advise your residents holding stocks and or bonds in those telco's and cable companies?
9.) How much would each resident be financially responsible for? Will this be a usage-defined burden, or based on another matrix? Can residents opt-out? And if someone cannot afford are their negative consequences therein?
Jesus, I could go on and on. I am no different than the next consumer and would love a cheaper monthly bill for my broadband, but I am not willing to financially burden someone else not interested in a muni effort just because I am interested in this luxuty. |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| All legitimate questions. All questions each town or city should sit down and discuss. There's about a million answers to each depending on how your town decides to fund/plan/build their solution.
The problem arises with the bills being passed to ban that discussion from taking place. |
|
  ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25 Atlanta, GA
| reply to Karl Bode My biggest fear is that very few will take part in the actual decision-making process, and the potential for corruption is at hand.
How many times have we seen corrupt city officials result in the debt being the burden of society. If there is going to be a debt, let a publicly-traded company or even a private company take the responsability. |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| quote: If there is going to be a debt, let a publicly-traded company or even a private company take the responsability.
Some municipal projects do just that and get their financing from private sources.
Trying to understand: do you approve of state-laws banning all towns and cities from considering the option? |
|
  tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
1 edit | reply to ColdFiltered said by ColdFiltered : My biggest fear is that very few will take part in the actual decision-making process, and the potential for corruption is at hand.
That is a concern. But isn't that a problem for the community to address?
said by ColdFiltered : How many times have we seen corrupt city officials result in the debt being the burden of society. If there is going to be a debt, let a publicly-traded company or even a private company take the responsability.
Probably about the same percentage we see in private industry. They too pass on the cost of their mistakes to taxpayers.
The issue here is not whether or not muni broadband a good idea. The fundamental principal is can the local community control its own destiny or is it beholden to the whims of the private sector?
If the local community does not want to have electricity or paved streets they ought to be able to decide for themselves. |
|
  ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25 Atlanta, GA
| reply to Karl Bode Karl, I have a problem with the government competing in the free market, yes. When the policy-makers and regulation enforcers present a not-for-profit competition what sane for-profit business is going to be willing to compete?
Example, other than Amtrak what other passenger rail service is there in the USA? When was the last time you answered your front door so that UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. could deliver junk mail? |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | So then you support banning communities from deciding for themselves what their best course of action is?
You, in Atlanta, support banning the citizens of Philadelphia from having a say in whether or not they want a city run Wi-Fi system? |
|
  ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25 Atlanta, GA
| reply to Karl Bode Um, I didn't say I was for or against Philly in what they do. I do say I think for my local government that it has no part in the free market without the expressed removal of regulations they might have imposed on the free market.
What good does it to have to compete against an entity that doesn't seek to profit? What good does it to compete against an entity that can make, alter, or remove policy and or regulation to suit its not-for-profit situation and hinder free-market competition?
To me, this sounds more like vendors skirting the telecommunications industry, encouraging locals that they can do it better, cheaper, etc. as if this is a solution you just add water to. And this isn't just about Philly. |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
1 edit | I notice you won't answer a direct question.
For the record, I don't care if you support government in business, that's obviously your right and you raise plenty of legitimate questions.
Plenty of citizens support the idea and have equally pointed questions to ask of you. It's part of the give-and-take of honest debate.
I'm asking you, do you support laws banning communities from running their own broadband networks (Wi-Fi or otherwise)? |
|
  ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25 Atlanta, GA
| said by Karl Bode :I'm asking you, do you support laws banning communities from running their own broadband networks (Wi-Fi or otherwise)? Karl, you move on false grounds.
It was not my intention to not answer the question at hand, but rather I poorly answered it, and in a manner I suppose some could not derive from my last reply.
Now, to directly answer your question: Yes, I would prohibit any effort by a community from competing in the free-market as a not-for-profit while they also still remain in control of potentially harmful policy-making and regulation-implementing mechanisms that could serve to unfairly give them an edge against for-profit businesses in the same free-market.
We could simply take the irrational limit of the activity and have the community setup prohibition on all for-profit organizations, too. Irrational? Yes. Possible? Yes.
A business without expertise can fail at someone else's financial expense. A community government failing is at the taxpayer's expense. I'm looking for balance, but I am looking more for taxpayer protection against inept and potentially illegal activities. |
|
  Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Ok, so you would ban communities from making that decision for themselves. That's the stance I have the problem with, not necessarily that you believe governments shouldn't compete with business.
It's the belief your belief supersedes all others, and that legal bans - not city by city debate, discussion, and votes - are an "answer".
When you, in Atlanta, begin to support the incumbent lobbying efforts to buy laws banning me in New York from voting on a local government run Wi-Fi system........I see that elimination of choice as far worse than any of the fiscal issues you fear. |
|
  ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25 Atlanta, GA
1 edit | reply to Karl Bode Actually, my belief is that if government wishes to compete they must do so either as a for-profit entity like everyone else, or remove restrictive market regulations that would otherwise only benefit the NFP entities.
Some seem more than willing to ignore the ration thought that for profit businesses cannot hope to compete in a market against a not-for-profit competitor, especially when the regulatory entity is controlled by that governing body that operates the NFP entity.
What I am suggesting is a level playing field. Others think they should tighten regulations on businesses and then grant muni free-reign competition activities that would seek to cause businesses to potentially fold. Its also why I suggested that Lafayette remove localized regulatory restrictions in the telecomunications arena if they wishes to compete in muni-broadband, or not compete at all.
Its not fair nor right to handcuff your compeititon and then compete without wearing handcuffs yourself. |
|