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ramf42
join:2005-03-15
Redwood City, CA

1 recommendation

ramf42

Member

Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops

If anybody has been experiencing serious reboots or hangs with their Netgear WGR614 WGT624 or WGT634. The problems seems to be hardware related (heating or power supply or both).

I had the problem and gave up on Netgear - bought a Linksys instead and it has been great.

The national law firm of Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP, is investigating consumer complaints concerning Netgear wireless routers. The complaints include allegations that the routers frequently drop connections, operate intermittently, and require frequent resetting and/or power cycling.

If you think this is happening to you, please go to »www.lieffcabraser.com/ro ··· aint.htm and provide more information.

You can get more information about the problems on Netgear support site at »forum1.netgear.com/suppo ··· tart=390
codydog
join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI

codydog

Member

How do you prove financial damages if a wireless router drops you? Just curious.

blohner
join:2002-06-26
Lehigh Acres, FL

blohner to ramf42

Member

to ramf42
So this will be another 'lawfirm get's rich - customer get's a $5 coupon?'.

I am all for vendors fixing their stuff (I have a WGR614 collecting dust in the basement - I gave up on it a while back) - but Class Action Suits generally don't benefit the consumer much IMHO...
hansmuff
join:2004-02-20
Exton, PA

hansmuff

Member

Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d

I fully agree with blohner. What do you hope to achieve? Get $5 back? And make Lawyers rich?
You won't get a better firmware or product from such a lawsuit. You will help drive Netgear into financial ruin. Great news for consumers, I guess.
You won't get my support.
ramf42
join:2005-03-15
Redwood City, CA

ramf42

Member

I run software development for a company that develops embedded products. Mobile - cellular space - not competing with Netgear - but I know what it means to deliver software products on difficult environment. If my company ever released a product with the defects that Netgear has (Check out the Netgear BBS for details – it seems to be defective power supply and heating in those units, and Netgear completely ignores the consumer complaints here) we would have to recalled it instantly. We know we would have gotten sued for much less then the mistakes Netgear have done. And this mechanism holds us accountable.

"Lawyers get rich on, consumer get nothing"
What are you basing your statement on?

Lawyers typically get 1/3 of what you get as consumer. At the most. So if you get $5, they get $1.66 for doing all the work and research upfront without any guarntees.

So if you like letting companies take advantage of you - which Netgear has done and continues to do with these models - go ahead and stay quite. If you want to get your money back - which is probably what is going to happen – and verify that it does not happen with the next product you buy, speak up.
codydog
join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI

codydog

Member

Since you feel so good about these lawyers, whats their hourly rate?

Personally, I would write to the judge and implore him/her to not include me in this lawsuit.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

i would not buy another Netgear product after my experience with support, netgear creates products that have faults and doesnt support them.
ImpetusEra
Premium Member
join:2004-05-19
00000

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Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops

$1.66 x the amount of affected units. When it comes to electronics there's two things to do. First look for reviews on it before you buy. Second thing is make sure to use it a lot after you buy it. If it doesn't suit your needs return it and exchange for a different product. Try a generic power adapter to see if it's power supply related. I haven't had any problems with any of my equipment. Lots of problems arise from what the user does and the environment it's on. I'm sure plenty of people have these units sitting in a direct beam of sunlight for half the day plugged into a power strip shoved up next to the heat register. Plenty of people probably have routers sitting on the dusty floor in their room with 3 days worth of dirty clothes piled on top of it then call it junk cause it overheats and locks up. Maybe they got their 2.4GHz cordless phone next to the wireless router on their desk. Or the microwave is 5 feet away from it. There's lots of factors in what can make equipment seem like junk, every product and all the vendors have consumer complaints so go ahead and run, but you can't hide.
Gorn
join:2002-09-16
Campbell, CA

Gorn

Member

Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d

Yeah, but when a LinkSys with a stock adapter shoved under a pile of dirty clothes in a beam of sunlight with a power strip next to the heat register works great, then the apologists for Netgear start looking really bad.

This is about principle, and about training companies to never.do.this.again.
Stoofa
join:2004-02-18
England

1 recommendation

Stoofa

Member

Oh look - a call to sue from the US.
Please shoot me if we ever get as bad as this in the UK.

What ever happened to simply returning an item if it doesn't work.
Then, vowing never to buy anything by that company again?
But no....there must be some suing going on which will make the end customer no money at all.
*Sigh*

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

Anav to ramf42

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to ramf42

Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops

Another example of NA eagerness to absolve oneself of any responsibility. Who did what research before buying. Which store sold you the product. Lots of ppl to look at before the marketer (and they dont really design and make their own to begin with ' perhaps you should look at the parts vendors!!) Suggest the answer is clear, better research before buying, if you want to boycott their products and tell your friends likewise, also viable. Sueing.....thats a cowardly act.

Shad0wlore
Premium Member
join:2004-06-15
USA

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Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d

Ok.. I'm a bit miffed about this whole deal. Let me get this straight.. something doesn't operate the way *YOU* feel it does... and as such, you are now looking into legal action... welcome to the good ole USA... The place where you can spill hot coffee on your crotch and sue for it.

As someone who has a number of contacts at Netgear, (and who has helped quite a number of people here fix their glitches from time to time) I'm really offended.

I can safely say that 75-90% of all the 'complaints' I've seen are nothing more than misinformed individuals, trying to use a product improperly.

The other thing to keep in mind, is the people here on BBR are the miniority of individuals using the products. For every 1 person here, there are probably 100 that aren't here.

Please don't waste the court system, the taxpayers, and these attorney's time.

Shadowlore
codydog
join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI

codydog

Member

It sounds more like a "green mail" lawsuit - where the plaintiff sues the defendant for some large sum, gets headlines and then agrees to settle for some other number.
It ends up being cheaper for the defendant to settle than to pay lawyer fees, lose worktime etc.

I'm just curious, as a question to the original poster, why not sue every router maker / pc builder as they all have had problems from time to time. In fact, based on your premise, why not sue every company alphabetically in the phonebook?
egou
join:2003-03-17
Sterling, VA

egou to ramf42

Member

to ramf42
For all of you sceptical about this law suit - what a consumer like myself to do when a product - in this case Netgear 614v4 - locks up every other day and its manufacturer is totally ignorant to it?
codydog
join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI

codydog

Member

I use a 614 v1 and it has been rock-solid for at least 12-15 months or so. All I ever did was upgrade the firmware since I bought it for $20 after rebate.

I've read all the endless trashing of netgear and honestly dont see it. I'm thinking of buying the 538 now cause this 614 has worked so well.

WiMStang
Not just another brick in the wall
Premium Member
join:2000-10-22

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Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops

I just bought the WGT624 from my local Staples and it has been up and running flawlessly for the last 3 days. I upgraded immediately and it now says Ver. 3. Had been running a Belkin Pre-N and this unit is every bit as strong in range. Returned the Belkin as it constantly reset itself and lost all settings. I hope I don't have to go through that BS again. So far, so good. Anyway a law suit is not the way to gain improved products as it sucks the life out of good companies. No, the best way is to return the product and register your complaint with the company so they can resolve the issue.
jrollo2
join:2005-03-17
San Diego, CA

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Member

to ramf42

Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d

Personally, I would be happy to see Netgear pay a large sum for producing this router, even if I don't see a dime.

How is it OK to produce a defective router, and then not revise the hardware and issue replacement equipment? I have the WGT634U, and it has been sitting collecting dust for months. I had to finally give up on using it.

And if this does make it to court, and we end up getting a winning verdict, it seems to me like the appropriate compensation would be a replacement router. That would be fine by me.
ramf42
join:2005-03-15
Redwood City, CA

ramf42

Member

Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops

As the original poster, I was asked to comment on some of the anti-class-actions comments. I don’t like the dogmatic tone of some of the comments - I prefer fact based, rationale concrete discussions and would be glad to continue to participate if that is what we will have.

First - about myself - I am a software executive in the mobile space. I know first hand what it takes - business and engineering wise - to develop and launch mass market embedded devices. The schedule pressures, the testing and QA process and the compromises made along the way. I make those decisions when it comes to my product line and I know what it means to think about liability. And just to verify – I am in the mobile space (Cellular) – not competing with Netgear in any way.

I have dealt with faulty products in the past - and have NEVER even got clause to the point that I thought I needed to sue to the manufacturer. Returned them. Found a workaround. Buried them in the basement.

This time, with Netgear, it was different. Three reasons:

1. The router problem is significant and many people experience it.
After two months of struggling with the unit and researching online forums, it became evident that this was a serious, recurring problem. And that Netgear must know about it. If you follow the discussions in the Netgear webs site (»forum1.netgear.com/suppo ··· tart=390) you will see the details. This is not a glitch that only I experienced, but a consistent problem that a significant portion (yes, not all – a few lucky fellows) of the customers are experiencing. It also seems to be related to either power supply or heating problem. I.e. not only software glitch, but bad hardware design.

2. Netgear fails to support the product properly
I have talked to Netgear support a few times total of a few hours. Customer support was in India, and they were useless. The discussions forums had much more info. A responsible company would have informed their support staff, and offered to replace the routers or refund the money. Instead, they wasted my time with the standard questions 'did you upgrade the firmware?' (Yes, I have and have also switched back to try the older version just in case it is bug you introduced in the latest version). Wouldn’t it be nice to have a notice on the website that they are aware of the problem and working on a fix? Special number to call if you have experienced the specific disconnect problems and need a new unit? No. Netgear has done nothing.

3. Netgear continues to sell the failing product. Netgear continues to sell the product as if it is perfect. They never acknowledge the problem and just continue to sell the product as if it is working great. This is dishonest.

So these three reasons led me to decide that in this case, investigating a class action against Netgear is justifiable. An irresponsible company that refuses to be accountable to a product they put out in the market - and for which me and many of you paid for and didn’t get the any value out of.

Hope this helps people understand why I took the step of starting a complaint. And just like somebody else said – all I am looking for is to get my money back. If enough of us insist on this, Netgear will learn the lesson.

R

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

Anav

Premium Member

Sounds like you made many mistakes for someone of such lofty position.

Crappy research of both product and support available BEFORE the purchase. (did you listen to some pimply faced expert at circuit city??)
Failed to return/switch faulty router in a timely manner, for a refund. Sounds like you can still get an RMA replacment and others seem to have reasonable results.
Heck you wouldn't cut it as the photocopy guy in some places, except if you used FedEx

I suggest you RMA it, when you get one that works, give it as a gift to an employee and then do your homework properly.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

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to DaveDude

Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d

said by DaveDude:

i would not buy another Netgear product after my experience with support, netgear creates products that have faults and doesnt support them.
look at dlink and say that netgear does not support anything.
egou
join:2003-03-17
Sterling, VA

egou to Anav

Member

to Anav
said by Anav:

Sounds like you made many mistakes for someone of such lofty position.

Crappy research of both product and support available BEFORE the purchase. (did you listen to some pimply faced expert at circuit city??)
Failed to return/switch faulty router in a timely manner, for a refund. Sounds like you can still get an RMA replacment and others seem to have reasonable results.
Heck you wouldn't cut it as the photocopy guy in some places, except if you used FedEx

I suggest you RMA it, when you get one that works, give it as a gift to an employee and then do your homework properly.
Has it ever occur to you that one may not notice problems right away, but only after a while, but by then the store would not take the product back?
As for research, I know I did do mine, did not find any negatives at the time.
But more importantly, I think you are missing the point. Netgear did and continues to sell a faulty product, for which they do not want to take responsibility. How do you deal with such a manufacturer? I think taking them to a court, just like you'd do if someone sold you a faulty item and would not replace it, is the right thing to do.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

1 recommendation

Anav

Premium Member

No argument on the poor quality and response. The way to counter that is to stop buying their products. Just reading through the netgear forum and posts will quickly paint an ugly picture. True it represents those not happy way more than those content but its still of value and should cause anyone to pause before buying. But Just look at the people frothing at the mouth to get the FVS318 version 3 LOL. Looks like it aint (boycott) going to happen anytime soon though. Anything that gives business to lawyers should be avoided, just like bad routers!!!
ImpetusEra
Premium Member
join:2004-05-19
00000

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Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops

Without solid numbers I don't think you can claim it to be a significant problem. For all anyone knows the percentage of affected units could be less than 10%. When it comes to product reviews your much more likely to see someone post a gripe about it than how happy they are with it. As an example take a look at a Ford forum. The number of posts regarding spark plug blowout would make you think every Ford with the V8-V10 is affected by this. I can tell you mine isn't though. But what stands out to people is all these posts of people saying how it happened to them and suddenly it's some huge problem. Manufacturers aren't entirely stupid. They investigate feedback regarding their product. Likely the case is this problem isn't widespread enough for it to be considered a problem. I highly doubt they'd continue to manufacturer the product if it was going to damage their reputation amongst a vast amount of their consumers. How many people have 100 viruses on their computer and tons of spyware then call it and Windows junk cause it locks up and crashes every 3 minutes? There's a lot of outside factors that can affect the operation of the router, but it's easier to assume the problem is the router rather than look at the whole picture and investigate if it's actually something causing a problem for the router. Lots of companies have their tech support based out of another country, these days it's hard to find one that isn't. The whole router was probably made there too. There isn't a company that doesn't start you off with the bottom of the pyramid level tech support. It only makes sense to follow a solution tree when it comes to tech support rather than a hit and miss approach at arriving to the solution of a problem.

suprleg
Abracadabra
Premium Member
join:2004-05-06
Garden Grove, CA
·Charter
Hitron E31N2V1

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Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d

I just purchased a Netgear WGT624 and yes I've had a few problems as well. The drivers that shipped with the unit refused to work on a 98SE box and once I ferreted out drivers that would work the router constantly looses sync and the signal is very weak at approximately 40'.
My question is this: has anyone had a good experience with this router? I'd like to hear something good or I probably will return it before the magic 15 days are up. Thanks
egou
join:2003-03-17
Sterling, VA

egou

Member

said by suprleg:

I just purchased a Netgear WGT624 and yes I've had a few problems as well. The drivers that shipped with the unit refused to work on a 98SE box and once I ferreted out drivers that would work the router constantly looses sync and the signal is very weak at approximately 40'.
My question is this: has anyone had a good experience with this router? I'd like to hear something good or I probably will return it before the magic 15 days are up. Thanks
See for yourself »forum1.netgear.com/suppo ··· .php?f=6

WiMStang
Not just another brick in the wall
Premium Member
join:2000-10-22

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I think I must be the lucky one...mine has been up and running for 7 days without a problem. I have added two wired and 3 wireless machines running everything from Windows 98 to XP to the mix. Nothing but great speeds and easy installs. I have nothing bad to say at this point and would expect this router to continue as is. I have mine set up high on a shelf and have no wireless phone in the office. I upgraded before adding machines and am running ver 3. Great buy at staples for about 50 bucks. Good luck everyone and I hope mine continues.
JoeARein4
Premium Member
join:2003-12-17
Berkley, MA

JoeARein4 to ramf42

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Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops

Yes Netgear has produced and marketed a less than perfect product. So have half the manufactures in the world. Yes NetGear support is poor. Few companies have good support on consumer products it they have any at all. I own a Netgear router and had all the reboot/disconnect problems. One day I installed a UPS and all my problems went away. It appears Netgear wireless routers are sensitive to power issues. We all know that the electric company supplies less that a perfect poser source to our homes. Maybe we should seek a class action against the electric company for a faulty power source that they know is faulty.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

Anav

Premium Member

Yes, but your toaster works fine, so you would lose!
ZyXEL tech support is very good.

Shad0wlore
Premium Member
join:2004-06-15
USA

Shad0wlore

Premium Member

Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d

True, but you have to admit, Anav, that ZyXEL products aren't exactly low level consumer products. The tech support offered by a company is only as good as the level of technical knowlege of the user.

If my mother-in-law called into ZyXEL's tech support.. I'd put $$$ on the fact they'd get frustrated

Don't get me wrong... I love their tech support, what little interaction I've had with them. But they, honestly, are dealing with a whole other level of user.

Shadowlore
Shad0wlore

Shad0wlore to JoeARein4

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to JoeARein4
Agreed on that point, Joe... I've seen some really funky issues disappear on alot of products once you plug them into a clean power source.

Shadowlore