how-to block ads
|
Murray3
join:2001-03-06
Texas
| reply to Sarah
Re: A What...?
said by Sarah  :said by Murray3 :said by Asmodeus :Listen, the ability to access the internet regardless of method is a LUXURY!!! period... Yup. I don't see how it could possibly be deemed a Utility. I could survive without Broadband... but would not fair so good without water, electricity, etc. How exactly does electricity keep you alive? Well, I wasn't meaning to infer that I couldn't live without electricity. I was meaning to infer that it would be easy to go without broadband, but would not be so easy without electricity (would certainly make my life more uncomfortable without electricity but I wouldn't notice a difference without broadband).
And yes, others who have mentioned that electricity and phones used to be a luxury (incidentally, I still think a phone is a luxury item), are correct when they said that and that now those things are generally deemed 'utilities'.
But I thought we were discussing now and not 15 years from now. I say this without the intention of splitting hairs. When fiber does fuel my home and add many more benefits than it does right now, then I would probably change my opinion. All the while broadband's primary residential use is to allow Web, VoIP and TV services, I stick to my guns by thinking of it as a luxury rather than a necessary utility.
I guess I'm thinking of it in terms of necessity.
There's probably no right or wrong with this, as there seems to be quite a difference of opinion between several of us. Ah well, makes for lively discussion.  | |
Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| reply to Captain Obvious
Obviously I'm not stating my point very well.
The critical, "can't live without them," status of these utilities did not exist at some point in the not so distant past. They were just as novel as broadband is today. Over time they have developed into critical services. Broadband access has as much potential to improve the quality of life, for individuals as well as whole communities, as any other public utility. To think otherwise is just short-sighted. | |
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Captain Obvious
said by Captain Obvious:
Per your example of people dropping their POTS lines for VoIP - wouldn't that begin to make broadband a utility? I didn't mention VoIP anywhere in my post. I was referring to people ditching POTS lines in favor of wireless phones.
In addition, as I mentioned earlier, I believe it's specious reasoning to consider a POTS line a utility for the reasons mentioned, I simply accept that it's an argument made to classify such service as necessary. | |
Captain Obvious
| reply to FTCXtreme
Dude, the knowledge of how to survive just doesn't get passed on to city dwellers. That is why these services are so critical. Without power, a whole host of systems go down in a large city. People are at much greater risk, especially in the summer or winter. The same goes for water and gas.
Essentially, without these services, cities would fall apart just like they did in the middle ages - of disease and death. The elderly and the very young would die off first, but eventually the disease would become so rampant that people would be forced to flee. It might not be so bad in the spring or autumn, but eventually the heat and cold would set in, and it would all start to fall apart.
So, perhaps in your (most likely) rural area, you may be able to do without - but for most people, it isn't much of an option.
That said, I am a hiker, so I have a water purification system, hiking stove, and the knowledge of how to get on quite nicely with minimal supplies. However, I would say I am a fairly rare type around here. | |
Captain Obvious
| reply to Talis
I believe the point is that for most of the US, these services are no longer optional, and thus, a hard requirement.
Yes, strictly speaking you are correct - you can live in the woods with little more than a sharp stick and some animal skins, but the vast majority of Americans couldn't - they would just die if stuck in the woods without.
So, whether you like it or not, gas, electric, coal or fuel oil in parts, water, and sewer are critical services, without which a lot of people would die. That makes them utilities. | |
Captain Obvious
|  reply to N3OGH
Per your example of people dropping their POTS lines for VoIP - wouldn't that begin to make broadband a utility? After all, if you depend wholly on your VoIP phone for connectivity, then you could potentially die if the connection goes down and you have a life-threatening emergency.
Personally, I don't feel that POTS *OR* broadband should be considered utilities in the same way that gas, electric and water are. The latter provide requirements for living (i.e., the ability to stay warm in the winter and to cook food) The former are simply means to communicate more easily.
However, following the reasoning of POTS being a useful means of getting help in an emergency, it really isn't that far of a leap to make broadband a utility as well. | |
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to LegoPower77
said by LegoPower77 :Yeah, and that's why America has become the wealthiest, most productive country in the world. Yup, that's right.
We have the cheapest, most plentiful supply of food in the world, and we have massive government subsidies.
We can move people and goods quickly and efficiently over and extensive government-built system of superhighways.
Everyone has access to electricity, thanks to the Rural Electrification Project and the TVA.
We lead in scientific and technological breakthroughs, thanks in part to large government funding in the NSF.
We used to do these things. They were considered necessary for a wealthy, productive, country. Now people like you label them as "communist". I guess you want the whole country to be like, say, Mississippi. With attitudes like that, places like China and India are going to eat us for lunch in 50 years or so. At least I won't be around to see it. | |
Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Huntsville, AL
| reply to N3OGH
Before we had cable tv, we used our DSL to stream weather info and storm warnings. Of course, before we had DSL we used dial up for that, but that was back in 99 before most weather sites became so bloated with excess crap. Anyway, the point is that without that, we would never have known there was a hurricane coming untill it hit.
--
"There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something they made up to scare kids, like the Boogeyman or Michael Jackson." - Bart Simpson | |
FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA
| reply to Asmodeus
Electricity is not needed for life, You can live without electricity, but it was funny watchign all them New Yorkers walk down the street during the blackout, Then the news keeps on sayign it was SO HORRIBLE, OH NO I CAN'T TURN ON A LIGHT! I can see in instance of a hospital its bad, but for regular life? Seriously. As for running water, what do you mean by running water? A town selling you water? Out here we do not have town provided water and have WELLS, I can see town provided water is necesary for anypalce over 5,000 population.As for phone, I is not essential but its damn good to have, and is not a luxery. As for Internet, Internet is not a luxery, and not a necessarily needed item, but it is necessary for many things. As for apliances on this internet, WHY? Why would you need your washer on the internet? Your stove? Dryer, Dish Washer? I do not see the need to connect to the internet to wash you cloths, dish, cook some eggs, and have a cup of coffee. To me it just doesn't seem practical, say soemone hacks into your stove, and turns the gas on, you wake up go to cook soem eggs BAM! your house blows up. Of course you know this will happen, everythign will becoem internet oriented, and broadband will be necessary, for everyday life. IT WILL HAPPEN IT JUST A MATTER OF TIME! | |
lyls
@tele.dk
| reply to N3OGH
drowning in sewage ? btw im sure theres people who have lived without a telephone for a very long time and i think the internet already has become quite popular and useful and it'll only become more essential to our lives..... of course not in a "get it or die" kind of way | |
jesseb_66
join:2002-12-06
Tucson, AZ
| reply to IamZed
said by IamZed :Exactly. Electricity was a luxury once. A phone was a luxury once. Running water was a luxury once. People who think fiber is a luxury can’t see past tomorrow, and shouldn't’t be allowed to plan it. I like that. | |
Shadow01
Premium
join:2003-10-24
Wasteland
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to FTCXtreme
said by FTCXtreme :The problem is this, Im am stuck on dial up, and want to get on broadband. Seeing how Verizon has recently told me I coudl get DSL, and I jsut ordered, that may change but tis highly unlikely, as verizon has todl me countless times before, and they lie. There is no cable, in my town, big deal no cable, Cable TV sucks anyway(porn videos have blurss on Cinamax). Is cable a necessity no! Is broaband a necesity, NO! Should I have the right to get affordable(under $50 a month), YES. Broadband is and is not a utility at the same time, I serves the people, but is not essential. Do I need to paly Xbox Live, Socom II, Counter Strike or any other PC games, NO! Do I want to download things fast, and play on Xbox Live YOU BET YOUR ASS I DO! Do I think the US BB penetration ratign @ 16th is BS, yes, I counts BB users, not who can get it and who can't. Soem peopel chose not to get broadband, cause they dont need it or afford it. I do feel, I have the right to get a 768k DSL package, c'mon people, Is it antiruralistic(my new word) yes! This is America, and This is 2005 and im on 1980s technology, knock off the crap and get em to deploy. For the sake of our economoy and our childrens P2P habits. IT ISN'T FAIR, and I a rural customer deserves the same service as some Urban customer. And this great country that you live in allows you to start that service in your area if no one else will. Just be your own BB provider and quite whining. You could move if BB is that important, we do have to make choices in life sometimes. It's not always about you.... Luxury until the government steps in and creates a universal service of BB and subsidizes deployment to the rural areas. This 'great' move will then create the need for a 'provider of last resort' and then you have the makings of a monopoly and guaranteed returns on investment. | |
FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA
| reply to Asmodeus
The problem is this, Im am stuck on dial up, and want to get on broadband. Seeing how Verizon has recently told me I coudl get DSL, and I jsut ordered, that may change but tis highly unlikely, as verizon has todl me countless times before, and they lie. There is no cable, in my town, big deal no cable, Cable TV sucks anyway(porn videos have blurss on Cinamax). Is cable a necessity no! Is broaband a necesity, NO! Should I have the right to get affordable(under $50 a month), YES. Broadband is and is not a utility at the same time, I serves the people, but is not essential. Do I need to paly Xbox Live, Socom II, Counter Strike or any other PC games, NO! Do I want to download things fast, and play on Xbox Live YOU BET YOUR ASS I DO! Do I think the US BB penetration ratign @ 16th is BS, yes, I counts BB users, not who can get it and who can't. Soem peopel chose not to get broadband, cause they dont need it or afford it. I do feel, I have the right to get a 768k DSL package, c'mon people, Is it antiruralistic(my new word) yes! This is America, and This is 2005 and im on 1980s technology, knock off the crap and get em to deploy. For the sake of our economoy and our childrens P2P habits. IT ISN'T FAIR, and I a rural customer deserves the same service as some Urban customer. | |
john262
join:2003-09-26
Elko, NV | reply to Murray3
Agreed. I had dialup for several years before getting DSL and at the time I got along with it just fine. It's not that I would want to go back to it now, but it definitely is just a luxury. | |
Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| reply to N3OGH
This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand... but here you go, enjoy reading: »www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/···a73.html
--
The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! | |
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | reply to Sarah
You might get that heater to fire off, but how are you going to move the heat through your house?
Hot air needs an electric blower, baseboard heat needs a circulation pump, both are run by electricity.... | |
Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
| reply to IamZed
said by IamZed :Exactly. Electricity was a luxury once. A phone was a luxury once. Running water was a luxury once. People who think fiber is a luxury can’t see past tomorrow, and shouldn’t be allowed to plan it. Nicely said.
--
Semper Fidelis | |
LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| reply to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT :said by Asmodeus :In most countries, incentives and targeted private/public partnerships seem to work pretty well. But here the "gov't screws everything up" crowd won't let that happen. Yeah, and that's why America has become the wealthiest, most productive country in the world. The "private/public" (read: public, since the distinction between socialist and communist is worthless) partnership in health care really has worked well in Canada, hasn't it, where you have to wait up to nine months to get a cat scan. We'll see how China does trying to take over, but keep in mind, with their system, the people have to oppressed to keep it going. --
"You cannot separate fools from their foolishness, even though you grind them like grain with mortar and pestle" (Proverbs 27:22). | |
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| reply to Network Guy
But isn't that exactly what happened with the aforementioned items: running water, electricity, phone service.
Metro areas were first served, and rurals second. That alone does not discount something being deemed a utility.
I am of the opinion that broadband is not yet at the level of utility, but it is well on it's way to becoming so. Evidenced partially by the fact that established "utility companies" such as TELCOs are major providers of service. Eventually the connectivity will just be one line, and THAT single connection will be a utility.
K.
--
TheGlobalMind.com
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss - Rent | |
Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| reply to icp1
said by icp1 :You don't think electricity, clean water, and sewage are essential to life? Don't put words in my mouth. CLEAN water is not what I commented on, but water systems. There is a difference.
But to answer your question, none of these systems is essential to sustaining life. The fact that cities provide these systems is what allows them to grow to the enormous sizes that they do. Once a city has grown to that size, which could only have been possible with these utility systems in place, then of course shutting them down would drastically impact the people living there. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my point, however. | |
|
