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prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
 ·VoiceStick
2 edits | Porting Rules Suddenly, the forum is full of porting complaints and even though I give the same answers to the various posts, new ones are popping up so I thought I'd give a brief overview of why porting is such a problem:
1. Porting rules only apply to RBOCs, CLECS, and ILECs. This includes big telephone companies, cell providers like Sprint Wireless and Verizon Wireless, and CLECs like Level 3. VOIP providers like P8 and Vonage are NOT telephone companies subject to porting laws. They own no telephones lines of their own. They lease them from a real telephone company like Level3 ( a CLEC). So complaining to the FCC about a VOIP company and porting won't get you far. They aren't telephone companies, not subject to porting rules, and the FCC isn't likely to deal with it.
2. A VOIP assigned number is usually owned by a CLEC and leased by the VOIP company who then assigns the number for use by you. The VOIP company is the actual "customer" for the phone number, not you. You have no rights to port an assigned VOIP number under portability laws. The CLEC owns the number, the VOIP company is the customer. We sublet the phone numbers from the VOIP company and we have no rights at all to port that number anywhere.
You can never expect to port an assigned VOIP number anywhere according to the portability rules.
Now, we've covered that VOIP companies ARE NOT telephone companies, not subject to porting rules, and do not own any telephone numbers, and when they assign you a number, they are the customer for the number and not you, and you can't port it. Let's move on to numbers you can port:
3. If you do have a phone number in your name from an ILEC, RBOC, or cell provider, you can port it to your VOIP provider who really ports it to their CLEC in your area. Remember, VOIP companies are not telephone companies, CLEC's are so your port is really to a CLEC, not the VOIP company. Incoming calls after porting will go to the CLEC's equipment, not your VOIP providers equipment.
Your number and the CLEC's exchange must be local to each other or you can't port it. That's why it's help to post your area code and exchange when asking for porting help. Someone can tell you whether you should be able to port the number to a VOIP provider but without your AC/exchange, there isn't much anyone can do except console you. "Point of presence" is the legal term here. If your number you want to port is in the same "point of presence" as a VOIP providers CLEC is, then you can port it.
Now, let's say your number and your VOIP providers CLEC are in the same point of presence. What can go wrong? Plenty.
Many telcos are slow to port their numbers, they have no incentive to do so. Your VOIP provider might be slow to initiate the port with the CLEC they use in your city. Or the CLEC who services you locally for your VOIP provider might be slow to accept the port. 3 different companies, all moving at a different pace, are involved in porting a number to a VOIP service. Anyone can cause problems or move slowly. Your VOIP provider might be the problem, or it might be your telco or it might be your local CLEC. Keep on all of them.
So for posting help: Post the area code and exchange of the number you want to port and hopefully, the area code and exchange of the VOIP provider you want to use or at least their name. Someone can check to see if they have a "point of presence" together. If not, no port. Secondly, the name on your phone bill has to match your VOIP bill or no port. Thirdly, you can't port a VOIP assigned number. Don't ask and it's not the VOIP providers fault.
If you want to check yourself, go to: »members.dandy.net/~czg/search.html
and type in your areacode in the NPA box and your exchange in the NXX box and click "submit". Then, when the "prefix search" page comes up, click on your areacode/exchange under "NPA-NXX" and you'll see all your local exchanges that are in your point of presence. They are NOT in numerical order but in order of rate centers so look slowly for your VOIP/CLEC's exchange. If it's in the list, then you can likely port your number. If it isn't in the list, then you probably cannot.
Well, that's a quick summary of the porting rules. It's not everything (like rural and small telcos might not be subject to porting rules at all) and other issues can arise but I think this covers what most people in this forum are asking/complaining about.
Exceptions and mistakes do happen. Rules are meant to be broken as the old saying goes. Some people have ported a VOIP assigned number elsewhere but it's a rarity and won't happen often. A VOIP company can "give up" their rights to a number if they want to but I wouldn't expect that to happen very often. What I've tried to do here is write how it's "supposed" to work, not how it may actually work for anyone. Good luck. | |
|  MillsapsPE
Premium
join:2003-01-31
New Braunfels, TX | Re: Porting Rules Is it possible to make this a "sticky"? | |
| | Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: Porting Rules While you're posting the porting rules, it may be helpful to add a list of features that will cause a port to fail.
•RingMaster/Distinctive Ring: I found out the hard way that this service will cause a port to fail. Those with this service have more than one phone# assigned to your line, and when the second or third numbers are dialed, a the line rings with a different pattern (e.g. double short ring or short-long-short ring).
•DSL Flag: If you have ever had DSL on your phone line, you must be certain that the DSL service is canceled and your telephone provider has adjusted your account accordingly. Sometimes, even after canceling DSL, the account flag is not removed.
•Local Carrier Freeze: I'm not exactly sure if it's called a Local Carrier Freeze, but similar to a PIC freeze with your long distance carrier, I'm certain you can tell your local telco to not change your service provider without explicit authorization from you. (Certainly, slamming is just as illegal for local service as it is for long distance service, so the local service must have the same protection options as long distance service.) The only way to remove this block from your line is to call your telco and ask them to remove it.
If any of these items are 'active' on your local telco account, you need to call your telco and be certain that they are inactivated on your account. Even then, you may not be able to initiate a port until the beginning of the following billing cycle.
If I missed any, or if anyone knows the correct term for a local carrier freeze, please add it to the thread! 
--
{Earthlink 5M/384 cable (TWC) - Moto Surfboard 4220} - {Home network - WRT54G (HyperWRT 2.0b3 f/w)} - {ATTCV VoIP - Centillium MTA-1 (f/w 6.23L)} | |
| | | 
BIG b
Premium
join:2002-11-23
Connersville, IN | Re: Porting Rules I ported my number to VOIP with DSL active on my line.
--
Visit my site @ www.n9dvd.com | |
| 
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Outstanding write up. I've already seen people on these threads stating they reported to the FCC problems of people trying to call them (LEC to VoIP nr). FCC does't regulate cable and VoIP is just a service (like streaming audio) carried over the coax. So, unlike a Sprint switch which if goes down and blocks about 30k plus calls for more then 20 mins will get the FCC all over them plus fines in the millions for every minute thereafter they are down, you can loose your VoIP switch and as a VoIP user, you have no where to turn, except to cancel your service and switch back to a POTs line where they are accountable. But give it time. The more who jump onboard, the more the FCC will get involved. | |
| BbrewerG
Premium
join:2004-06-16
New York, NY | i've said it before and i'll say it again.... preston, you're the LNP King! | |
| | BbrewerG
Premium
join:2004-06-16
New York, NY
 ·New York Connect
| Re: Porting Rules setting features on a VOIP account such as "call forwarding" wouldn't affect an LNP would it? For example if I want to port my number from A to B, and in the meantime I set A to forward calls to B. That wouldn't prevent a port would it? If A were a POTS service I can see how it would, but since I'm just setting an option through the web interface I thought it might be different, but wanted to make sure.
--
I'm sick of looking at my Gmail invites, if you want one send me a PM with an email address. | |
| TheKrell
join:2003-12-07
Fairfax, VA
·Cox HSI
| OK, I'm trying to port a (703) 323-nnnn number from Phonom (VoIP wing of Cavalier Telephone) to SunRocket. The number was originally ported to Phonom from Verizon.
The Phonom TOS (I swear these changed while I wasn't looking) state that once I port my number to Phonom, it's theirs and they won't give it up! This theft of my number was the final straw and one of several reasons I'm now trying to port to SunRocket. Phonom service has actually been great, when they're not busy disconnecting me without warning for some spurious reason.
Should the porting rules apply to Phonom (as a wholly-owned subsidiary of a CLEC) or not? | |
| | wphelps
join:2002-10-30
Newport News, VA
| Re: Porting Rules FYI: As someone who saw the TOS before it was released to the public, I can tell you the the "assignment of rights to the phone number" paragraph was in there since day one.
But, to help you with your disconnect problem, I have 2 questions.
1) Is Phonom/Cavalier also your ISP?
2) Do you have the DVC outside any firewalls?
William
--
NuPort Enterprises, Inc. (800)321-6753 | |
| | IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ | Well done Preston, a badly needed thread:) | |
|
prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
·VoiceStick
| The Phonom TOS (I swear these changed while I wasn't looking) state that once I port my number to Phonom, it's theirs and they won't give it up!
Under porting rules, the number is controlled by the customer of record (you) and owned by the original telco that had the number. It's not Phonoms. Remember, Phonom is not a real phone company. Your number is actually ported to the CLEC that they have an agreement with in your area. Calls to your number go to your local CLEC's equipment. The CLEC then converts the call into data and forwards it on to Phonom's server. Porting is so new many people (VOIP, CLECs, and customers) just haven't figured out all the rules and often the rules are being broken in one way or another. Just keep paying your Phonom bill and keep calling them. Don't speak to a rep, speak to a supervisor. Maybe call your CLEC too and see what they have to say and whoever you want to port the number to.
This is a good case for why forum members really suggest you wait to port a number. I've had Vonage for a year very happily but I still am to worried to port my land line number over to Vonage who is the biggest VOIP player. No way would I port an important number to me over to a small time player like Phonom. With VOIP, your company could go bankrupt tomorrow, service can radically change . . . | |
| lmjh7065
Premium
join:2001-04-04
Cincinnati, OH
·QuantumVoice
| Not only is Prestonlewis the LNP King, I nominate Preston as one of our VoIP gurus, especially faxing over VoIP.
Great posts Preston, now if we can just get everyone to remember this in the future.
Thank you for all your interesting posts/help in the past. We as forum members should be grateful - I am. Thanks again. | |
| | deliberate
Premium
join:2002-10-25
| Re: Porting Rules said by lmjh7065  :Thank you for all your interesting posts/help in the past. We as forum members should be grateful - I am. Thanks again. Let me add my thanks and compliments for this great summary of LNP issues.
I sure hope the forum moderator will consider making this thread sticky so that it stays at the top of page 1 for all new visitors to read and understand.
Cheers,
- Don | |
| | | 
Packet 8
join:2005-01-21
Dayton, OH
| Re: Porting Rules I have always tried to tell people that it isn't JUST the VoIP providers who might be slowing down the LNP process.
Great Post by the way!!!Two thumbs up
Reasons a Number Cannot be Ported.
# Rate center not complete - Rate center of the number requested does not support porting, but will be able to support porting in a matter of months.
# Telephone Number is Wireless we cannot port wireless numbers to Level3 at this time.
# Cannot Port 800#
# No ICA there current carrier doesn’t have Interconnection agreement with Level3. (legal reasons)
# Number is no longer in service.
Reasons for LNP Request to be Rejected during the Porting Process in Level3.
# 800 number are being directed to the TELEPHONE NUMBER being Ported.
# Level3 request for the customer's LOA and Billing again.
# Customer has requested a freeze on their account that does not allow the account to be ported.
# Distinctive Ring on line.
# DSL on line.
# End User is already porting the numbers.
# Name and address are different than what appeared on the LNP request.
# Telephone number is already disconnected.
# The billing names do not match.
# The service address is different from the address on the LNP Request.
# Telephone number not found.
# XO customer - XO requires customers to go to their website to fill our a release.
# This telephone number is wireless and can not be ported.
--
A Packet8 Reseller | |
| | | | 
illek
Premium
join:2005-03-23
Tulsa, OK
1 edit | Re: Porting Rules "# Telephone Number is Wireless we cannot port wireless numbers to Level3 at this time."
WHY DON"T YOU TELL YOUR CUSTOMERS THIS IN ADVANCE?!?!
I sat for weeks waiting for Packet8 to port my wireless number, faxed the forms in several times at P8's request and finally received an email stating that "My number could not be ported". No explanation. Why not just lay out the rules in advance and save your customers the frustration of going through your convoluted, unsupported LNP process.
edit: PS- Thanks, Preston, for an EXCELLENT post. | |
| | | |
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| "# Customer has requested a freeze on their account that does not allow the account to be ported"
Not true, I got an email from SR saying my LNP could not happen because of the "freeze".. But, same day,, 2 hrs later, another email saying it was done. No one called to verify or anything. My LN is now ported to Sunrocket. So much for putting a "freeze" on my number.  | |
| |
prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
·VoiceStick
| What if you port a number from a RBOC like Verizon to a VoIP like SunRocket. After a few months with SunRocket you are unhappy with them and decide to migrate to a different VoIP provider like Vonage.
How does that work? Does it work at all?
Well, the porting rules supposedly state that the customer of record controls the number as long as he/she has it. The owner of the number (telco/cell/CLEC/ILEC/RBOC) will always own the number and will get it back if the customer of record loses the number. So, for migrating to another telco service, you should be able to do it bearing in mind the account names must be the same at your new porting home and the new porting telco must be in your "point of presence" or local calling area. Some people have ported a number directly from one VOIP provider to another, others have had problems. You might consider porting the number back to it's owner (ILEC,RBOC,CLEC,Cell) first and then porting it again to your new provider if problems crop up. But theoretically, you can port the number as many times as you like as long as you remain the customer of record. However, due to the newness of porting, mistakes & accidents happen. My advice would be to think long and hard before porting, period. Someone's mistake might cost you your number or any ignorance on your part concerning the rules might also cost you the number. Be careful, understand all the steps, risks, etc. Until porting becomes commonplace, a lot of people will not understand how it works, like the Phonom customer service rep that says Phonom now "owns" someone's ported number, which of course is incorrect. | |
| | | lestat99
join:2000-08-04
Piscataway, NJ | So with this in mind, if someone is using the VoIP service from Verizon or AT&T then they could complain to the FCC if the numbers are not ported out of their service since both of these companies are ILEC and IXCs. Correct? | |
| | | | 
oooooo
@swbell.ne | Re: Porting Rules The requirements for LEC to ports numbers does not apply to those provided for VoIP, so Verizon nro AT&T would be required to port their VoIP numbers. | |
| 
jmich
Premium
join:2001-08-28
Toms River, NJ
clubs: | how nice of you to take the time to spell all this out for us VoIP newbees | |
| | barrasso76
join:2004-09-05
Alfred, ME
| Re: Porting Rules Ehhh my god..This is my job at bayring.com all i do is lnp and hot cut numbers all day...Npac is my friend..You know u can port your number over faster if u ask hard..90% of my lnps and hot cuts are from ver...At&t and new england voice suck..BUt like i said lnp a number is easy for me ,its my job:) | |
| 
coxengr
Premium,VIP
join:2002-03-09
Atlanta, GA
| Here's an interesting one. When we went to sign up for AT&T CallVantage, our phone company Talk America, said they couldn't port. So we went back to BellSouth, who was able to port our number back from Talk America, then a month later, we ported over to AT&T CallVantage (from BellSouth). So there are a few tricks you can play at times.......
--
Want the most out of BBR? Visit our help page: »members.cox.net/coxengr/dslr_help | |
|
SmallCityGuy
@shawcable.net
| Yes, very good post. My nagging question is why LNP has not hit most smaller cities yet. I'm sure it comes down to population vs cost of implementation or something like that. Still, even a smaller city has 100's of thousands of potential customers. I know carrier class softswitches or whatever they need to do this are expensive but it seems to me that the cost is still low vs the amount of potential business generated. | |
| 
Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
| It just amazes me that number porting takes so long when it comes to VOIP. Last time I switched cellular companies (I do it a lot!), my number was fully ported and I was receiving incoming calls on my new phone by the time I got home from the store. It took literally 10 minutes. | |
| | 
roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: Porting Rules said by Jeremy341 :It just amazes me that number porting takes so long when it comes to VOIP. Last time I switched cellular companies (I do it a lot!), my number was fully ported and I was receiving incoming calls on my new phone by the time I got home from the store. It took literally 10 minutes. Wireless porting is HIGHLY automated compared to wireline porting...plus there are simply fewer wireless carriers to begin with.
As for why you can't (usually) port a wireless number to VoIP: there is, oddly enough, NO requirement for wireless-to-wireline portability.
-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
| | |
DolanFan2
@optonline.net
| Re: Porting Rules I have been waiting 6 weeks for the port of my number from Verizon to Vonage. I had a tentative date that came and went 2 weeks ago with no real explanation. I have not contacted Verizon at all, but have left it up to Vonage. There are no features on my line, but I am not sure about local carrier freeze. Should I contact Verizon to ask? Is there a special number or words to use or department to ask for to insure the port gets expedited? Nice thread.. the FCC should read this... | |
| | | | gilgamesh0
join:2003-12-01
Seattle, WA
| LNP and RCF nightmare What about RCF (Remote Call Forwarding)? Anyone found that this causes complications with a port?
I changed my Qwest number to be an RCF number before moving specifically because I found other posts in which people recommended making one's number an RCF number before porting to Vonage. I set up my Sunrocket account in January and requested the LNP shortly afterward -- the port was rejected 3-4 weeks later due to "being a remote call forwarding number". Qwest, after talking to them a couple of times, confirmed that there is no reason the number can't be ported -- I've spoken with SR a dozen times, they resubmitted the request once, it failed again, then they resubmitted it last week. Today I called to check on it and the guy's supervisor now says they don't port RCF numbers (mind you, this is 2 and a half months after my initial request), even though it says nothing about this under porting limitations, and even though there is no reason in principle it should be an issue. He is going to email provisioning and find out why it is an issue -- I've not yet actually *spoken* to their provisioning dept, though they had promised to call me numerous times.
Anyone else had an issue with LNP and RCF? I suppopse I can ultimately install the physical line connection to this place with Qwest, and then resubmit the request, but it is ridiculous to have to go through that process (and expense). I can't figure out wtf is going on with this, when so many people have ported RCF numbers to Vonage. Argh!
--Adam | |
|
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Oh, to make matters even more interesting. SBC is the big LEC around here. A few years ago, MCI and Sprint came in and bought "blocks" of lines to resale. Well, I went from SBC to MCI back to SBC then to Sprint. Sprint was my local/LD carrier. So, I remember telling them when I signed up that I wanted my number blocked from "slamming". So, not sure what SR did but one minute, it was a no go, 2hrs later, it was a go. Sprint is just too easy.  | |
| | gilgamesh0
join:2003-12-01
Seattle, WA
| Re: Porting Rules Well, rvlikens, glad you posted, because I now suspect that the issue with my port to Sunrocket might have nothing to do with RCF at all, but could be a long-distance service freeze on my Qwest account, which I had put on way back years ago in the "slamming" days. I just called them to have it removed, will call SR tomorrow to have them resubmit the LNP request, and cross my fingers.
The Qwest guy I last spoke to thought the freeze would definitely cause a problem with an LNP request. Of course, numerous Qwest (no surprise there) and still more numerous SR (a bit more surprising?) people never suggested this possibility at all, and the failure responses from SR were essentially random: Attempt #1 - "cannot be ported due to being an RCF number", #2 - can't remember, #3 - "local phone company does not show you as an active account".
This process has been simply astonishing. 2 months, 3 weeks and counting. | |
| verix
join:2004-12-30
Hartsdale, NY
| Am I doing this wrong?
My number is (914)725-xxxx. I went to dandy.net, and punched in 914 for NPA and 725 for NXX. Then I clicked on 914-725 under the NPA-NXX. I don't see VoIP/CLEC companies, or any company for that matter. It is just listing of exchanges under my area code.  | |
| | Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: Porting Rules You wanted to click on "Westchester Zone 5" instead of "914-725" to find the CLECs. On the page that loads, then click on "Prefix detail". Finally, you'll see about 10 prefixes--click on "blocks" links next to prefixes 713, 721, 874, and 902. You'll see the CLECs listed within the 'block' lists. Focal has blocks in 713 and 721, as does Cablevision (Optimum voice?); 874 has Brooks Fiber, Teleport (ATT CV), and Verizon wireless; 902 has Allegiance and ATT Local.
--
{Earthlink 5M/384 cable (TWC) - Moto Surfboard 4220} - {Home network - WRT54G (HyperWRT 2.0b3 f/w)} - {ATTCV VoIP - Centillium MTA-1 (f/w 6.23L)} | |
| | | verix
join:2004-12-30
Hartsdale, NY
| Re: Porting Rules said by Fisamo :You wanted to click on "Westchester Zone 5" instead of "914-725" to find the CLECs. On the page that loads, then click on "Prefix detail". Finally, you'll see about 10 prefixes--click on "blocks" links next to prefixes 713, 721, 874, and 902. You'll see the CLECs listed within the 'block' lists. Focal has blocks in 713 and 721, as does Cablevision (Optimum voice?); 874 has Brooks Fiber, Teleport (ATT CV), and Verizon wireless; 902 has Allegiance and ATT Local. Ah, I see. Thank you. Perhaps the OP should be updated. | |
| lisalovlee33
join:2005-03-20
Toronto, ON
| I've been waiting for over 6 weeks now and gotten not a single reply from anyone saying my port is on it's way or it's been rejected, nothing. Just the initial email saying I submitted the LNP request. I called my VOIP and they can't tell me anything. Im worried because 8 days after I submitted my request, I realized I made an error in the last billing/last billing amount entry. (so I had went back in to make the changes). I'm afraid that the VOIP had already submitted the request before I made the changes, and now, it's over to the CLI/phone co, and 2 months later getting a reply that says I was rejected because my billing date/amount was wrong in the first place. I called VOIP, they were no help. Who else can I call?
I tried the NPA - NXX , NPA is my area code, where/what is NXX?
My area code is 416, in toronto. I found an NPA/NXX for Canada, but no idea what my NXX is. From the result, there's a contact or something that I can call? I read the original post about this, and not really quite sure what to do if I get my NPA/NXX result. Thanks for reading.
»puck.nether.net/npa-nxx | |
| | Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: Porting Rules NXX is the next 3 digits in the phone number, or the 'exchange'. So, if your phone number was 416-123-4567, your NXX, or exchange, would be 123.
Also, since you're in Canada, I'm not sure what the porting rules are. Obviously, the FCC doesn't have jurisdiction... 
--
{Earthlink 5M/384 cable (TWC) - Moto Surfboard 4220} - {Home network - WRT54G (HyperWRT 2.0b3 f/w)} - {ATTCV VoIP - Centillium MTA-1 (f/w 6.23L)} | |
| 
rjackson
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-02
Ringgold, GA
clubs:
Host:
SMC Networks
Automotive
VOIP Tech Chat
ViaTalk
Teleblend
| So I gather numbers assigned by a wireless carrier can be ported as well. I'm thinking about cancelling my cell phone service with Verizon Wireless, but before I do I wouldn't mind porting my mobile number to my VoicePulse account and use it as a virtual number on my main line. Anyone tried that before? | |
| | | jeffnyc
join:2004-06-09
New York, NY
| Sunrocket's Policy...
Telephone Number. You may not sell any telephone number assigned by SunRocket ("Number"). Upon termination of the Service, SunRocket may, in its sole discretion, release a Number that was ported in from a previous service provider to SunRocket by you and used in connection with your Service provisioned by SunRocket to your new service provider, if such new service provider is able to accept such Number, provided that your entire account has been terminated, that you have paid all charges due to SunRocket, and that you request the transfer upon terminating your account.
So basically, their terms of service states that it is at their discretion whether or not they will port out a number that you port in. | |
| | | |
|
Re: Porting Rules