gammaone
join:2004-05-14
Clovis, CA
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? I bought a 36' telescopic pole from radio shack and a tripod. Works well enough but some of my smaller techs have a real hard time getting the pole (fully extended) and a radio TR-CPE200-19 vertical by themselves.
The pole was about $30 and the tripod was about $15.
Quick and fairly easy as long as there isn't a wind. I saw a tripod and pole (I think it was a small crankup) bolted into a back of a truck for even easier and faster setups. | |
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 Airplane777
join:2004-06-20 | Re: WISP site survey poles ? Hi gammaone and polk5:
That Radio Shack pole sounds pretty good.
I might stop by Radio Shack today and check it out.
Thanks | |
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 | nwn
Premium
join:2004-03-05
Centerville, IN | Re: WISP site survey poles ? Lowes carries a Channel Master 30 telescope. Includes rings for guy wires if you need them.
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Scott | |
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| | davidpaj
join:2002-04-22
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? said by nwn  :Lowes carries a Channel Master 30 telescope. Includes rings for guy wires if you need them. I use this one, works nicely | |
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| | | Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
1 edit | Re: WISP site survey poles ? Hi davidpaj and nwm:
I assume you both use it for temporary mounting of WISP antennas for site surveys?
How do you temporarily mount it?
I have seen that some people use mounts, hooked to a trailer hitch, or some kind of contraption where the car rolls onto some kind of plate that the pole is mounted to.
I guess if the mount is pretty secure, maybe one guy can handle that 30 foot pole?
I have a van with a heavy duty trailer hitch on it and a roof rack. I'm trying to figure how to set up some kind of temporary mount using that to hold the mast you spoke of.
I saw this mast at Lowe's this afternoon, It seems you have to be on a tall ladder to extend the mast.
Thanks | |
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| | | | jdmarti1
Jack
join:2004-06-15
Oilton, OK
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? The downside to having something with your car or trailer is quite often the install is going to be on the back side of the house. Most homeowners aren't real interested in letting you drive around their yard. I would imagine you really need to do the survey close (within a few feet) of where the install will be. As for the Lowe's mast - buy the tripod with it - then you can walk it up from an extended position. I would like to find something like this in aluminum so it wouldn't weigh quite so much. Ultimate Support makes lighting stands out of aircraft aluminum, but they only go to 11 feet. I am trying to figure out how I can modify one of these. My pocketbook won't allow one of those cool $2500 rigs. 
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»magicwisp.com | |
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| | | | | Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
4 edits | Re: WISP site survey poles ? Hi jdmarti1:
Come to think of it, you are right about the van being driven onto their yard.
I didn't see a tripod at Lowe's today. That must be some kind of monster tripod to hold this heavy 30 foot pole.
On the other hand, maybe a pole on my van would let me go to various places in the neighborhood, just to get an idea how far the signal will go. But knowing that ultimately I will have to go on a customers roof to be sure the signal gets there also.
Do most people just put the CPE and its built in antenna on the pole, and probably do a continuous ping? Also hopefully the CPE device will have some kind of signal strength indication. Are they the best two indicators of a WISP site survey.
Or, I could mount just an antenna by itself on top of the pole and use real low loss coax (like LMR 400 or larger) to go to the ground where my laptop and Orinoro Gold card are located? That seems the most practical way to do the site survey. I would just have to take into consideration the loss of the coax. That shouldn't be too difficult to do, knowing the loss per hundred feet or per foot.
Gee, if I did it that way, I could use my Orinoco Gold card to easily find the best positioning of the antenna...knowing that I will ultimately have to use a CPE with its antenna, in that same exact position. Hopefully the CPE with its built in antenna, can receive as well (or better) then my Orinoco Gold card on the long coax. The antenna I would use in the CPE and the antenna by itself on the pole, would naturally be matched up as best as best as possible (forward gain, front to back ratio, V & H beam width, etc.)
And my Orinoco Gold card will give me Signal strength, signal to noise ratio, packets sent and lost, etc (as long as my AP has the right chip set).
Again, hopefully the CPE device would have a better transmitter and receiver in it then my Orinoco Gold card. It's too bad that the CPEs can't give as much information as the Client Software that is on the Gold card.
I assume that in most cases a WISP CPE will not give Signal to Noise and Signal strength and packets sent and lost, like I get when I do hotel WiFi site surveys with an Orinoco Gold card could.
I imagine a CPE with only an Ethernet connection to the laptop will not be able to give that kind of information...probably just relative signal strength and maybe continuous pings to at least see if packets are lost or not.
So hopefully I will be able to get some kind of meaningful information of how to point the CPE for best signal reception, since I probably won't have good site survey software to use with it. Seems continuous pings and relative signal strength might be the best I can hope for when doing a site survey with a WISP CPE?
Thanks | |
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| | | | | | nwn
Premium
join:2004-03-05
Centerville, IN
| Re: WISP site survey poles ?
Truck Mount1 | 
Truck Mount2 |
I use a sB Outdoor and a 19dB grid for all sight surveys. I then calculate what antenna and radio to use.
My county has GIS maps available, so I get the latitude and longitude of the TV tower, or roof peak. I then use the tools at »gbppr.dyndns.org:8080/path.main.cgi to determine aximuth, up/down tilt, distance, etc. This one is nice, it even allows one to put in trees and buildings. I get that from the GIS map.
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Scott | |
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| | | | | | | Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
2 edits | Re: WISP site survey poles ? Hi Scott:
Thanks for the pictures. Thats a neat idea...just using wood to go into your trailer hitch.
I see you just clamp the pole a little further up to the bar on your truck.
How high can you go with your pole?
What kind of telescoping pole do you use?
Which company is SB Outdoor? I don't know the wireless companies all that well yet. | |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20 | gammaone:
I stopped by Radio Shack today, but the guy didn't seem to know anything about it.
Do you know the stock number of the 36 foot pole?
Thanks | |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
1 edit | Hi gammaone:
I bought two today for a little more then $40. I'll probably sell the othere one, if it turns out I don't need it.
Do you fully extend it on the ground and attach everything on the pole while it is horozontal and then push it up in a vertical position?
Once in a vertical position, are you saying you attach it to a tripod? That has to be some really large tripod for that tall and heavy pole. I'm just curious how you hold that pole vertical. I'm thinking of getting a Thule mount for the hitch on my van. I will have to move my van near the location of the antenna however.
I sure wish these things were aluminum...LOL. | |
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| robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? said by Airplane777 :Do you fully extend it on the ground and attach everything on the pole while it is horozontal and then push it up in a vertical position? No -- never extend a mast and they try to erect it. You must first get it secured in a vertical position. Put any equipment on it that you want and then extend it.
I had set up a mount on my previous van. I used a tractor hitch pin in my trailer receiver for the mast to stand on. At the top of the van I had a piece of square tubing which has holes every inch or so mounted to my ladder rack. I had one size smaller tubing mounted to the antenna mast. So all I had to do was step the mast on the hitch, slide the smaller tubing into the one mounted on the van, put a pin through one of the holes, and then get way up on the ladder to extend it. I was able to successfully survey with a 50' Rohn mast and Trango radio on it (only tried this without any wind). The higher you go, the more the mast leans. Without guying, you will run into a problem on a long survey as you can't keep the mast vertical (it leans with the weight of the equipment) | |
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| | Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
4 edits | Re: WISP site survey poles ? Hi robbin:
Thanks for the valuable input.
I don't understand your complete explanation.
I'm not sure what a tractor hitch pin or trailer receiver is. I may have seen them, but just don't know their names.
I assume the trailer receiver is the piece of heavy duty steel, mounted up underneath my back bumper...the square hole in my hitch. This is the thing that my big metal square piece (with the ball on it) slips into. Except I guess you took the ball off.
I think I understand the square tubing with holes. I can mount that to my roof rack temporarily. Maybe with strong ty straps.
After that, I'm confused.
Wow. A 50' mast. Thats tall. I thought the 36 foot mast I got from Radio Shack today was tall and heavy. Yours must take two people just to lift it?
Could you do a drawing of your set up and maybe take a digital pix of it? That might help me understand the setup.
Thanks so much. | |
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| | | robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? One person could do it without any problem. I am not still using the truck and have taken the pole apart, but I still have the old van and took a few pics for you.
Hitch setup
Rack Attachment
Mast up position
I don't have the mast attached, but basically the mast stood on the hitch (I used the tractor pin because the farm supply was close and I knew one of these would fit inside of the bottom of the mast -- a large bolt would work) and then went through the strapping at the top. It was fairly secure; once again, no wind and park level.
If I set this up again, I want a platform on my ladder rack which I can get on to raise the mast. | |
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| | | | Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? Hi robbin:
Thanks so much. Thanks for going out of your way to do those pictures. It is comming together now.
Gee, I could get one of those tractor pins somewhere around here or see if I can find an overgrown bolt...LOL.
It looks like you used some square metal tubing with holes in it. On the one end you have some flexible metal strap hooked back on itself with a loop in the end. Looks like you have wing bolts on that strap so you can easily undo the strap.
As far as hooking the square pipe to the wood, it looks like you used some U bolts for that.
I'm not sure if I see what you used to secure the wood to your van rack. The wood looks like a 2 x 4?
That sure looks like it should be secure. | |
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| | | | | robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
2 edits | Re: WISP site survey poles ? The wood is a treated 2x6. The ladder rack is round tubing for the cross sections and I used ubolts for that. The square tubing to wood connection are just bolts through the wood and holes in the tubing. You can get that type of square tubing at Lowes.
I used the wing bolts on the strap so I could remove it, but in practice, it stayed on the mast.
[Edit -- The U shaped pieces you see in the third pic are some quick release type pins from the farm supply. You just stick the pin through the hole and slip the u shaped piece over the end of the pin to keep it in the hole. You could just use bolts.]
[Edit2 -- I used the same kind of pins in the mast when I was raising it. Everything went up and came down very fast.] | |
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| | | | | | Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? Really neat robbin:
You have a really nice setup there. I will try to get something similiar to that.
I was looking for one 36 foot mast today and wound up buying two today...LOL. I guess I will have to get a tall ladder, so that I can get to where I can raise the sections.
I'm now trying to get my Rootenna set up with the Senao CB3+ delux. Gee,that thing doesn't give me hardly any indication of the signal quality.
The CB3 works great as an AP. And I can use my Orinoco Gold card with it to get great results of site surveys. But...
As a CPE the CB3 doesn't give me much of any indication at all as to the quality of the signal it is receiving. I can tell it is probably doing a very good job, but I don't know how good. Maybe I should mention this for a seperate post, since this is a seperate issue.
My wife wants me to go for a walk. So I will probably come back and do a seperate post on how to see the quality of signal with the CB3 when used as a CPE device.
I still may buy that 23 foot 3 section mast from Home Depot I found in the painting section. It is a little more portable then this larger mast. I'm sure I will find a place for both of them | |
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| gammaone
join:2004-05-14
Clovis, CA
| We do extend it on the ground, with the CPE attached (Tranzeo CPE200-19, extremely light) and lift it from there. This is a two man operation if you do not have the base mounted to something immobile and you will need to latch the top to something. I use a metal strap that locks to the rack on the truck, so its secured at the ground level and at the 7' mark.
Another way to do this is to lock your pole into its vertical position while its not extended and get in the back of your truck (or on top of your van), mount your radio and then raise it in sections.
Someone said it here too.. do NOT do this near power lines or during a windy day. | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? Hey gang?, wouldn't it be a lot easier to unpack a ladder and climb on the roof and just test?. I am not trying to irritate anyone, I have just been in a situation once or twice when it would hook from the street but not on the roof?:)
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| | | wispman
join:2004-12-21
USA | Re: WISP site survey poles ? I've been there lots. I only test from exactly where I will mount antenns. from roof. From there, I can co 20' if need be. | |
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| | | magnushsi
join:2002-11-06
Cedar Springs, MI
| The problem is then you need to coordinate with the customer to get on the roof, etc. I go do 12 or so site surveys in a day. Much easier to tell the customer that someone will pull up to their house to test sometime during the day. We don't like to be climbing on roofs without someone home or if the customer approves we want a second person there...If the ladder falls, etc...Cost is pretty small for a single person survey setup. | |
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| | | | wispman
join:2004-12-21
USA | Re: WISP site survey poles ? Heck, if the customer is home, they say yes. If they are not, then they can't say no.  | |
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| | | robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| said by superdog :Hey gang?, wouldn't it be a lot easier to unpack a ladder and climb on the roof and just test?... Actually, the reason I set up mine is I seem to attract every person who has built a house in the area with a 12/12 or 15/12 pitch. I much prefer to get an idea of how high I have to be before I rig the roof for safe climbing and work. I never thought there were so many steep roofs in Texas before I started installing on them! | |
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| | | | wispman
join:2004-12-21
USA | Re: WISP site survey poles ? I had one yesterday, 12 12. Had to install. I threw a rope over, tied it to my bumper, and climbed it. Hey, I'm not dead. | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| Re: WISP site survey poles ? said by wispman :I had one yesterday, 12 12. Had to install. I threw a rope over, tied it to my bumper, and climbed it. Hey, I'm not dead. Yet!;). Awhile back, I was on a roof AND I had a harness on. I was working on the far side of the roof, and I went over to the other side, forgetting to shorten the rope as I have been doing this for years and my confidence was just a little better then the grip of my boots, I went over and grabbed the rope by instinct with bare hands, feeding about 35 feet of rope thru my hands. The rope stopped me from hitting the ground, but I was about 1 foot in the air at this point with the neighbors german shepperd growling at me. I knew that I HAD to do something, as I only had 10 minutes before I would pass out. I reached up with burns all over my hands and lifted myself up so that I could undo the knot(Yes, the knot,as this rope didn't have the quick connect on it) and drop to the ground. Then I had to walk around the house back to the ladder and climb back up on the roof to get my cell phone and climb back down to call for help. I ended up with 2nd and 3rd degree burns all over my hands. DONT DO STUPID SHIT:(
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| | | | | robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
1 edit | said by wispman : Hey, I'm not dead. Be very careful so that remains true! This is probably the hardest part of being a WISP. Every install is different and potentially deadly! | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by robbin :Actually, the reason I set up mine is I seem to attract every person who has built a house in the area with a 12/12 or 15/12 pitch. LMAO!!!. I seem to have the same issue, thats why I have a "chicken" ladder on my truck. It is called that because it looks like the little ladder that chickens use to climb in and out of the coops, not because You are to "chicken" to climb the roof:D . It is very light, and made out of lathing with hooks at the top to go over the peak and hold it in place. I use it for really pitched roofs AND when I have to walk on a slate or tile roof, as it spreads my 190 pound fat a$$ out so I don't break the slate or tile by walking on it.:)
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