operad
Premium
join:2004-11-16
Baker City, OR
3 edits | Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connection.
I'm going to be supplying the 3 cities below with Wireless Internet, but I'm a little stumped on exactly how many antenna's and AP's I will need on each site. The Hub Site is installed at the Medical Springs Location and needs to supply the other two cities with internet. If it was just a Point to Point it would be a lot easier. I dont need specific on equipment brands, just details or idea's on setup. I know I'm going to need a high ration of signal to noise for this to work well. Would it be easier to go from Medical Springs to Haines with a PtP and then another PtP from Medical Springs to North Powder? Im going to run 2 90 degree sectors(2.4 spectrum) at each site including the Hub site, plus the direction antenna(5.7 spectrum for the PtP.)
I would also like to implement FHSS(Raylink) for the AP's supplying the bandwidth if possible. Below is some info:
Mediacal Springs Elevation 3440 feet
Medical Springs- Antenna Elevation 3,800
Haines Elevation = 3,333 zipcode 97833
Haines Antenna Elevation 3,790
North Powder Elevation 3,279 97867
North Powder Antenna Site 3,837
Link to
Medical Springs to Haines = 10 miles
Haines to North Powder = 11 miles |
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omahajim
join:2002-09-06
Omaha, NE | Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connect
All I can say is... take advantage of the mountains to your west. Instant "towers". I could be wrong. |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to operad
Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connection.
You realize the FHSS systems won't do more than 1.8 Mbps or so right?
When you say you are "supplying the cities with wireless internet" does that mean you intend to support multiple customers or you are just supplying certain buildings.
To start with I would run seperate PtP connections to each of the other cities. Do this with a professional grade system at a minimum. Also do you understand that this technology requires line of sight between the radios?
Personally I would not use FHSS as it is a little bit restrictive in terms of bandwidth as well as the fact that they aren't developing any new FHSS systems so you're kinda coupling yourself with a stagnant technology.
In order to make decisions on a distribution system we need to know what kind of bandwidth per customer you intend to offer, what kind of budget do you have for the CPE (ie how much can each one cost realistically not perfect world), how about the presence of trees (Oregon has a few of them the last time I checked), the possibility for interference etc.
Trying to do 3 cities at once is a wee bit ambitious for someone asking the kind of questions you are, no offense. |
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operad
Premium
join:2004-11-16
Baker City, OR
| reply to omahajim
Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connect
The mountains to the West that I circled in Yellow are between 6,000 to 8,000 ft. Very thick timber(Still about 2 feet of snow up there) in those area's and I'm not ready to deploy something of that nature. The black dot is where I have access to a house on the hill. |
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operad
Premium
join:2004-11-16
Baker City, OR
4 edits | reply to cmaenginsb
Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connection.
I understand LOS and also the fresnal zone. I've read tons of information and also have read Jack Ungers book a couple of times(attending seminar soon). The reason I ask these questions is because I haven't deployed anything this big. Why not start with the 3 cities? If I'm going to do it then why not start big, I honestly don't see a problem with this(Maybe I'm missing something). Medical Springs(50% broadband) is 9,800 population, North Powder(NO Broadband) 400 and Haines(No Broadband) about 400.
I intend on supporting business's and residential users for fixed broadband at the below speeds:
256/128
512/256
768/256
I already have my T1 ordered. Thinking of getting a bonded T-1 if it calls for it.
For CPE's I was looking at tranzeo TR-CPE200-19 or TR-CPE80-15. I want to keep it under $250.00.
From each of my PtP I can see the other point clear LOS, the FRESNAL zone is good(60% Clear would be 28.6 ft/ Medical Springs to Haines.5 miles x 5 miles, correct me if I'm wrong)
I havent seen any 400-500ft Tree's in town lately. Did you not look at the Elevation? |
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DejanCDN
join:2004-11-17
Kuwait
| Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connect
We find Tranzeo CPEs a bit pricey. Instead, we use HGA-2400 Pro 31s and Pro 35s ($119/$59). Also, I didn't notice any mention of traffic shaping on Tranzeo web site. HGA's allow you to set Uplink/Downlink speed right in the CPE, conserving your bandwidth at the source. |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| reply to cmaenginsb
said by cmaenginsb  :You realize the FHSS systems won't do more than 1.8 Mbps or so right? This statement is coreect and I would also like to add something. I am a WISP that uses Raylink and Alvarion FHSS radios. We are actually going to have to redeploy some newer and faster gear in some areas, as I have some customers that need more bandwidth than the FHSS radios can supply.
said by cmaenginsb :Personally I would not use FHSS as it is a little bit restrictive in terms of bandwidth as well as the fact that they aren't developing any new FHSS systems so you're kinda coupling yourself with a stagnant technology. While I wouldn't call FHSS "stagnant"(Call Brad Larson @ Alvarion and tell him that, I dare You!:D, LOL!), I would say that every type of technology has it's place. If all You plan on doing is suppling the speeds mentioned above?, You will have a hassle free, interference free network. On the other side of the coin, If You feel that faster speeds will be needed some day, You need to take a long hard look at what You are about to do so that You are prepared for the future.;)
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wolfcreek
join:2003-12-02
Pagosa Springs, CO
| reply to operad
Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connection.
If you can get a tower on one of those mountains you will be far better off. We have a tower overlooking a similar geography. The tower is 150 ft but it is also on a ridge 1000 ft highter than the town. The LOS and NLOS units work better than most people achieve elsewhere due to this tower height. It may not be convenient but a single tower this high up may serve almost all of your customers if placed right. |
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operad
Premium
join:2004-11-16
Baker City, OR | reply to DejanCDN
Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connect
$119 for a CPE were I can setup the up and down at that CPE would be nice. I prefer to set it at the CPE. Do you have a website? |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| reply to operad
Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connection.
said by operad :The Hub Site is installed at the Medical Springs Location and needs to supply the other two cities with internet. Your T-1 is being installed in Medical Springs?
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
1 edit | reply to operad
These are the link routes that I have evaluated...
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to operad
Medical Springs Local Topography
Medical Springs and the surrounding area...
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to operad
Re: Need Some help On Point to Multi Point Connection.
Big Hill rocks! A jeep trail right to the top of the hill...! and just outside of the National Forest!
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operad
Premium
join:2004-11-16
Baker City, OR
| Thanks for the Images John. :0)
The actual City is Baker City, but it comes up as Medical Springs in Keyhole, so thats why I used Medical Springs.
Riverdale Hill already has a Tower and Power on it that I'm going to rent. The hill is perfect. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by operad :The actual City is Baker City, but it comes up as Medical Springs in Keyhole, so thats why I used Medical Springs. Riverdale Hill already has a Tower and Power on it that I'm going to rent. The hill is perfect. So where in Baker City will your T-1 terminate?
And what is the rent for the tower space?
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operad
Premium
join:2004-11-16
Baker City, OR
| 44 46'09.11" N 117 48' 53.09" Is Where the PtP link will be, at a house on the hill.
The actual T-1 is going to be installed at my house
2545 8th Street
Baker City, Or
97814
with a PtP to the above site. I also have a house right below the hill(Parents rental house) that I might be able to use also. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Won't work...if this is your primary link path to distribution. I don't think that if you even were on 100" towers you could clear this obstruction...knife-edge diffraction will get you.
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operad
Premium
join:2004-11-16
Baker City, OR
| From my house to St. Elizebeth Towers to the Hill should work.
Address of St. Elizebeth Towers is 2365 4th Street.
Its about 9 Stories High. Just called them Today to see about Roof Space, but got their machine.
I also spoted two towers on the smaller hills on the highest point to the West. Going to try and find who owns these. This would be the best Idea, because I could then use this as my PtP link to the other two cities. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by operad :I also spoted two towers on the smaller hills on the highest point to the West. Going to try and find who owns these. This would be the best Idea, because I could then use this as my PtP link to the other two cities. Coordinates?
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to operad
said by operad :From my house to St. Elizebeth Towers to the Hill should work. Same problem...
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