superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
|  I want to start a wireless ISP-Any thoughts?
I am thinking about starting a wireless ISP and I need some advice(what is the best equipment to use etc.....)If any one has ANY ideas please let me know???,I live in the middle of NOWHERE and everyone that lives in my area will NEVER have the chance for DSL as the average home is more than 28,000 ft from the nearest switch(lucky I get a dial tone huh!)and cable will not be an option as there not 10 houses per square mile(Comcasts minimum requirement for an install).I have wireless now but only by the grace of God as I live on a very large hill that is just close enough to an ISP that has just started to play with wireless and has no plans to expand into my service area,thanks!!!! |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT
| As I understand you, you are getting wireless from your ISP
and you want to distribute the service to your own clients?
Is your ISP OK with this? Most ISPs would consider this to
violate their terms of agreement which would probably result
in them terminating your account and leaving you out in the
dark.
Assuming it is OK with them for you to resell your service,
you would need to know some things about your current setup.
First, is it DSSS or FHSS? Are they Vertical polarity or are
they using Horizontal polarity? Do you know what channel is
being used (for DSSS) or which hopping sequence (for FHSS)?
That information will pretty much dictate which equipment
you can use.
You will also need to be able to get "LOS" (Line Of Sight)
to your anticipated customers. Since you have indicated that
there isn't too dense a population in your area, just how
many rooftops can you see from where you live? Could you
increase that amount by putting a 65 foot tower near your
house?
If you could supply us with some of these answers, we can
probably give you more specific answers to your questions. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to superdog
I'd like to echo everything that Ken mentioned. Excellent summary, Ken! 
Superdog1, you also might want to conduct some preliminary research and look into how much prospective subscribers are willing to pay for equipment costs, service costs, etc. Is there a true demand for wireless service? Do you have enough potential commercial clients who could pay for their own equipment and get you some positive revenues flowing while you look into building up your residential service offerings? How much will your backhaul circuit cost? If you're going to resell your current wireless connection, what kind of oversubscription ratio are you planning to offer to your subscribers (this goes hand-in-hand with how fast will your speeds be)?
Lots of questions to consider.
Ken, I'm wondering if we should start developing an FAQ for the forum, if you'd, and anyone else, would like to help out. 
Have a good one! |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT | Kory, I'm starting to feel like you're reading my mind. I've
been thinking about suggesting a FAQ with links to all the
information that has been submitted. Let me know if I can be
of any help. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| Scary, isn't it? 
Let me organize some thoughts and see what we can come up with, with everyone's help, of course.
In the meantime, y'all are more than welcome to check out the procedures for creating an FAQ here on DSLR. Lots of good info in there. |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
|  reply to newisp$
Hi,No I am not reusing my current ISP-I am trying to get a T1 from a local CLEC.As far as my location-I am 620 ft above sea level and when I look out my front door I can see about 25 miles out.I have been reading and studying every white paper I can find,the amount of info. is overwhelming to say the least.My current ISP is using Breezecom equip. at the 2.4 G. freq. and vertical polarity.As far as customers willing to pay....,Well my idea was that I would only charge for the customer premises equipment and I would do the install free? I would like to stay in the unlicensed Freq. band to avoid FCC problems but in doing research I am finding that it may be a bad idea?,any thoughts on this?,thanks |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT
| Could be a unique opportunity. You could use horizontal
polarity and so as to not disturb your current supplier.
Check out »www.midcoast.net/wirelessfaq.html for
everything you would ever want to know about starting a
Breezecom WISP operation.
I'm not sure where you've been researching but most of us
here (in the wireless forum) seem to think the unlicensed
spectrum is the place to be.
One last note, some of us feel that Breezecom's pricing
is too expensive (especially for the residential market).
I would advise against putting any equipment into anywhere
without getting all the hardware paid for first.
On the lighter side, should you decide to do this, I would
like to pass on some advice that was given to me when I was
first researching becoming a WISP -
No matter what you do:
Everything will take much longer than you expect.
It will be substantially more expensive than you forecast.
If you don't test it on the ground, it will not work once you put it into the air.
The CLEC will blame the TELCO and the TELCO doesn't care.
You will be overcharged on every bill and you will be lucky
to ever get it straightened out.
IF you are married, kiss the wife on the cheek and tell her
you will try to make time for her. (Practice lying in the
mirror several times to get the jist of telling boldface
lies.)
If you have children, they will get to see you on holidays
(after you deal with the Crisis D' Jour).
Finally, I would suggest you get to know your local spirits provider.
Kory, did I miss anything? |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| LOL!!! Very well said, Ken. I don't think I can add anything else here.
In fact, I was talking with one of my neighbors last night and he said he noticed that when he goes to work in the morning, I'm gone. When he comes home at night, I'm gone. When he drives by my house over the weekend, I'm gone. My kids and wife miss me and vice versa.
But, we all know that what I'm trying to do (as what many unlicensed providers are trying to do) will certainly change the way many people currently access the Internet. It's almost a cause for me. And, it'll definitely work out in the long run, IMHO.
Thx much for the excellent advice, Ken! |
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swilliams
join:1999-09-07
Mount Prospect, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
| said by korym:
But, we all know that what I'm trying to do (as what many unlicensed providers are trying to do) will certainly change the way many people currently access the Internet. It's almost a cause for me. And, it'll definitely work out in the long run, IMHO.
Being very new to the idea of wireless rather than traditional DSL, in your opinion, do you feel that traditional ILEC/CLEC based DSL is *not* where things are/should be headed and that wireless might be?
I realize the not having to bury/fly wires all over the place makes incredible economic sense... It seems at least here (western suburbs of chicago) that there are 5 or more small wireless companies that are all coming online covering my area at the about the same time.
Is this (again, IYO) going to be like it was when DSL started out e.g. Flashcoms of the world, jumping out there first and then flaming out? Is wireless something to dip a cautious toe into now rather than waiting around for the Illinois Commerce Commission and SBC to start playing nice and get Project Pronto going again?
I've been tempted with Sprint Broadband since it's available to me now but with all the lousy press here on the board it tends to make me (perhaps foolishly) paint the idea of wireless internet access (especially for running data feeds to my machines) with a "better wait for wired access" brush.
Yes/No?
Of course, my experiences will vary all over the place based on the company I might choose, but I'm very interested in your and other's opinions...
Thanks much |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| Hi Gang,Thanks for the info.!!!!(S williams-my wireless setup has yet to let me down in any weather condition,my guess is that the WISP in the Chigago area is having internal problems??).I agree that Breezecom equip. is expensive!!!!!!!,is there another alternative that matches quality etc.....?.I know You gave me the link for the FAQ and I will look there,thanks.What about routers etc......,I know enough to be really dangerous and when I get involved with any major type of computer problem I either fix it the first time or really screw it up and then tear it out and give my garbage man some job security!,any thoughts on what equipment is good,what is really junk etc....,by the way THANKS TO EVERYONE for all the great info!!!!!,You are all on my Christmas list!!! |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT
| OK, where to start. For routers, I have been thoroughly
impressed by Netopia. The tech support is 100% and the
product is great quality. And as I always say, check out
Ebay for pricing.
As to the wireless equipment - I'm sure it is a matter of
opinion as to whether the is a brand that is as good as
Breezecom (please don't post that question on the other
list as war could break out all over again). If you wish
to stay in the FHSS technology, your choices are limited.
802.11 FHSS
Raylink
»www.Raylink.com
Symbol
»www.symbol.com/products/wireless···och.html
Non 802.11
Proxim
»www.proxim.com
For DSSS equipment (it might usable in your application)
there is probably a thousand manufacturers. Some of the
major names are Cisco (Aironet), Lucent (Avaya) and a bunch
which haven't changed their name recently. If you decide to
look into DSSS, let me know and I'll give you some URLs to
check out.
And as a final comforting thought, we all started from zero.
For those of us who seem to stay there, there are plenty of
very highly paid experts to really mess things up if you are
in need of one. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| reply to swilliams
said by swilliams:
Being very new to the idea of wireless rather than traditional DSL, in your opinion, do you feel that traditional ILEC/CLEC based DSL is *not* where things are/should be headed and that wireless might be?
Nah, I think there will be room for both DSL and wireless technologies (and even cable modem access too!). I think every technology has its place. As much as I'd like to think fixed wireless access will be around forever, I think other technologies will come along and offer faster, cheaper and more efficient access over wireless, DSL and cable modem access. That's just the nature of the beast, IMHO. said by swilliams:
I realize the not having to bury/fly wires all over the place makes incredible economic sense... It seems at least here (western suburbs of chicago) that there are 5 or more small wireless companies that are all coming online covering my area at the about the same time.
Well, fixed wireless, IMHO again, is truly a blessing for very rural areas, for example, which are struggling to obtain broadband connections to the expense of laying cable and fiber out to areas which may not make much sense to target, financially. Fixed wireless can be fairly inexpensive to deploy, it can be deployed quickly and it can be deployed just about anywhere.
said by swilliams:
Is this (again, IYO) going to be like it was when DSL started out e.g. Flashcoms of the world, jumping out there first and then flaming out? Is wireless something to dip a cautious toe into now rather than waiting around for the Illinois Commerce Commission and SBC to start playing nice and get Project Pronto going again?
The cool thing about fixed wireless is that it's really only mandated by the FCC. And, since many of the providers are utilizing unlicensed equipment, the FCC us pretty much "hands-off." The only caveat an unlicensed provider has to worry about is ensure his or her equipment does not interfere with other radio equipment and can take the interference of other equipment without affecting the other equipment's performance. Many a WISP (from what I've witnessed) are courteous to their fellow WISP's and very in tune with their operating regions. And, there's no need for the state commissions to get involved since many aren't carrying voice traffic. But, this could change in the future, obviously!
said by swilliams:
I've been tempted with Sprint Broadband since it's available to me now but with all the lousy press here on the board it tends to make me (perhaps foolishly) paint the idea of wireless internet access (especially for running data feeds to my machines) with a "better wait for wired access" brush.
Well, it's difficult to compare WISPs' services to Sprint Broadband. Yes, both are utilizing fixed wireless technologies. But, Sprint BBD is utilizing licensed MMDS spectrums while the unlicensed players obviously aren't. Sprint is deploying "supercells" where they are trying to hit customers over a 35-square mile radius. This is actually pretty unrealistic due to line-of-sight issues and distance limitations. Many WISP's are deploying more realistic 5-15 mile cells which are far easier to manage and maintain.
said by swilliams:
Yes/No?
What was the question again?
HTH! |
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aldonorth
join:2001-04-21
Carlisle, AR
| reply to superdog
Don't mess with the local telco for the T1, try UU Net (now Worldcom) or someone like that. It has been our exprience that if the local lines have trouble, then UU Net goes to bat for us. Since they credit us for any downtime, they work on it rather hard. |
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swilliams
join:1999-09-07
Mount Prospect, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to korym
So then, again, in your opinion (but as moderator you obviously know your stuff!)...
A wireless connection (assuming it was being fed from a good WISP of course) could be considered a legitimate alternative to wire based DSL/cable when considering what connection options are available for a home based business.
I certainly don't have T-1 SLA reliability requirements, but when I go to send email or open up my data feeds, the net will be there for me...? |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| Definitely, swilliams. We have a few businesses online (granted, we just started offering our service about a month ago) and one of them lost a connection one time when static electricity fried the Ethernet port on their radio. We were down there in half an hour with a spare radio and had it replaced in 15 minutes. We've since put a surge protector on the radio (yeah, we should have had one anyway, but live and learn!!) and haven't had any problems since, not even during the latest lightning storms we've had about a week ago.
No connection is 100% guaranteed, fixed wireless or otherwise. I've seen as high as 99.999% reliability but there are times when servers need to be worked on or rebooted, radios need to be power cycled (restarted), etc. But, this will usually happen in the middle of the night when the network is mostly silent (well, at least it's this way with us!).
So, yes, when you send email or upon up your data feeds, the net will be there for you. If you're considering a fixed wireless connection, I can't stress enough the importance of obtaining a site survey from the prospective provider. Any issue will usually pop-up during that survey such as LOS, distance limitations, etc. If you're deemed eligible for service and the provider knows what their doing and utilizes decent equipment and doesn't oversubscribe their backbone, you should definitely get good service with fixed wireless.
HTH! |
|
Anon | Korym, are you using a server to hand out one IP address or DHCP over TCP/IP or are you using a log on password and Microsoft VPN or something? I'm getting ready to put up my first 4.5 mile point to point in a week to play with. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| Ahhh, question of the day, todays. Actually, my sys admin and I were just discussing this last night.
We're currently dishing out two Internet-routable IP's to every subscriber (not a good thing; very expensive!). We're kicking around the idea of deploying one Internet-routable IP to the customer and using a NAT'd IP on the customer's radio that'll transfer the data back and forth to our NAT'd network. We're planning to use a Cisco 2501 to separate the NAT'd network and the Internet IP's. This will reduce attacks and make the network easier to maintain. Plus, it'll cut our Internet IP's in half. Sure, they won't be able to run servers, but that's what our website hosting services are for.
At least, that's what my partner was thinking (I think I said all that right!)... He handles the wired stuff and I keep to the wireless.
Hope that helps, todays! |
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swilliams
join:1999-09-07
Mount Prospect, IL | reply to korym
That's the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks so much for taking the time... |
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newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT | NAT, I'd be careful of NAT. Someone once posted that NAT was
an invitation to hundreds of telephone calls from users using programs
you've never heard of in ways you can't imagine.
We include one IP for every customer. |
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| said by newisp:
NAT, I'd be careful of NAT. Someone once posted that NAT was
an invitation to hundreds of telephone calls from users using programs
you've never heard of in ways you can't imagine.
We include one IP for every customer.
Yep, that's why the customer will get the IP on their desktop or whatever and the radio will get the NAT address. Apparently, my partner can configure the router to pass the IP numbers through the NAT network so that the IP number sitting on the customer side won't have any issues.
I'm not quite sure how it all works out, but it sounded good at the time we talked about it. (He ran a couple of ISP's in Pennsylvania for a few years so I'll take his word for it!)
Ken, don't you have to assign an IP to the radio and to the customer to make the connection work? I'm curious how you're able to use only one IP, unless you're using PCMCIA cards w/ adapters or something and assigning the IP to the customer's machine
Later!
K. |
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