nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| reply to lyls
Re: Wow, what a piece of trash!
said by lyls:
well that guy is always defending the companies for some obscure reason..... and i also agree that if they advertise unlimited then they better mean it and if they do say "switch to business or be disconnected" then they should have proof that the account in question is being used for business use
Good luck doing that without violating wiretap laws...
Even if I call nothing but businesses from my line, I could simply be an activist calling to complain at all those companies.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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phunkysmell
@comcast.net
| reply to Dezbend
There is an upper limit for VoIP in a month.
1440 minutes/day * 30 days = 43200 minutes
So in this case unlimited is not actually infinite.
I think when you have a family with teenagers and you're paying for a single residential VoIP line, you're going to use way more than 1000 minutes/month for NON-BUSINESS use. International? Maybe you have exchange students or distant family. Usually you pay extra 1-50 cents/minute for international calls anyway (I have Vonage and it does cost extra). |
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mph300
Two Thirds The Way There
join:2000-11-09
| reply to Dezbend
said by Dezbend:
That company should have the right to enforce the ToS.
Agreed, but this discussion is not about whether or not company "X" can or cannot enforce their TOS. It is about a TOS that has conflicting terms in regards to what is advertised or conveyed to the consumer.
said by Dezbend:
I was merely trying to define the limits of "unlimited" in context. If consumers expect unlimited to mean equal to the amount of minutes in a month then so be it.
I do believe that consumers(you and I included) expects the unlimited amount of minutes within any given time period to be the actual number of minutes in the given period! |
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mph300
Two Thirds The Way There
join:2000-11-09
| reply to rec9140
said by rec9140:
To say I don't get it or understand all this yakking is to put it midly.
NO I do not have a wife/gf/so, or rugrats of any age or the need of either.
So some one enlighten me on what makes these teens and wives such gabbers.
Well, I don't REALLY think any man fully understands the female being!  |
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rec9140
Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL
|  reply to mph300
said by mph300  :
Uhhhh, try on a wife and 2 teen girls and 19 hours a month is a drop in the bucket! I KNOW the hourly usage on my pots line is at least 28 hours a WEEK!!
Ok, I give up. I see this posted on every one of these threads that comes along.
High VOIP use and then the "usual culprits rounded up" to include teens, wives, multiple teens etc..
Some one please explain to me who in the planet these people are talking to?!? ? 
To say I don't get it or understand all this yakking is to put it midly.
NO I do not have a wife/gf/so, or rugrats of any age or the need of either.
So some one enlighten me on what makes these teens and wives such gabbers.
I just don't get it 28 HOURS would last me eons. The next ice age would probably come along before I yak that much. I use those cans of compressed air to dust that thing in the corner off every now and then, oh yeah thats a phone.
Note: I 1000% support the term unlimited to mean NO LIMITS. So thats not my point. |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :Mine is advertised and sold as a range of bitrates, and I am happily sitting at the very top of that range (6016/608), and the company will let you drop to the next lower plan if they can't hit the minimum they advertise. That is still a volume you were sold not a speed; does your ISP guarantee latency? That would be a speed measurement. The point is the industry changed the definition of the word speed in this context and we all went along with it - even you. We have to recognize industry terms.
said by RadioDoc :Then the box manufacturer better not advertise it as having "unlimited capacity". Right you are, but what if I were a apple sales man with a box of apples saying "take unlimited apples for a low low price of..." There would be implied limits.
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If it is not recorded, it simply does not exist. |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| reply to RadioDoc
Let me take one more try at trying to explain my point of view:
First of all I think annex1982 was grievously misled, and I am in no way trying to defend RocketVoIP's case.
However, take the general case of a company that sells unlimited residential service in which the ToS state the service is not to be used for business functions.
That company should have the right to enforce the ToS.
One reasonable way to differentiate residential from business service might be to compare the amount and length of calls made by the average residential customer and those of an average business customer.
If the usage of a residential customer is looking like the statistical model of an average business customer, a reasonable conclusion would be that the service is being used for business purposes and therefore is in violation of the ToS.
The word unlimited is clearly a marketing ploy as we have recognized at least some natural limitations (even though in an earlier post I did mention you could actually have usage greater than the amount of minutes in a month). It is reasonable then to try to define what is meant by the word... I was merely trying to define the limits of "unlimited" in context. If consumers expect unlimited to mean equal to the amount of minutes in a month then so be it. We would have then found the true definition in context. I was making no suggestions as to what reasonable limits should be, only that they would have to exist.
btw, RadioDoc, your post was well said.
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If it is not recorded, it simply does not exist. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | reply to Dezbend
said by Dezbend :When you bought high speed internet; what speed did you get? The industry sells speeds like 512k/sec or 1.5Meg/sec 3.0Meg/sec does it bother you that those advertised "speeds" are a measurement of volume not velocity? Mine is advertised and sold as a range of bitrates, and I am happily sitting at the very top of that range (6016/608), and the company will let you drop to the next lower plan if they can't hit the minimum they advertise.said by Dezbend :There exist industry terms. Maybe there aught not to be, or maybe Webster needs to put more entries under these words. Whatever the case we deal with an evolving language were the meaning of words must be considered in context. The marketing industry can use whatever terms they wish to talk to each other, but when they are talking to the buying public they'd better be using standard definitions. Advertisers certainly should not be [re-] defining words like "unlimited" in any case.said by Dezbend :A box can not contain infinitely many apples, nor can a month contain infinitely many minutes. It would be foolish to believe otherwise. Then the box manufacturer better not advertise it as having "unlimited capacity".
You keep missing the point. Unlimited in this context means no limits are imposed by the company. It does not mean there are no limits imposed by virtue of the number of total minutes in a month. There are natural limits imposed by ma nature and her henchmen, and there are artificial limits imposed by shyster company executives. The latter are illegal when your advertising states otherwise. |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| reply to mph300
When you bought high speed internet; what speed did you get? The industry sells speeds like 512k/sec or 1.5Meg/sec 3.0Meg/sec does it bother you that those advertised "speeds" are a measurement of volume not velocity?
There exist industry terms. Maybe there aught not to be, or maybe Webster needs to put more entries under these words. Whatever the case we deal with an evolving language were the meaning of words must be considered in context.
A box can not contain infinitely many apples, nor can a month contain infinitely many minutes. It would be foolish to believe otherwise.
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If it is not recorded, it simply does not exist. |
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mph300
Two Thirds The Way There
join:2000-11-09
| reply to Dezbend
said by Dezbend:
Quoting this definition makes no sense. A company can not sell an infinite of usage in a finite amount of time. The definition is meaningless in context. We need to discover what the industry considers to be unlimited to understand the claim. I don't think that unlimited is yet an industry term for VoIP - this and cases like it will determine what is meant by unlimited in this context.
It makes perfect sense. If the word or words they are using don't fit the usage they describe, then it becomes false advertising. We as consumers don't need a grammar lesson(I think it's safe to say that most people understand what unlimited means). The industry needs to learn what a word actually means before trying to entice people with certain words and then cover themselves with a security blanket terms of service that is rediculous! If you purchased a gym membership that was "unlimited usage" and then found out that you could only use the gym for 1 hour a week, would that be ok too? I don't think so! The same goes for an unlimited voip phone service that only provides you with LIMITED phone service! |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
| reply to mph300
said by mph300 :And by the way, the definition of UNLIMITEDun·lim·it·ed ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-lm-td) adj. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence. Quoting this definition makes no sense. A company can not sell an infinite of usage in a finite amount of time. The definition is meaningless in context. We need to discover what the industry considers to be unlimited to understand the claim. I don't think that unlimited is yet an industry term for VoIP - this and cases like it will determine what is meant by unlimited in this context.
Related industries (long distance and cellular) sell unlimited residential calling plans; however these plans do in fact have restrictions that are acceptable.
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If it is not recorded, it simply does not exist. |
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mph300
Two Thirds The Way There
join:2000-11-09
| reply to JoshNJ
said by JoshNJ:
they signed up for RESIDENTIAL unlimited use, the situation here seems to be that the company believes that it is unlikely 19 hours on the phone per month is not being used for a business
Uhhhh, try on a wife and 2 teen girls and 19 hours a month is a drop in the bucket! I KNOW the hourly usage on my pots line is at least 28 hours a WEEK!!
And by the way, the definition of UNLIMITED
un·lim·it·ed ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-lm-td)
adj.
Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence. |
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lyls
@tele.dk
| reply to RadioDoc
well that guy is always defending the companies for some obscure reason..... and i also agree that if they advertise unlimited then they better mean it and if they do say "switch to business or be disconnected" then they should have proof that the account in question is being used for business use |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
1 edit | reply to JoshNJ
said by JoshNJ :said by DaveNJ :But didnt they sign up for unlimited use they signed up for RESIDENTIAL unlimited use, the situation here seems to be that the company believes that it is unlikely 19 hours on the phone per month is not being used for a business, I base this on the fact that the company sent the guy an email that implies they do not believe he is not using it for business purposes (and he even says in the thread that he NEEDS that many minutes per month) 19 hrs is not excessive, i used more on sprint unlimited, AND. to put things into perpective i have a 1000 mins on my cellphone. 16 hrs, so you mean to tell me that this silly voip company cant do better then a cellphone ? BTW Josh your constant defense of Big corp america is obvious, it seems you defend without thinking it through. If something says unlimited for X $ then the customer deserves unlimited. Not unlike a shirt at a store that label 5$ and you get to the register and they says it 10$. illegal on the sellers part. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to JoshNJ
If they advertise "unlimited", I don't care if he's calling Mars. Catch a clue. |
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JoshNJ
Premium
join:2001-12-25
Freehold, NJ
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :19 hours a month = ~40 minutes a day. Hardly "business use". You are missing something else very important in the equation, the op is making international calls, 19 hours overseas for residential use is even more excessive than calling down the street.
said by RadioDoc :You sound like a stockholder. I never even heard of this voip company until I read the article, thank you very much.
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I support the RIAA |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to JoshNJ
Bullshit.
19 hours a month = ~40 minutes a day. Hardly "business use".
Quit defending these scumbags. You sound like a stockholder. |
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JoshNJ
Premium
join:2001-12-25
Freehold, NJ
| reply to DaveNJ
said by DaveNJ :But didnt they sign up for unlimited use they signed up for RESIDENTIAL unlimited use, the situation here seems to be that the company believes that it is unlikely 19 hours on the phone per month is not being used for a business, I base this on the fact that the company sent the guy an email that implies they do not believe he is not using it for business purposes (and he even says in the thread that he NEEDS that many minutes per month)
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I support the RIAA |
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