RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to Steve
Re: WRONG
Way to crap the thread there, Steve  . Nowhere in that response was "pirate", "thief" or even "P2P" mentioned. AbBaZaBbA makes a very valid point, which you evidently can't rebut so you trotted out the tired, lazy trick of off-topic distraction. Your love affair with Apple is clouding your vision. iTunes is mediocre at best.
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Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| said by RadioDoc :Way to crap the thread there, Steve . Nowhere in that response was "pirate", "thief" or even "P2P" mentioned. So discussing piracy and greed in a thread about piracy and greed is off topic? No wonder you're not a moderator anymoreYour love affair with Apple HUH?
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| If you want to talk about piracy and greed, you need look
no further than the industry itself (or more precisely,
the Big Four). The current standard recording contract
scheme is by design exploitative of both artists and
ultimately, the consumer. Just visit Boycott-RIAA and
P2Pnet regularly, and you'll see beyond the industry's
doublespeak. Do major label artists get fairly compensated
for their work - CD sales or online downloads? Hardly. The
labels give them precious little of the profits (royalties)
from them. There have been numerous legal battles over this.
And speaking of lawsuits, not one penny of the $30 million
in settlement money has gone to any of the artists the
industry allegedly represents.
Indies and smaller label (non-RIAA affiliated)
artists do get better deals. But their music is
hardly ever played due to the RIAA marginalizing it
via Clear Channel and other means. They want to control
ALL music, not just their own. The real reason for stopping
filesharing is not any they've publicly claimed and that
much of the major media has parroted, but is control. For
most small and Indie labels, p2p is a godsend as there is
often no other way for listeners to get exposure to their
music. And that's what the RIAA is trying to stop.
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"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.To RIAA/MPAA - You can sue but you can't catch everyone! |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
| reply to Steve
said by Steve :said by RadioDoc :Way to crap the thread there, Steve . Nowhere in that response was "pirate", "thief" or even "P2P" mentioned. So discussing piracy and greed in a thread about piracy and greed is off topic? No wonder you're not a moderator anymore Your love affair with Apple HUH? Heh heh. Steve's just Apple-Curious.  |
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redhatnation
Premium
join:2005-06-02
Woodbridge, VA
·Comcast
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc : iTunes is mediocre at best. Can you enlighten this iTunes user about why you think it is mediocre at best? Seriously.
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My server has been up longer than your server. |
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| said by redhatnation :said by RadioDoc : iTunes is mediocre at best. Can you enlighten this iTunes user about why you think it is mediocre at best? Seriously. I'll try,Itunes uses whats called DRM. Digital Rights Management.Which determines and/or limits,Where and an what you may play your legally purchased music on.In other words
you did not purchase music.Only the right to play it. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to redhatnation
said by redhatnation :said by RadioDoc : iTunes is mediocre at best. Can you enlighten this iTunes user about why you think it is mediocre at best? Seriously. Sure. So far I've got less than a 50% "find" rate via iTunes (yes I am an iTunes user too) on click-through from Radio Paradise and a couple other major online Internet radio stations, not oddball obscure stuff nobody ever heard of. It seems that if it's not mass-appeal pop there is very little there. If they want to be viable in the long run they need to significantly widen the library.
--
Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. |
|
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to Steve
said by Steve :said by RadioDoc :Way to crap the thread there, Steve . Nowhere in that response was "pirate", "thief" or even "P2P" mentioned. So discussing piracy and greed in a thread about piracy and greed is off topic? No wonder you're not a moderator anymore Your love affair with Apple HUH? Just as expected you don't address the question--again--but instead attack the questioner. That's at least twice in this subthread alone now. You have no basis for your stand so you resort to even more off topic nonsense. Go back to Usenet.
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Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to guitarzan
"I'll try,Itunes uses whats called DRM. Digital Rights Management.Which determines and/or limits,Where and an what you may play your legally purchased music on.In other words
you did not purchase music.Only the right to play it."
Whoa there! First, it's called 'Digital Restrictions' not 'Digital Rights'. It takes away rights, it doesn't give them to you. Don't fall into the trap of using their doublespeak words. Allow me to explais, as I can play all my CD music just fine on my computer, and MP3's too, all without 'Digital Restrictions'. Please explain what 'Rights' I get under their 'Digital RIGHTS Management' that I don't already have?
Now, to the sticky point.. "I did not purchase the music".. or... "I purchased the right to play it".
Ok, so, when I buy a CD, did I purchase the music? How is that any different than if I buy it from the itunes store? I mean, both are DIGITAL FORMATS of the same song, in fact, the CD is much higher quality. Does the fact that I bought it online take away my right of First Sale? Hmm.. Sorry, an EULA cannot take away the right of first sale, as the RIAA discovered when they tried to shut down used CD stores. So, I purchased the music, but, if you want to be very picky, and 'follow the EULA', then I purchased the right to play that music, but not that music (even if I bought a CD).
Ok, so I've purchased the right to play the music, well then, that's even better! I can thus download the MP3 version of it, and hey, SHARE the MP3 version of it, to anyone else who has purchased 'the right to play the song'. Cause, remember, I purchased the RIGHT to play it, it's not my job to make sure the other person has purchased the same rights, I've done my job, I paid for it.
Which is it? They can't have it both ways. Either I bought a physical product, of which I can do with what I want, and no EULA can take away those rights, or I purchased the right to listen to a song by artist xyz, in which case I can download the MP3 version, etc, etc, all within my legal rights.
The rightthink and doublespeak of the industry survived for a long time, because the only 'effective' way to get music was via a physical medium (LP, Tape, CD). Of course, time has show that ANY attempt to 'RESTRICT' what people can do with their legally purchased product is doomed to fail (i.e. DAT tapes, Itunes cracked, etc). People know the DCMA is a flawed stupid act, and can't be enforced outside of the US. Now, a law that you can't enforce is bad. But a law that you enforce soley for the benefit of the mafia coroporations, well that's how revolutions are started.
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Grand Poobah |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
1 edit | reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc : Just as expected you don't address the question-- again--but instead attack the questioner. I've been squarely addressing the topic in this thread, and it looks to have been a lively discussion with pretty good points raised on the "other" side and bringing about a clarity of views.
The only two off-topic posts have been yours and Mr. STFU.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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redhatnation
Premium
join:2005-06-02
Woodbridge, VA
·Comcast
| reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan :said by redhatnation :said by RadioDoc : iTunes is mediocre at best. Can you enlighten this iTunes user about why you think it is mediocre at best? Seriously. I'll try,Itunes uses whats called DRM. Digital Rights Management.Which determines and/or limits,Where and an what you may play your legally purchased music on.In other words you did not purchase music.Only the right to play it. While I can understand the point, Apple's DRM hasn't gotten in my way yet. I can rip my tunes to Audio CDs and play them in the car. I can copy my tunes to my ipod and listen to them at the gym, walking, on the subway. I could even re-rip the Audio CD back to MP3 if I so desired.
What else?
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My server has been up longer than your server. |
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redhatnation
Premium
join:2005-06-02
Woodbridge, VA
·Comcast
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :said by redhatnation :said by RadioDoc : iTunes is mediocre at best. Can you enlighten this iTunes user about why you think it is mediocre at best? Seriously. Sure. So far I've got less than a 50% "find" rate via iTunes (yes I am an iTunes user too) on click-through from Radio Paradise and a couple other major online Internet radio stations, not oddball obscure stuff nobody ever heard of. It seems that if it's not mass-appeal pop there is very little there. If they want to be viable in the long run they need to significantly widen the library. Thank you for the reply. That's a good point. While I haven't kept track of my find rate, I'm a classical music kook -- and iTunes has been more miss than hit in that department.
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My server has been up longer than your server. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to Steve
And again. You really don't get it, do you?
You are not a mod anymore either (gee I wonder why?), so you have no right to determine who is and who is not a moron. However, calling someone a moron here is a violation of the site's posting rules.
The OP stated a fact, and then an opinion. You flamed the person and ignored the question, just like any garden-variety message board troll always does. Putting certain words in bold face makes you look even sillier. You have no basis for your attack so you just talk louder.
The greed of the RIAA-member companies is legendary. You can't make that go away by using sleazy debating tactics.
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Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by RadioDoc :The greed of the RIAA-member companies is legendary. You can't make that go away by using sleazy debating tactics. Steve 's argument is that their greed isn't a valid reason to engage in piracy. It's an entirely moot point and he's completely right.
Show me the part in the rule books where wrongs should be counter-acted upon by an equal wrong.
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This signiture pisses you off. |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| said by yock : Steve 's argument is that their greed isn't a valid reason to engage in piracy. Couldn't agree more.
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$(perl -e 'print pack("H*","6d616e207065726c0a")') |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :You are not a mod anymore either (gee I wonder why?) I resigned; shall we speculate about you?The greed of the RIAA-member companies is legendary. You can't make that go away by using sleazy debating tactics. I don't believe I ever tried to. Holding the thread up to a strong light, we see that I called them thugs and hoped that their entire business model would go away. I am not sure that qualifies me as any kind of RIAA fanboy.
But they are not the only greedy ones. Those who are trying to bring about better business models are doing good work, but there is a large contingent of those who are not taking this principled approach, and just take everything they can get without any consideration for artists and won't ever pay anybody.
RIAA's greed at least has a fig leaf of moral cover, in that they are acting as agents for valid copyright owners. Those who steal in wholesale have no such principled cover.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to yock
I know what Steve 's point is. My point is that he crapped the thread again pushing it where it doesn't belong.
said by Original post:
Itunes _ONLY_ purpose for apple is a promotional tool for ipods. Apple (as well as the artists) make hardly anything (a couple cents) off of each download because of the greedy record companies. said by Steve 's ad hominem response:As opposed to the greedy users, who think nothing of stealing every bit of music they can find? This is about iTunes alleged success. Nowhere is there anything about "piracy".
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Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by Complete original post; emphasis added:
Enron also LOOKED like it was doing well.
Itunes _ONLY_ purpose for apple is a promotional tool for ipods. Apple (as well as the artists) make hardly anything (a couple cents) off of each download because of the greedy record companies.
Steve's post looks quite apropos when you look at the entire thing.
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This signiture pisses you off. |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| reply to RadioDoc
Oh yah? |
said by RadioDoc :This is about iTunes alleged success. Nowhere is there anything about "piracy".
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :This is about iTunes alleged success. Nowhere is there anything about "piracy". And the OP's statements didn't insinuate people aren't still stealing music via iTunes? I'd call that piracy.
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$(perl -e 'print pack("H*","6d616e207065726c0a")') |
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