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prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA

2 edits

10 recommendations

Porting Rules

Suddenly, the forum is full of porting complaints and even though I give the same answers to the various posts, new ones are popping up so I thought I'd give a brief overview of why porting is such a problem:

1. Porting rules only apply to RBOCs, CLECS, and ILECs. This includes big telephone companies, cell providers like Sprint Wireless and Verizon Wireless, and CLECs like Level 3. VOIP providers like P8 and Vonage are NOT telephone companies subject to porting laws. They own no telephones lines of their own. They lease them from a real telephone company like Level3 ( a CLEC). So complaining to the FCC about a VOIP company and porting won't get you far. They aren't telephone companies, not subject to porting rules, and the FCC isn't likely to deal with it.

2. A VOIP assigned number is usually owned by a CLEC and leased by the VOIP company who then assigns the number for use by you. The VOIP company is the actual "customer" for the phone number, not you. You have no rights to port an assigned VOIP number under portability laws. The CLEC owns the number, the VOIP company is the customer. We sublet the phone numbers from the VOIP company and we have no rights at all to port that number anywhere.

You can never expect to port an assigned VOIP number anywhere according to the portability rules.

Now, we've covered that VOIP companies ARE NOT telephone companies, not subject to porting rules, and do not own any telephone numbers, and when they assign you a number, they are the customer for the number and not you, and you can't port it. Let's move on to numbers you can port:

3. If you do have a phone number in your name from an ILEC, RBOC, or cell provider, you can port it to your VOIP provider who really ports it to their CLEC in your area. Remember, VOIP companies are not telephone companies, CLEC's are so your port is really to a CLEC, not the VOIP company. Incoming calls after porting will go to the CLEC's equipment, not your VOIP providers equipment.

Your number and the CLEC's exchange must be local to each other or you can't port it. That's why it's help to post your area code and exchange when asking for porting help. Someone can tell you whether you should be able to port the number to a VOIP provider but without your AC/exchange, there isn't much anyone can do except console you. "Point of presence" is the legal term here. If your number you want to port is in the same "point of presence" as a VOIP providers CLEC is, then you can port it.

Now, let's say your number and your VOIP providers CLEC are in the same point of presence. What can go wrong? Plenty.

Many telcos are slow to port their numbers, they have no incentive to do so. Your VOIP provider might be slow to initiate the port with the CLEC they use in your city. Or the CLEC who services you locally for your VOIP provider might be slow to accept the port. 3 different companies, all moving at a different pace, are involved in porting a number to a VOIP service. Anyone can cause problems or move slowly. Your VOIP provider might be the problem, or it might be your telco or it might be your local CLEC. Keep on all of them.

So for posting help: Post the area code and exchange of the number you want to port and hopefully, the area code and exchange of the VOIP provider you want to use or at least their name. Someone can check to see if they have a "point of presence" together. If not, no port. Secondly, the name on your phone bill has to match your VOIP bill or no port. Thirdly, you can't port a VOIP assigned number. Don't ask and it's not the VOIP providers fault.

If you want to check yourself, go to: »members.dandy.net/~czg/search.html
and type in your areacode in the NPA box and your exchange in the NXX box and click "submit". Then, when the "prefix search" page comes up, click on your areacode/exchange under "NPA-NXX" and you'll see all your local exchanges that are in your point of presence. They are NOT in numerical order but in order of rate centers so look slowly for your VOIP/CLEC's exchange. If it's in the list, then you can likely port your number. If it isn't in the list, then you probably cannot.

Well, that's a quick summary of the porting rules. It's not everything (like rural and small telcos might not be subject to porting rules at all) and other issues can arise but I think this covers what most people in this forum are asking/complaining about.

Exceptions and mistakes do happen. Rules are meant to be broken as the old saying goes. Some people have ported a VOIP assigned number elsewhere but it's a rarity and won't happen often. A VOIP company can "give up" their rights to a number if they want to but I wouldn't expect that to happen very often. What I've tried to do here is write how it's "supposed" to work, not how it may actually work for anyone. Good luck.


MillsapsPE
Premium
join:2003-01-31
New Braunfels, TX

Is it possible to make this a "sticky"?


Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
Reviews:
·Earthlink Cable ..
·VOIPO

3 recommendations

While you're posting the porting rules, it may be helpful to add a list of features that will cause a port to fail.


  • RingMaster/Distinctive Ring: I found out the hard way that this service will cause a port to fail. Those with this service have more than one phone# assigned to your line, and when the second or third numbers are dialed, a the line rings with a different pattern (e.g. double short ring or short-long-short ring).

  • DSL Flag: If you have ever had DSL on your phone line, you must be certain that the DSL service is canceled and your telephone provider has adjusted your account accordingly. Sometimes, even after canceling DSL, the account flag is not removed.

  • Local Carrier Freeze: I'm not exactly sure if it's called a Local Carrier Freeze, but similar to a PIC freeze with your long distance carrier, I'm certain you can tell your local telco to not change your service provider without explicit authorization from you. (Certainly, slamming is just as illegal for local service as it is for long distance service, so the local service must have the same protection options as long distance service.) The only way to remove this block from your line is to call your telco and ask them to remove it.


If any of these items are 'active' on your local telco account, you need to call your telco and be certain that they are inactivated on your account. Even then, you may not be able to initiate a port until the beginning of the following billing cycle.

If I missed any, or if anyone knows the correct term for a local carrier freeze, please add it to the thread!
--
{Earthlink 5M/384 cable (TWC) - Moto Surfboard 4220} - {Home network - WRT54G (HyperWRT 2.0b3 f/w)} - {ATTCV VoIP - Centillium MTA-1 (f/w 6.23L)}


tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
reply to prestonlewis

Outstanding write up. I've already seen people on these threads stating they reported to the FCC problems of people trying to call them (LEC to VoIP nr). FCC does't regulate cable and VoIP is just a service (like streaming audio) carried over the coax. So, unlike a Sprint switch which if goes down and blocks about 30k plus calls for more then 20 mins will get the FCC all over them plus fines in the millions for every minute thereafter they are down, you can loose your VoIP switch and as a VoIP user, you have no where to turn, except to cancel your service and switch back to a POTs line where they are accountable. But give it time. The more who jump onboard, the more the FCC will get involved.


byron
Premium
join:2004-06-16
Brooklyn, NY
reply to prestonlewis

i've said it before and i'll say it again.... preston, you're the LNP King!


TheKrell

join:2003-12-07
Fairfax, VA
reply to prestonlewis

OK, I'm trying to port a (703) 323-nnnn number from Phonom (VoIP wing of Cavalier Telephone) to SunRocket. The number was originally ported to Phonom from Verizon.

The Phonom TOS (I swear these changed while I wasn't looking) state that once I port my number to Phonom, it's theirs and they won't give it up! This theft of my number was the final straw and one of several reasons I'm now trying to port to SunRocket. Phonom service has actually been great, when they're not busy disconnecting me without warning for some spurious reason.

Should the porting rules apply to Phonom (as a wholly-owned subsidiary of a CLEC) or not?


byron
Premium
join:2004-06-16
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Time Warner Cable
reply to byron

setting features on a VOIP account such as "call forwarding" wouldn't affect an LNP would it? For example if I want to port my number from A to B, and in the meantime I set A to forward calls to B. That wouldn't prevent a port would it? If A were a POTS service I can see how it would, but since I'm just setting an option through the web interface I thought it might be different, but wanted to make sure.
--
I'm sick of looking at my Gmail invites, if you want one send me a PM with an email address.



bbrlogue
Learning New Things Daily
Premium
join:2003-12-07
Alexandria, VA
reply to prestonlewis

Good post. Another site for looking up NPA/NXX: »www.telcodata.us/telcodata/telco


IanR

join:2001-03-22
Fort Mill, SC
reply to prestonlewis

Well done Preston, a badly needed thread:)



prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
reply to prestonlewis

The Phonom TOS (I swear these changed while I wasn't looking) state that once I port my number to Phonom, it's theirs and they won't give it up!

Under porting rules, the number is controlled by the customer of record (you) and owned by the original telco that had the number. It's not Phonoms. Remember, Phonom is not a real phone company. Your number is actually ported to the CLEC that they have an agreement with in your area. Calls to your number go to your local CLEC's equipment. The CLEC then converts the call into data and forwards it on to Phonom's server. Porting is so new many people (VOIP, CLECs, and customers) just haven't figured out all the rules and often the rules are being broken in one way or another. Just keep paying your Phonom bill and keep calling them. Don't speak to a rep, speak to a supervisor. Maybe call your CLEC too and see what they have to say and whoever you want to port the number to.

This is a good case for why forum members really suggest you wait to port a number. I've had Vonage for a year very happily but I still am to worried to port my land line number over to Vonage who is the biggest VOIP player. No way would I port an important number to me over to a small time player like Phonom. With VOIP, your company could go bankrupt tomorrow, service can radically change . . .


lmjh7065
Premium
join:2001-04-04
Cincinnati, OH
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

reply to prestonlewis

Not only is Prestonlewis the LNP King, I nominate Preston as one of our VoIP gurus, especially faxing over VoIP.

Great posts Preston, now if we can just get everyone to remember this in the future.

Thank you for all your interesting posts/help in the past. We as forum members should be grateful - I am. Thanks again.


deliberate
Premium
join:2002-10-25

said by lmjh7065:

Thank you for all your interesting posts/help in the past. We as forum members should be grateful - I am. Thanks again.
Let me add my thanks and compliments for this great summary of LNP issues.

I sure hope the forum moderator will consider making this thread sticky so that it stays at the top of page 1 for all new visitors to read and understand.

Cheers,
- Don


Packet 8

join:2005-01-21
Dayton, OH

I have always tried to tell people that it isn't JUST the VoIP providers who might be slowing down the LNP process.

Great Post by the way!!!Two thumbs up

Reasons a Number Cannot be Ported.

# Rate center not complete - Rate center of the number requested does not support porting, but will be able to support porting in a matter of months.
# Telephone Number is Wireless we cannot port wireless numbers to Level3 at this time.
# Cannot Port 800#
# No ICA there current carrier doesn’t have Interconnection agreement with Level3. (legal reasons)
# Number is no longer in service.

Reasons for LNP Request to be Rejected during the Porting Process in Level3.

# 800 number are being directed to the TELEPHONE NUMBER being Ported.
# Level3 request for the customer's LOA and Billing again.
# Customer has requested a freeze on their account that does not allow the account to be ported.
# Distinctive Ring on line.
# DSL on line.
# End User is already porting the numbers.
# Name and address are different than what appeared on the LNP request.
# Telephone number is already disconnected.
# The billing names do not match.
# The service address is different from the address on the LNP Request.
# Telephone number not found.
# XO customer - XO requires customers to go to their website to fill our a release.
# This telephone number is wireless and can not be ported.
--
A Packet8 Reseller



ruscorp
I Never Stop Posting For You
Premium
join:2002-08-29
Earth

1 edit
reply to prestonlewis

What if you port a number from a RBOC like Verizon to a VoIP like SunRocket. After a few months with SunRocket you are unhappy with them and decide to migrate to a different VoIP provider like Vonage.

How does that work? Does it work at all?
--
I'm sorry. These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy. - RuS Corporation X



prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
reply to prestonlewis

What if you port a number from a RBOC like Verizon to a VoIP like SunRocket. After a few months with SunRocket you are unhappy with them and decide to migrate to a different VoIP provider like Vonage.
How does that work? Does it work at all?


Well, the porting rules supposedly state that the customer of record controls the number as long as he/she has it. The owner of the number (telco/cell/CLEC/ILEC/RBOC) will always own the number and will get it back if the customer of record loses the number. So, for migrating to another telco service, you should be able to do it bearing in mind the account names must be the same at your new porting home and the new porting telco must be in your "point of presence" or local calling area. Some people have ported a number directly from one VOIP provider to another, others have had problems. You might consider porting the number back to it's owner (ILEC,RBOC,CLEC,Cell) first and then porting it again to your new provider if problems crop up. But theoretically, you can port the number as many times as you like as long as you remain the customer of record. However, due to the newness of porting, mistakes & accidents happen. My advice would be to think long and hard before porting, period. Someone's mistake might cost you your number or any ignorance on your part concerning the rules might also cost you the number. Be careful, understand all the steps, risks, etc. Until porting becomes commonplace, a lot of people will not understand how it works, like the Phonom customer service rep that says Phonom now "owns" someone's ported number, which of course is incorrect.


lestat99

join:2000-08-04
Piscataway, NJ
reply to prestonlewis

So with this in mind, if someone is using the VoIP service from Verizon or AT&T then they could complain to the FCC if the numbers are not ported out of their service since both of these companies are ILEC and IXCs. Correct?



usa2k
Blessed
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

2 edits

Re: Porting Rules: Kinda OT :(

I was under the impression that AT&T got their numbers indirectly too -- I'll look for that thread. (It explained as I recall why they did not have local service at all ATT Land-Line Rate Centers.)

EDIT: Can't seem to remember who holds many of the ATT CV numbers? (Help anyone?)

EDIT2: Had to go part way through sign-up to see what was available. NOTHING LOCAL for me!!!!

I selected a 248-242 number »www.telcodata.us/telcodata/telco···ange=242

And the middle-man company I was remembering is TELEPORT COMMUNICATIONS GROUP AMERICA.

The point is: I don't think ATT CV is considered a CLEC (or what-ever the right terminology is) and is likely no more accountable than Vonage would be.



illek
Premium
join:2005-03-23
Tulsa, OK

1 edit
reply to Packet 8

Re: Porting Rules

"# Telephone Number is Wireless we cannot port wireless numbers to Level3 at this time."

WHY DON"T YOU TELL YOUR CUSTOMERS THIS IN ADVANCE?!?!

I sat for weeks waiting for Packet8 to port my wireless number, faxed the forms in several times at P8's request and finally received an email stating that "My number could not be ported". No explanation. Why not just lay out the rules in advance and save your customers the frustration of going through your convoluted, unsupported LNP process.

edit: PS- Thanks, Preston, for an EXCELLENT post.



ruscorp
I Never Stop Posting For You
Premium
join:2002-08-29
Earth
reply to prestonlewis

I hope the VoIP providers will port back to RBOC's like Verizon.



jmich
Premium
join:2001-08-28
Toms River, NJ
reply to prestonlewis

how nice of you to take the time to spell all this out for us VoIP newbees



charterengr
Premium,VIP
join:2002-03-09
Englewood, CO
reply to prestonlewis

Here's an interesting one. When we went to sign up for AT&T CallVantage, our phone company Talk America, said they couldn't port. So we went back to BellSouth, who was able to port our number back from Talk America, then a month later, we ported over to AT&T CallVantage (from BellSouth). So there are a few tricks you can play at times.......
--
Want the most out of BBR? Visit our help page: »members.cox.net/coxengr/dslr_help



oooooo

@snantx.swbell.ne
reply to lestat99

The requirements for LEC to ports numbers does not apply to those provided for VoIP, so Verizon nro AT&T would be required to port their VoIP numbers.



SmallCityGuy

@shawcable.net
reply to prestonlewis

Yes, very good post. My nagging question is why LNP has not hit most smaller cities yet. I'm sure it comes down to population vs cost of implementation or something like that. Still, even a smaller city has 100's of thousands of potential customers. I know carrier class softswitches or whatever they need to do this are expensive but it seems to me that the cost is still low vs the amount of potential business generated.



Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
reply to prestonlewis

It just amazes me that number porting takes so long when it comes to VOIP. Last time I switched cellular companies (I do it a lot!), my number was fully ported and I was receiving incoming calls on my new phone by the time I got home from the store. It took literally 10 minutes.



roamer1
sticking it out at you

join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

said by Jeremy341:

It just amazes me that number porting takes so long when it comes to VOIP. Last time I switched cellular companies (I do it a lot!), my number was fully ported and I was receiving incoming calls on my new phone by the time I got home from the store. It took literally 10 minutes.
Wireless porting is HIGHLY automated compared to wireline porting...plus there are simply fewer wireless carriers to begin with.

As for why you can't (usually) port a wireless number to VoIP: there is, oddly enough, NO requirement for wireless-to-wireline portability.

-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend


DolanFan2

@optonline.net

I have been waiting 6 weeks for the port of my number from Verizon to Vonage. I had a tentative date that came and went 2 weeks ago with no real explanation. I have not contacted Verizon at all, but have left it up to Vonage. There are no features on my line, but I am not sure about local carrier freeze. Should I contact Verizon to ask? Is there a special number or words to use or department to ask for to insure the port gets expedited? Nice thread.. the FCC should read this...


gilgamesh0

join:2003-12-01
Seattle, WA

LNP and RCF nightmare

What about RCF (Remote Call Forwarding)? Anyone found that this causes complications with a port?

I changed my Qwest number to be an RCF number before moving specifically because I found other posts in which people recommended making one's number an RCF number before porting to Vonage. I set up my Sunrocket account in January and requested the LNP shortly afterward -- the port was rejected 3-4 weeks later due to "being a remote call forwarding number". Qwest, after talking to them a couple of times, confirmed that there is no reason the number can't be ported -- I've spoken with SR a dozen times, they resubmitted the request once, it failed again, then they resubmitted it last week. Today I called to check on it and the guy's supervisor now says they don't port RCF numbers (mind you, this is 2 and a half months after my initial request), even though it says nothing about this under porting limitations, and even though there is no reason in principle it should be an issue. He is going to email provisioning and find out why it is an issue -- I've not yet actually *spoken* to their provisioning dept, though they had promised to call me numerous times.

Anyone else had an issue with LNP and RCF? I suppopse I can ultimately install the physical line connection to this place with Qwest, and then resubmit the request, but it is ridiculous to have to go through that process (and expense). I can't figure out wtf is going on with this, when so many people have ported RCF numbers to Vonage. Argh!

--Adam



tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
reply to Packet 8

Re: Porting Rules

"# Customer has requested a freeze on their account that does not allow the account to be ported"

Not true, I got an email from SR saying my LNP could not happen because of the "freeze".. But, same day,, 2 hrs later, another email saying it was done. No one called to verify or anything. My LN is now ported to Sunrocket. So much for putting a "freeze" on my number.



tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
reply to prestonlewis

Oh, to make matters even more interesting. SBC is the big LEC around here. A few years ago, MCI and Sprint came in and bought "blocks" of lines to resale. Well, I went from SBC to MCI back to SBC then to Sprint. Sprint was my local/LD carrier. So, I remember telling them when I signed up that I wanted my number blocked from "slamming". So, not sure what SR did but one minute, it was a no go, 2hrs later, it was a go. Sprint is just too easy.


wphelps

join:2002-10-30
Newport News, VA
reply to TheKrell

FYI: As someone who saw the TOS before it was released to the public, I can tell you the the "assignment of rights to the phone number" paragraph was in there since day one.

But, to help you with your disconnect problem, I have 2 questions.
1) Is Phonom/Cavalier also your ISP?
2) Do you have the DVC outside any firewalls?

William
--
NuPort Enterprises, Inc. (800)321-6753