jlrubia
join:2005-08-03 |  WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range
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 sbeasley
join:2005-06-28
Albion, IN
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang Since you are using km, I would assume that you are not from the US or England, and I am not familiar with your nations regulations, but here in the states the unlicenced bandwidth is 900 MHz. It will do exactly what you want, since 2 km is about 1.24 mi. It's what you would want to use. So find out what is unlicenced in your area, and use whatever spectrum is under 1 GHz, and you should be okay. | |
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jlrubia
join:2005-08-03 | Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range Using 2.4 is going to be tough, since it doesn't want to penetrate walls and trees to well. You will do very much better if you use an outside antenna, and have a good line-of-sight to your transmitter location.
An integrated solution such as this is the best way to go. You do not have feed line losses such as those associated with coax cables, and this device can be placed in the optimum location for reception with a long cable to the computer.
Many people on this list use this device and are well-satisfied with its performance and the support that the company gives.
In all fairness, there are other companies out there, but their equipment costs more, and usually cost is consideration. If it is not, then there are other options.
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| robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| I haven't had the opportunity to visit the Philipines. I understand that the tree / foliage is pretty thick with it being a tropical country. Without knowing more, I can't offer advice. How thick is the tree cover. What are the houses built of there (wood, concrete, etc)? | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA | Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang Commercial 700 MHz gear. | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang said by DaDogs  :Commercial 700 MHz gear. I wonder what the license would cost...?
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA | Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang Depends upon the area actually. You know they have auctioned most of it off. One would have to lease the use of the spectrum from the company that holds the lease. | |
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bito
Premium
join:2001-10-08
Atlanta, GA
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang What if you used a high-powered indoor client (cb3, ez1100, etc) inside each customers house to connect back to the AP? No outdoor installs, radio install is easy, and you have a better chance of making your plan happen. Although you are going to be dealing with a RF nightmare. | |
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jlrubia
join:2005-08-03
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| robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX | Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range I really doubt that you will penetrate the trees in the Philipines. I know you won't be penetrating many concrete walls. You really need a good line of site and mounting your equipment outside to eliminate the walls. | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range said by robbin :I really doubt that you will penetrate the trees in the Philipines. I know you won't be penetrating many concrete walls. You really need a good line of site and mounting your equipment outside to eliminate the walls. What Robbin said...
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| These are used in the U.S. to penetrate trees and concrete walls...
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| | GuyS25
join:2003-12-26
England
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range said by John Galt :These are used in the U.S. to penetrate trees and concrete walls... :D:D:D
You just couldn't resist that, could you? | |
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| | | bsamarah
join:2005-08-09
San Jose, CA
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range
Forgive the ignorance, how can these dfferent frequencies work togather.. Can you suggest any equipement types that are needed?
Second low poer APs I am assuming you mean lower frequency, like 900MHz?
Does the lower frequency => less distance ?
I am assuming that a wireless ISP should probably use a 5.8Ghz backhaul. The transmission to a house with line of sigh can be 2.4Ghz but to a building or a covered area would need to be something for the 900MHz range ?
Hope it is not too much and thanks in advance.
Later
bsamarah | |
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| | | | sbeasley
join:2005-06-28
Albion, IN
2 edits | Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang 1. When he says work together I assume that he meant that they can work at the same time without interfering with one another.
2. Low power AP's don't mean less frequency, you can adjust the power to effectively change the range that an AP has.
3. I explained this in another post so this is a copy, and the answer is: It depends on your location.
The 900 MHz spectrum has a larger fresnel zone than 2.4 GHz, and 2.4 GHz has a larger fresnel zone than 5.8 GHz, meaning that to go a greater distance 2.4 GHz would go farther than 900 MHz, and 5.8 GHz would go farther than 2.4 GHz. All this is given the ground is flat and there are no obstructions, and the CPE and AP's are exactly the same height. A large fresnel zone will contact the ground and other obstructions. A lower frequency will contact these obstructions before the higher frequencies will. Now having said that. If there are trees and obstructions, then 900 MHz can "pass" through this type of interference better than 2.4 GHz, and 2.4 GHz can "pass through this type of interference better than 2.4 GHz. So to answer your question. It depends, but I hope this gives you a better understanding of what spectrum you will want to use. Typically 2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are you LOS solutions, and 900 MHz is your NLOS solution. | |
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| | | | | bsamarah
join:2005-08-09
San Jose, CA
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang
This is great information, I am really thakfull. So how can you connect all these frequencies togather? Do you need a specific device of some sort ? I mean if, I use a 900MHz signal to connect a sight but my backhaul is 5.8Ghz or 2.4Ghz then I would need a mediume in between right ? If so what is it? Where can I find it?
Later..
Basem. | |
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| | | | | | sbeasley
join:2005-06-28
Albion, IN
1 edit | Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang I'm believe that you would need a couple ethernet cables and a bridge of some sort. I've personally not done this, so don't take my word for it. | |
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jlrubia
join:2005-08-03 | are there any trees and walls penetrating antenna in the market today? | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range said by jlrubia :are there any trees and walls penetrating antenna in the market today? Not in the 2.4 band, generally speaking. If you can get outside of the walls, you have a chance. If not, well, the game is over.
You must mount outside...with clear line-of-sight. There are some OFDM products that handle the trees better, but they are more expensive than standard 802.11a/b/g gear.
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| robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| It really doesn't have anything to do with the antenna. It is the physics behind the propagation of the radio frequency. 2.4 does not penetrate very well at a distance. It's great inside a house to go through the walls from room to room, but you can't send it a half mile through a tree or two and then through a wood wall (much less a concrete one). | |
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Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
Arnprior On.
| In addition to what Robbin said - there _are_ companies that _claim_ to be able to do this.... so far I have yet to hear from someone (that wasn't on the sales team) that can actually says that they have used one of these magic antennas to do that. Let alone SHOW me that same thing in action... but I know of alot that CLAIM they can 
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bsamarah
join:2005-08-09
San Jose, CA
| Hello all..
I am a little confused. How come there is no solution that can penetrate walls. How do you connect conference rooms or an entire building? If the building has 2 apt per floor it is going to extremely difficult to connect the entire building to a line of sight. Is the Lucent ORENCO product not a solution? How about 5.8 GHz can those be used to extend the range?
One more question.. Can all these different frequencies work togather 5.8Ghz with 2.4Ghz with 900MHz? Appreciate all your help in advance.
Thanks | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range said by bsamarah :How come there is no solution that can penetrate walls. Penetration is frequency dependent. The higher the frequency, the less the penetration. Conversely, the lower the frequency, the greater the penetration.
It is better to install more low power AP's in buildings than fewer high power AP's.
One more question.. Can all these different frequencies work together 5.8Ghz with 2.4Ghz with 900MHz? The short answer is yes.
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anoclon
join:2004-10-12
Guatemala | in 2.4Ghz, even with a 2 watt amplifier added to a 15dB omni you won't penetrate trees or walls in a radio bigger than a couple of blocks. But with line of sight on both ends, 2 kilometers it's really easy. That's my experience. | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang said by jlrubia :i think i already have the answer to this problem. there is already an obstruction penetrating antenna in the market. kindly please ckeck this link and please give comment if this will solve the trees and concrete walls penetration problem with in 1 to 2 km range. » www.wifi-plus.com/pages/2/index.htm and also read the forum link. » www.wifi-plus.shoppingcartsplus.···7784.htm No it will not solve the problem. If there was a magic bullet, we would already be using it.
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| jober
join:2001-12-13
| said by jlrubia :i think i already have the answer to this problem. there is already an obstruction penetrating antenna in the market. kindly please ckeck this link and please give comment if this will solve the trees and concrete walls penetration problem with in 1 to 2 km range. » www.wifi-plus.com/pages/2/index.htm and also read the forum link. » www.wifi-plus.shoppingcartsplus.···7784.htm It's sickening the price they charge for those antennas. And if you buy them and then open them up you will see what I mean. | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by jlrubia :i think i already have the answer to this problem. there is already an obstruction penetrating antenna in the market. kindly please ckeck this link and please give comment if this will solve the trees and concrete walls penetration problem with in 1 to 2 km range. » www.wifi-plus.com/pages/2/index.htm and also read the forum link. » www.wifi-plus.shoppingcartsplus.···7784.htm Those antennas are worthless, and some have gotten better performance out of good old cheap Superpass antenna.:)
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jlrubia
join:2005-08-03 | but wi-fi plus claimed that thier antenna will penetrate trees and concrete walls. what they have claimed are untrue? please give me proof if you have experienced this wi-fi plus antenna and fialed to accomplish your goal. | |
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| DejanCDN
join:2004-11-17
Kuwait
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang OK..let me try a stab at this. Physics of radio propagation don't change for ANY manufacturer. 2.4GHz signal will not go through trees. What Wi-Fi Plus claims is that they can boost what little signal does come through trees and make use of it. Reality is (do a Search on this board), that people's experience with their antennas does not back up their claims. Considering the physics, it is unlikely that someone will be able to come up with something that does work.
Antennas do not penetrate anything by the way - they pick up signals (if any are present) and amplify them.
Re. how you make use of 900MHz, 2.l4Ghz, 5.8GHz etc in the same network and how you interconnect them, well, that is easy if you draw it. Each device has an Ethernet Port. How do you connect multiple devices with Ethernet ports? With an Ethernet Switch or a Hub. This has nothing to do with which frequency they operate at. On local area network level, all this equipment is a bunch of boxes with Ethernet ports, so treat them that way. | |
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| | bsamarah
join:2005-08-09
San Jose, CA
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang
Thanks
Basem. | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang said by bsamarah :Agreed.. I realized what a stupid question it was after the post, but I figured it does not hurt to hear another opinion. Thanks Basem. There is no such thing as as a stupid question:D
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| | | | Seaboogers
join:2004-11-01
Sarasota, FL
| Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang said by superdog :said by bsamarah :Agreed.. I realized what a stupid question it was after the post, but I figured it does not hurt to hear another opinion. Thanks Basem. There is no such thing as as a stupid question:D Actually there is such thing as a "stupid" question it's called:
The UNASKED question!!! | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by DejanCDN :OK..let me try a stab at this. Physics of radio propagation don't change for ANY manufacturer. 2.4GHz signal will not go through trees. What Wi-Fi Plus claims is that they can boost what little signal does come through trees and make use of it. Reality is (do a Search on this board), that people's experience with their antennas does not back up their claims. My point exactly!. Over the years, I have been BS'ed by so many sales reps., and have bought and then promptly sold on ebay, way to many pieces of gear. The long and short of this is just what DejanCDN said, "Physics of radio propagation don't change for ANY manufacturer". Unless they have God on their engineering staff, nothing new is going to happen in this dept.:D
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ike20004
join:2004-08-11
Bowie, MD | If you can shell-out the dough, then Navini and like proprietary systems can do it. $300,000.00 for a start!
»www.navini.com | |
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