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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to G_Poobah
Re: Verizon just doesn't get it.
My analogy was correct. I purchased a car that CAN carry 8 people, but according to Fords 'terms of service', only I can use the car by myself. If I choose to ignore that rule, and carry 8 people means that Ford lost 7 'potential sales', thus if you make EVERYONE follow Fords 'terms of service', then all 7 of my passengers would need to purchase their own Ford cars. My bringing them with me (sharing) is causing lost revenue (lost sales) to Ford.
The tupperware argument has no basis. We are talking about a 'transient service', not a physical good. Every instant in time, it's either being used or not being used. If it's not being used, then it's lost forever, that's what 'transient' means. Completely different concept than physical goods. You can't apply the arguments of 'physical loss' to this, only 'potential loss'. Very well defined in case law.
The transient authority is a good analogy. If I buy a pass to the Metro in DC, I can use it all I want. In fact, I can give it out to my friends, and it's violation of terms of service. But wait, I can't use the pass when my friend has it, so, am I really in violation? I would argue no, since I can't physically use the pass while my friend has it. It's the same with internet access. If my 'friend' is using all 500Kb of download, then guess what, I can't download! It's simple enough to understand, but is it wrong? no.. I paid for 500kb of download service. Period.
What people are trying to argue is that it's legally wrong. It's 100% NOT legally wrong. I paid for the service, I can use the service the way I SEE FIT, terms of service be damned. PERIOD.
Is it morally wrong? Hmm.. maybe, but maybe not. Morals are very subjective.
Is it unprofitable for the business that sold me this service? Absolutely. Will the business use doublespeak and lies to try and prevent this, and improve their bottom line? I sure hope so, otherwise I wouldn't want to be a shareholder.
Be sure to separate moral/religious beliefs from legal beliefs. If they advertise 'unlimited access', then LEGALLY, I can use the unlimited as unlimited. If they don't like it, then they just need to remove the words 'unlimited' from their advertising, and clearly define what I can/cannot do with their service. So pray tell me why they haven't done that?
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Grand Poobah | |
Dexter9999
join:2002-12-11
Somerville, NJ
| I think Verizons statement below covers the legal aspect, in that it says the service is for Individual use and not to be resold.
Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess: NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess data sessions may be used with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email and individual productivity applications such as customer relationship management, sales force and field service automation). Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess is for individual use only and not for resale. Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess cannot be used: (1) for uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games; (2) with server devices or with host computer applications, including, without limitation, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, telemetry applications, automated functions or any other machine-to-machine application; or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections. NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess data sessions automatically terminate after two hours of inactivity unless used with a Mobile IP-capable device. We reserve the right to limit throughput or amount of data transferred, deny or terminate service, without notice, to anyone who uses NationalAccess or BroadbandAccess in any manner prohibited above or whose usage adversely impacts our network or service levels. We also reserve the right to terminate service upon expiration of Customer Agreement term. BroadbandAccess kilobyte usage may not appear on your bill.
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stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
| The agreement says that I cannot use it is as a backup for my broadband. The provision states that:
"Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess cannot be used: (* * * (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections."
Literally read, I cannot use their broadband in any place where private lines or dedicates data connections are available. Certainly, that means that if my cable modem goes down, don't even think about using their card at home. Arguably, it could be read to say that I couldn't use it at a hotel that has paid broadband in the room or in a Starbucks.
The problem is that the terms and conditions are written so poorly that they can apply the Rorscharch (sp?) inkblot school of contract construction -- they can twist it to mean whatever they think it means. | |
Dexter9999
join:2002-12-11
Somerville, NJ
| You're right...the agreement is vague...probably intentionally. In any event, no one forced me to agree to it, but I did and I will abide by it.
I think what they mean in section 3 is that if you have a T1 line that you pay $600+/month for with a SLA and that line goes down, don't use this card as the backup. We for example use BRI ISDN in some cases for that purpose in remote offices.
We pay a lot of money for a T1 because the agreement we signed allows us to use it the way we want. This is the difference between a T1 with a Service Level Agreement and the EV-DO card that cost's $80/month. | |
stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
·Verizon BroadbandA..
| I understand their complaint about running an office off an EVDO line Conversely, if my wife and I share the connection in a hotel room, I'm not sure what the complaint is. I suspect that there wouldn't be one, but you are always at their mercy.
Verizon should give thought to making these mobile hotspots legit. I'm sure that a number of limo companies, charter bus companies, and companies that regularly do trade shows, etc. would be very interested in this service. | |
Dexter9999
join:2002-12-11
Somerville, NJ
| I also suspect that they wouldn't give you a hard time about sharing the connection with your wife (what you do in the hotel room is your business,) but how to you write that into a TOS? That's why the TOS is so broad.
Verizon may be interested in letting a limo/bus etc. resell the servie, but not at $80/month. | |
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