elias
Premium,VIP
join:2000-07-24
Miami, FL
clubs: 
| reply to osme
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
said by osme  :Other than download size, though, it makes little difference. It retains your settings, bookmarks and plugins, the only thing I have to do is delete the setup file from my desktop when it's done. Works for me. Check your add/remove programs. You'll see the other versions listed still.
-- Elias
--
Crunching the Midnight Oil |
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL | reply to nixen
I though MS only started denying patches to to pirated copies of windows recently.
Either way, there is very little excuse for having Code Red 2 on your server. |
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Tech-2005
@pacbell.n
| reply to Rammer
I don't think that ranting and raving about how long it takes to download a 5MB file using a dial up connection is going to "further" many minds. I would rather listen to someone complain about how badly muffled the sound is when they use a tin can and waxed string for a telephone. |
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sabardeyn
join:2001-09-22
Naugatuck, CT
|  reply to SDSL6Gbs
DSL vs Dialup Users and Big Updates...
Seems a bit strange to me that this discussion is taking place on BROADBANDreports. (No slur intended of the site.) At this location opinions are going to be a bit skewed.
With that said, I'm currently on dialup. I find some of these huge updates annoying, but not impossible. While I understand that complex software is most likely to need a large and complex patch/update, I hardly think it's unreasonable to want programmers to write the tightest, most secure code they can conceive.
Really that is all that I think any of us Dialup users want.. Oh wait, so do the DSL users! 
--
Sabardeyn |
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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
| reply to jansm38
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
said by jansm38 :said by Tech-2005:
Why are you using dialup to download Firefox ? Why would you bother with Broadband Reports web site if you only use dialup ? Firefox downloads in about 10 seconds for me and for most people on BBR. I don't see how you can compare the monstrous 90MB Service Pack 2 downloads as a download "WIN" for Microsoft over independent programming groups for Firefox. Ultimately, I don't really understand the value in your posting those particular comments.
There are dial-up forums on BBR as well as other non broadband related formums. I think it's a very valid point that people on dialup will be very reluctant to download large updates. Yep, there is more to broadband discussisons in this awesome Web site. Security news, broadband services/issues, etc.
--
Ant @ The Ant Farm: »antfarm.ma.cx ... Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use the forum (I check almost daily)! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer. |
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SDSL6Gbs
@speakeasy.n
| reply to TKJunkMail
Internet Explorer "updates" are frequently just as large. And really, who cares about dial-up users? Software updates written for computers with massive hard drives and +1 gigabyte of memory are naturally going to be too large to be quickly downloaded by anyone using a 56k modem. The world isn't going to stop turning because some people (most likely AOL users) refuse to give up their modems, vitrolas and 78 RPM LPs. |
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BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to jansm38
I've downloaded all my updates via dial-up, even the network install of SP2 with the use of a download manager at night over a couple nights. Most people are spoiled when it comes to speed, along with needing to have everything instantly, I still remember using modems rated in BAUD, not bps aka bits per second. I don't even use my connection enough to warrant paying for a broadband connection, and unlike some people might think, it doesn't take all day to download a few MBs of data, its abound 1MB every 3-4 minutes on a good connection, and if the data is plan text you can get some really good compression with stac compression to get up to 20KB per second of pure ascii text, like when doing newsgroups, etc..
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
The biggest error is sitting in front of your keyboard. |
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slimpickinz
join:2003-11-29
Conyers, GA | reply to jansm38
NO PATIENCE
I ALSO think it's a very valid point that people on dialup will be very reluctant to patch their systems with MS Updates, very reluctant to update their AV, etc etc....
Those with no patience are usually the ones who have the most trouble anyway. |
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thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be safe
14 MB, oh no! What shall I do? 
Who gives a crap? This is broadbandreports.com, not dialupreports.com.
A dialup user could finish that file in an hour or so if he kept his connection running. There are many programs that are much bigger. Why should they have to cater to dialup users for?
--
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to reub2000
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
said by reub2000 :Obviously Microsofts updating thingys aren't good enough. Look at what I found in my apache logs: "GET /default.ida?XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX
*XX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u
*90
*90%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u
*53
*ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 404 278
(*) WARNING 1 long line(s) split
(*) WARNING 3 long line(s) split Given the number of pirated (and unpatched) copies of Windows running around out there, the above log entry says nothing about Microsoft's "updating thingy".
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL
| reply to TKJunkMail
Obviously Microsofts updating thingys aren't good enough.
Look at what I found in my apache logs:
"GET /default.ida?XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u90
*90%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u53
*ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 404 278
(*) WARNING 1 long line(s) split |
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Rammer
Premium
join:2001-03-06
clubs:
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Tech-2005
i was on dial up for years and was member of bbr also for years
maybe he was like me i had no other connection but dial up
and i looked here on these forums almost every day
for years also
i did it too keep up on things as you learn a lot here
so why should he not be here
i have never seen any thing that says --dial up --not allowed here
people who wish too learn should do what ever it takes
to further the minds |
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sherman10570
join:2000-10-15
Pleasantville, NY
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Dial-Up Updates
It should be noted that most people probably have broadband already and don't know it - Verizon Wireless. I'm not sure about the other carriers, but VZW offers free (as in used minutes / unlimited off-peak) ISDN-like service over their wireless network. Using a USB cable with my LG VX6000, I can get 10-15 kilobytes/sec download for no additional monthly charge.
14MB isn't that bad at 15k/sec. For $80/month, Verizon also offers their 300-500 kilobit/sec (40-60 kilobytes/sec) service in select major markets (ISDN-like service in the others).
While I sympathize with users stuck without broadband, most companies have made the jump into large file sizes for drivers/updates/etc:
Microsoft Windows XP SP2: 266MB
Microsoft Windows 2000 SP4: 129MB
Microsoft Office 2003 SP1: 72MB
Microsoft DirectX 9.0c: 34MB
NVIDIA 71.84 Video Driver: 18MB
ATI 5.3 Video Driver (Full package): 30MB
ATI 5.3 Video Driver (Driver only): 8MB
- Sherman
==================================================
Edit: Link to myvzw.com speed test results here @ BBR (mine tested 110/110) |
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osme
Premium
join:2001-09-07
Hamilton, ON | reply to SpitefulCrow
Re: Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be sa
14MB is the total size of all the updates thus far. The whole thing is still less than 5MB, which takes less than half an hour on dialup. This guy is literally making a big deal out of nothing. |
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jansm38
Vn800-B
Premium
join:2003-05-19
Blackwood, NJ
| reply to Tech-2005
said by Tech-2005:
Why are you using dialup to download Firefox ? Why would you bother with Broadband Reports web site if you only use dialup ? Firefox downloads in about 10 seconds for me and for most people on BBR. I don't see how you can compare the monstrous 90MB Service Pack 2 downloads as a download "WIN" for Microsoft over independent programming groups for Firefox. Ultimately, I don't really understand the value in your posting those particular comments.
There are dial-up forums on BBR as well as other non broadband related formums. I think it's a very valid point that people on dialup will be very reluctant to download large updates. |
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SpitefulCrow
Insert Witty Tag Here
Premium
join:2003-06-04
Berkeley, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail
That Ivan guy was trolling the weblog, didn't you read the rest of the comments? He wanted a free lunch in terms of a new feature/improvement now, spewed "advice" on the subject, and then said he didn't want to help add this feature to the project. Useless comments.
A binary patch system is in the works for release sometime around Firefox 1.5, if what the replies to Mr. Icin said were correct. Until then, you have broadband, 14MB takes less than 30 seconds to download over a decent cable connection, so you can put up with it until then. Just think of the fact that since I use Gentoo Linux, I have to download a 30-something MB source code package and compile it to install these minor updates. |
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Tech-2005
@pacbell.n
thumbs down from:
bokamba
| reply to TKJunkMail
Why are you using dialup to download Firefox ? Why would you bother with Broadband Reports web site if you only use dialup ? Firefox downloads in about 10 seconds for me and for most people on BBR. I don't see how you can compare the monstrous 90MB Service Pack 2 downloads as a download "WIN" for Microsoft over independent programming groups for Firefox. Ultimately, I don't really understand the value in your posting those particular comments. |
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Dryvlyne
Far Beyond Driven
Premium
join:2004-08-30
Newark, OH
| reply to TKJunkMail
Hmm, I didn't have to do a full re-install when I update from 1.0.1 to 1.0.2. I think they just say to do that as a precaution. I did have to re-download the entire setup installer, although that was no big deal cause I'm on DSL  |
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osme
Premium
join:2001-09-07
Hamilton, ON | reply to TKJunkMail
Other than download size, though, it makes little difference. It retains your settings, bookmarks and plugins, the only thing I have to do is delete the setup file from my desktop when it's done. Works for me. |
|
TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit |  Full re-install has to end if Firefox to be safe
When you go to the link mentioned in the story, I found an interesting comment about a Firefox flaw that needs fixing. And that is that a full re-install of the product is needed after every little fix comes out for the product. What Firefox needs is a system that can implement minor releases with a system that can replace portions of the code.
»weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/arch···880.html
I can't remember any application with worse update system than Firefox. With 14 MB in less than two months you really can't expect your dial-up users to be up to date.
Good occasion is that it is unlikely that there won't be spyware for Firefox for some time, so you can do something about that. But if you don't take this case urgently (read it 1.1) you're risking safeness of your users.
Oh, not to forget that update system is bad not just from the point of its bulkniess, but also from the point of its inteface.
It is redicilous that MS is taking a strong win in something that should be your area.
Posted by: Ivan Icin on April 2, 2005 11:53 AM
I fully agree.
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