madyazzer
join:2003-06-18
Norman, OK
| [Other] [LiveVoip] - Bankrupt
This just in... They've been down more than up for the past week, with "network failures." I thought it "smelled" like bills not getting paid, and it appears that might be the case.
This is a forwarded message
From: LiveVoip Support Team
To: [redacted]
Date: Sunday, June 26, 2005, 3:04:06 AM
Subject: United States Federal Bankruptcy Court-Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC
===8===============Original message text===============
There is a Federal Court Order in place and has been since Friday early a.m. ALL Suppliers are now under a Court Order that prevents them from terminating any and all services to LiveVoip LLC. If they take such any action they will be in direct
violation of a U.S. Federal Court Order. If you have any questions you may contact our lawyer - Customers and Creditors are now under a U.S. Court Ordered Stay NOT to have any contact with LiveVoip LLC Management.
LiveVoip LLC has Ceased Operations and Filed for Bankruptcy. This action was taken after the company was unable to resolve issues with carriers over billing, mass credit card fraud, suppliers not delivering on what they had been paid for among other things.
A Stay Order is in effect at this time and all questions must be directed to our company lawyer. Creditors will be hearing from the Courts in due course.
LiveVoip LLC is no Closed.
United States Federal Bankruptcy Court District Montana
Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC
Company Lawyer: Robert Kampfer Esq. 406.727.954
The LiveVoip network is offline. An Update will be issued on our main website. The trouble ticket server is also having its own problems. Please watch our main for site for complete details.
LiveVoip LLC
===8============End of original message text===========
--
tmy@oklahoma-isp.net
»www.do-not-call.com
»www.junkfaxes.org |
|
Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
·Comcast
·Charter Pipeline
 ·Comcast Digital Vo..
·AT&T CallVantage
| Well, that's one down, many to go.
In my opinion, this should be a lesson for those deciding on VoIP for phone service that they should always go with a reputable company with a good background in service and satisfaction.
Glad I stuck it out on AT&T. |
|
da_guy
@mindspring.com
| reply to madyazzer
Haha, this is great! I used their prepay service for a while, but their customer service totally sucked and was very arrogant. They basically told me that I don't qualify as a customer, and disconnected my service. The bankruptcy really made my day :P |
|
TexasPlus
join:2004-06-16
Bedford, TX
 ·Millenicom
·ViaTalk
| reply to Chris 313
said by Chris 313  :should always go with a reputable company with a good background in service and satisfaction. Glad I stuck it out on AT&T. Hummm, "reputable company" and "AT&T" do not go together in my book.
Just one example. Ask how the thousands of people in the DFW metroplex that fell victim to AT&T cooperate whims feel about AT&T. These paying customers of AT&T lost not only all phone service, ported phone numbers, and their high speed internet connection about three years ago. AT&T decided practical overnight that they did not want to play in the wireless provider marketplace anymore. Boom just pulled the plug and stranded thousands. |
|
Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast
·Charter Pipeline
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·AT&T CallVantage
| said by TexasPlus :said by Chris 313 :should always go with a reputable company with a good background in service and satisfaction. Glad I stuck it out on AT&T. Hummm, "reputable company" and "AT&T" do not go together in my book. Just one example. Ask how the thousands of people in the DFW metroplex that fell victim to AT&T cooperate whims feel about AT&T. These paying customers of AT&T lost not only all phone service, ported phone numbers, and their high speed internet connection about three years ago. AT&T decided practical overnight that they did not want to play in the wireless provider marketplace anymore. Boom just pulled the plug and stranded thousands. That is really sad, but I've never encountered problems like that before. I hope I never do. If I lose service because of a situation like that, I could probably go to Vonage or if I'm really desperate, have my Bellsouth line reconnected. |
|
prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
·VoiceStick
| reply to madyazzer
Unfortunate but as a previous poster mentioned, this will be the first of many. Nboom has shut down, nufone is reportedly the victim of scams which imperil it's future, and LiveVOIP says part of their problem was "massive credit card fraud" if that is to be believed.
The next couple of months will probably be very interesting as dozens or hundreds of VOIP providers close their doors unable to deliver E911 as required by the FCC.
However, larger VOIP providers can survive bankruptcy as Dialpad did in 2001. They emerged from bankruptcy and seem to have done fine and now will become a part of Yahoo. So even bankruptcy may not end any of the larger VOIP providers but most small VOIP players are likely to disappear really, really soon. |
|
georgepan
join:2005-05-09
Wesley Chapel, FL
| reply to madyazzer
Prestonlewis-
"Massive credit card fraud" is an issue with VOIPs that allow instant access to their services via BYOD. The automated system accepts stolen credit cards (until they are reported as stolen) and the VOIP racks up huge international call charges in the meantime. Broadvoice had this prevalent problem at the same time as their other issue with Global Crossings billing disputes popped up. So far they've survived all of this, but it seems many have left to go elsewhere. |
|
illek
Premium
join:2005-03-23
Tulsa, OK
| "Massive credit card fraud" is an issue with VOIPs that allow instant access to their services via BYOD."
I don't think BYOD has anything to do with it. I could go to Best Buy now and pick up a Vonage, AT&T or Packet8 adapter and be accessing their networks within minutes. The issue is credit card fraud, not BYOD.
--
"Put down that coffee...coffee is for closers" |
|
burgerwars
join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA | reply to georgepan
I wonder too, whether Broadvoice or others will face the same fate. Anyone know how big LiveVoip was? How many customers? I've really never heard of them. If they had few customers and large operating costs, could that also be the problem? |
|
DracoFelis
Premium
join:2003-06-15
| reply to illek
said by illek :The issue is credit card fraud, not BYOD. Agreed! You can put the same CC "anti-fraud" measures (for example, a waiting period, verifying that the billing address matches the CC, etc) in for BYOD that you do for a service that ships out their own adapter.
For example, my BYOD DialPad.com only allowed 100 minutes on my account for the first day or two, while they verified my CC info (presumably so they didn't lose much money if my info had turned out to be fraudulent). After they completed their "verification", my dialpad.com account was automatically switched to "unlimited". So there are (reasonably easy) ways to cut down on CC fraud with BYOD.
And besides BYOD not being the problem, it can be useful from a business standpoint. People are finally buying their own adapters, and allowing BYOD is just good business IMHO. |
|
MillsapsPE
Premium
join:2003-01-31
New Braunfels, TX
3 edits | reply to madyazzer
I have an account w/ LiveVoip (outgoing only), I haven't received any emails from them. Did you happen to have an open trouble ticket?
I had about 2000 minutes left on my account w/ them. I guess they are gone. I'm not at the office now to verify my outgoing service is down.
EDIT:
Ok, I see they have that message on their main web page. They've also cut off all sub-pages. The main page is the only working page now. |
|
MillsapsPE
Premium
join:2003-01-31
New Braunfels, TX | reply to madyazzer
...or... maybe they went bankrupt because they ticked off most of their customers with arrogant, rude, CS, or the ever poplular, "we don't want your type of business". |
|
burgerwars
join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA
·voip.ms
·RoadRunner Cable
2 edits | reply to madyazzer
I went to their website and was curious where their "World Headquarters" was located in Mesa Arizona. In Google Maps I brought up the satellite image for 7228 East Volante Avenue, Mesa, AZ 85212, which is listed as their address on their website, and attached it here. From the image, it certainly looks like a residential neighborhood. Was their "world headquarters" in someone's house?
The company did seem to try to make themselves look bigger then they are, with numbers for regional sales in New York and Los Angeles with local area codes, along with a New York number for their "LiveVoip Global Switch Center." They also have on their website a "Government Sales number in Herndon, Virginia," which I guess was to make it look like they're actively signing up the U.S. Government to use their service. In dialing these numbers (obviously just virtual numbers), they don't work or they do seem to be going to the same LiveVoip company number (maybe in that house in Mesa), where any option I chose it hung up on me.
Their demise I feel is no biggie, because they were no biggie. I'm just wondering if any of their customers can port their phone numbers elsewhere, or since they just shut everything down, they're now gone. That could hurt other businesses if they relied on those numbers. |
|
georgepan
join:2005-05-09
Wesley Chapel, FL
| reply to madyazzer
illek-
The issue is not BYOD per se, but BYOD makes credit card fraud more likely due to the instant nature of the connection. VOIPs who take an order and ship out a pre-programmed adapter to arrive a week later are obviously much less probable to fall victim to credit card fraud attempts. Yes, one can purchase a Vonage adapter at Best Buy, and credit card fraund there can also be a factor, more so than with shipped, pre-programmed adapters that take up to 10 days after ordering to arrive at the destination. However, even there you have a much greater fraud threshold. One has to physically show a credit card and sign for it in the presence of a sales person, there are cameras all over the place taping the specific transaction. What is the fraud threshold of someone signing up anonymously over the internet for an instant BYOD account with, say, Broadvoice?
Dracofelis-
Yes, they can put anti-fraud measures in (like the Dialpad plan you mentioned) but many don't. Thus the problem they are facing. Broadvoice made specific mention that they have been victimized by massive credit card fraud due to the immediacy of the service via BYOD. It simply is less of an issue or none at all with shipped, pre-programmed adapters. Now, that is what HAS been happening in the past. Smart VOIPs put in extra security measures such as "call limits for the first week of service" to curb fraud in the future. |
|
illek
Premium
join:2005-03-23
Tulsa, OK | reply to burgerwars
Actually, if you look closely, it looks like a MOBILE HOME PARK!!!
--
"Put down that coffee...coffee is for closers" |
|
Just Waiting
@comcast.net
| reply to madyazzer
Here's a little closer picture......not a trailer park, but definately residential |
|
ainsane
join:2005-04-18
Canada | reply to madyazzer
This sucks. They had $30 of my money in prepaid incoming minutes.
Bastards. |
|
lollers
@aircanopy.net
| reply to madyazzer
Is anyone really surprised? Let's see here:
1) Unprofessional website
2) Ridiculous verbage ("world headquarters" and "government sales" -- just plain STUPID)
3) Rates too low to make a profit (1.3 cents for toll-free, are you kidding me?)
4) Been shut off before by previous providers
5) Obvious lemonade stand business
If you gave those jokers a penny, you're a moron. Find a real carrier next time that actually has some financial backing, and a business plan. |
|
illek
Premium
join:2005-03-23
Tulsa, OK
| reply to georgepan
said by georgepan :illek- The issue is not BYOD per se, but BYOD makes credit card fraud more likely due to the instant nature of the connection. VOIPs who take an order and ship out a pre-programmed adapter to arrive a week later are obviously much less probable to fall victim to credit card fraud attempts. Yes, one can purchase a Vonage adapter at Best Buy, and credit card fraund there can also be a factor, more so than with shipped, pre-programmed adapters that take up to 10 days after ordering to arrive at the destination. However, even there you have a much greater fraud threshold. One has to physically show a credit card and sign for it in the presence of a sales person, there are cameras all over the place taping the specific transaction. What is the fraud threshold of someone signing up anonymously over the internet for an instant BYOD account with, say, Broadvoice? Sorry, your analogy does not hold water. Time is of the essence in cc fraud, not whether you use BYOD. I can order an ATA online from Best Buy as easily as I can drive to the store so the validity of my CC is the real question. I suppose you can make an argument that providers who connect instantly are more vulnerble because the bad CC's have not yet manifested themselves but it is not limited to BYOD services (i.e., Vonage, P8, Lingo, AT&T are just as susceptible).
--
"Put down that coffee...coffee is for closers" |
|
M00T
join:2005-01-19
Vienna, VA | reply to madyazzer
Oh geez... are we now saying that BYOD causes the downfall of VOIP. Totally ignorant statement. BYOD has nothing to with any of this. |
|
