PuZo10
@cable.rogers
| [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright I got an e-mail saying my IP has been infringing copyright laws. They said they have the right to take legal action. They said to not reply to the email, but to reply to some guy from »www.visualware.com/
Did anyone else get something like this? Ever since the cap I have slowed down downloading dramatically. Could it be from uploading P2P? They didnt say exactly what it was for, I emailed the guy form the site but he hasnt replied. | |
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 alexpb1
join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright so did the email come from an @rogers.com address or what? | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright sounds fishy | |
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PuZo10
@cable.rogers | Yes, it came form abuse@rogers.com
But it says not to reply there, it says to reply to someone with the e-mail ending with @visualware.com | |
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| cc86
join:2004-02-24
Waterloo, ON
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright said by PuZo10 :
Yes, it came form abuse@rogers.com
But it says not to reply there, it says to reply to someone with the e-mail ending with @visualware.com
Looks fishy to me. Rogers email addy for abuse is abuse@rci.rogers.com | |
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PuZo10
@cable.rogers | well I checked the site out. It seems like it coudl be a company helping rogers? I dont know, if i dotn hear a response from him, then ill just have to e-mail rogers and ask if it was sent from them | |
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| puzz1ed
join:2005-02-20
Markham, ON
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright VisualWare is a software vendor. Among other things, they make the "myspeed.rogers.com" speedtest.
Apparently, they have contacted Rogers because they found your IP address "sharing" their software. Since they don't know who you are, their first recourse is to notify the ISP (Rogers) that owns your IP address. Rogers, to my knowledge, doesn't generally forward customer details when they receive such notices but will in general notify the customer in question. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | The usual recommendation is to make sure you steer clear of nay products that visualware might sell. | |
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PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada
| same person(remembered pass)
I dont think it is. They tell me about the EUA and AUP. I highly doubt it would be fake.
But this whole thing is confusing
this is how it ends off:
Sincerely,
EUA Management Team
Rogers Yahoo Hi-Speed Internet
»na.edit.client.yahoo.com/rogers/···rm=terms
00233572
pect a reply, send a plain text email to *******@visualware.com]
thats word for word, dont knwo what the "pect" came from. It seems legit and I dont want to risk it | |
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2kmaro
Think
Premium,ExMod 1 BC
join:2000-07-11
ColossalCave
clubs:  
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright Some observations/questions:
First, there is a trial version of VisualRoute available for download and a 15-day use. No cost. So why there would even need to be a crack applied is kind of beyond me. You download the trial, you determine if you like it or not, and then you either buy it or you don't and unload it.
Second, I'd just send Rogers an email directly (not in reply to original) asking "Did you send this to me?" - actually, forwarding it would be better and see what the say?
Third - as someone else mentioned, the built-in Windows XP firewall will not stop any call home type activity by any program on your computer, including outright viruses and worms. It only guards against stuff gaining unauthorized entrance. But if a program starts a comm session from inside your computer, that firewall does not alert you to it and it then allows all replies to that session in through the firewall. There are any number of firewalls that will prevent that type of thing such as ZoneAlarm, Norton Personal Firewall, Kerio, Tiny, etc. I know that ZoneAlarm has a free for personal use version available simply for the asking.
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...then THINK! again!! | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
1 edit | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright I agree on the matter of the cracks .. most Visual... Software has a demo/trial version.
Knowing Rogers, it's pointless contacting them. Their organisation is a maze of twistly little passages all alike. So there's no guarantee that any attempt to contact them will end up with someone who has a clue. | |
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Marshal
Premium
join:2003-11-01
Montreal | look the header, and look the ip where does it come from ?
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Vidéotron - Download @ 6.5mbits - Upload @ 900 kbits | |
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PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada
1 edit | eMailTrackerPro
thats the only thing I tried, Jun 22 2005. I used a crack for it just to test it. So how should I approach rogers with this? I mean I want to keep downlaidng if I can, but since they said they haev teh right to take legal action, I dont knwo what to do. | |
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| Cableguy4116
join:2005-09-01
Brampton, ON
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright Just another thought...Instead of a file sharing issue, the program may have "called home" to their servers and logged your IP address along with the "cracked" serial number etc., indicating a copyright infringement. The intern contacted Rogers to advise of your improper use of the program. | |
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Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
1 edit | Hard to say if this is legit without seeing it -- why don't you check the full email header and see if the originating IP tells you anything. But if this is a scam I can't see what the point of it was.
Rogers is in fact sending emails like this, so this may (or may not) be legit. There was a long and active discussion about this issue in this thread
Assuming this is legit: Rogers cannot give your subscriber info to anyone without a court order, so they use this type of notification to alert you that a copyright infringement notice has been sent to them. Under new legislation that I don't think has been passed yet, an ISP will be legally required to forward such notices. There is nothing you need to do except possibly stop downloading pirated material. It's a bad idea to contact the copyright holder as all you achieve is revealing your identity to them, but if you've already done so don't sweat it. Read the above thread for lots more information.
Edit: It occurs to me that legit emails like this will always include your IP address, what you downloaded, and the date and time and network facility that you downloaded it from. This would be a pretty good indicator that it's legit. | |
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magnus2
join:2004-05-23
Ottawa, ON
| I got the same email a few weeks ago after having tried Visualware's VisualRoute with a crack to get it to run.
It dropped in less than 2 hrs after me running it, so it doesn't seem like a conincidence to me, rather that the program is actually calling home. | |
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primal98
join:2004-08-27
| Yes, it must be calling home. Many not as popular companies(first time I heard of these guys) use call home functions.... usually it is a scare tactic, but if they work with rogers than I am not surprised..... though this is a first, I mean you aren't downloading/uploading anything so WTF :P Probably was a bad crack, and didnt stop the call home. General rule of thumb is to block the prog from accessing the net(firewall and such)... but if, like here, it needs the net for email or sumtin.... then stay clear of it :P Let us know how it goes  I wouldnt sweat it too much.... maybe call rogers? I mean a typo... and they want u to contact those guys... strange.
~prime | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright They aren't "working with Rogers". Visualware are simply protecting their rights albeit apparently with a "call home" mechanism.
It's not as if the visualware products are particularly expensive either - but why use cracks when they have demos.
So, they identify Rogers and Rogers notify you they received a complaint about your unauthorized use of software. That's it ... That's Rogers involvement. That's why Rogers tell you to contact visualware and not them. They just acted as a relay.
Now, you have a choice .... you can ignore it (which if you've stopped using the product you may get away with) or you can contact visualware and face the music. Your choice. Of course visualware are an American company so it's difficult to sue you. BUT they can sue you in a US court, which can get a default judgement if you don't appear ... and then depending on the terms you may find yourself with an arrest warrant against you which if you're ever pulled by the cops in the US could get interesting.
So the choice is your. | |
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darrylr
join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON | If you are worried about software "calling home" just setup the Windows XP2 firewall or use Zone Alarm. You would be suprised which programs do this and at which times.
-Darryl | |
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Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
1 edit | The "call home" mechanism is definitely used more than people might suspect (I should have thought of that earlier ) It lets a company track where and when their software is installed and can be used for various purposes, anti-piracy being just one.
I must say that this practice bothers me. I don't condone piracy, but software designed to do this calls home whether it's legit or not, and you have no idea or control over what information is being sent back. For instance it could send back anything from your registry, which contains loads of information about your software, computer usage, and even personal identifying information in many cases.
IMO, it's the software equivalent of buying a toaster that turns out to have a hidden microphone and transmitter in it. It violates the spirit of our privacy laws and IMHO should not be legal!
P.S.- Darryl is right - a properly configured firewall can put a stop to this! I didn't think the XP standard firewall could block outgoing connections in either SP1 or SP2, though -- you would need something like Zone Alarm or Sygate PF. | |
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| puzz1ed
join:2005-02-20
Markham, ON
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright VisualRoute intrinsically needs to access the Internet so blocking Net access would be problematic. Also, it's a Java app so unless you want to block all Java apps from accessing the Net it'll be even harder.
I agree with you on this "call home" stuff. Who know what info is being sent. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright Puzzled ... Most of the visual products do access the net , but they do so on standard ports. What you need to block is the Non-standard ports which are usually used for "call home". | |
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PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada
2 edits | I dont use the program, so like I said it was onyl installed for 5 minutes. My problem is how do I treat the situation? Can I keep downloading normla stuff, Ie torrents, like games and movies, or does this mean they are watching me adn watchign what I am downloading.
This is my full e-mail that I got:
Dear (My name)
Rogers Cable (Rogers) has received a notice stating
that activities
associated with your IP address are infringing
copyright in material(s)
owned or exclusively licensed by others.
The relevant portions of the notice are appended to
this e-mail.
Under the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet End User
Agreement (EUA) and
Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), you are prohibited from
using the Rogers
Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service to engage in illegal
activities,
including activities that infringe copyright. Copies
of our EUA and AUP are
available at:
»help.yahoo.com/rogers
Where there has been a violation of our EUA and/or
AUP, including the
unauthorized distribution of copyright-protected
material, Rogers has
the right to take appropriate action against you.
If you have any questions about the attached copyright
notice, please
contact the sender of the notice using the contact
information provided
in the notice. Please do not reply to this e-mail.
We trust you will comply with our policies and all
applicable laws in
using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service.
Sincerely,
EUA Management Team
Rogers Yahoo Hi-Speed Internet
»na.edit.client.yahoo.com/rogers/···rm=terms
00233572
pect a reply, send a plain text email to
*****.*****@visualware.com]
-=-=--=-=-
Thats it, no IP, nothing. My greatest fear is, is Rogers gonna be watching me now? Or how serious is this. SHoudl I email the guy and what shoudl I say?
This is what I had in mind:
Hello. I would just like to understand clearly so there wont be anymore interuptions in the future. Could you explain to me the problem, and I would gladly do my best to fix this issue. Thank you for your time in reading my e-mail. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright I doubt that Rogers will be "watching you" in as much as they won't be checking your activities themselves, but they might do something if they get another.
Since the notice is such junk, I'd do nothing. Hold onto the mail and leave it at that. If they come after you again, then ask them what you were supposed to do with that.
Where did you download that Visual product from? Since they have demos on their own site, it's kind of strange, unless they are holding cracks on their own site and nabbing people who go after the cracks. Which one might call entrapment. | |
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pulp39
Premium
join:2003-01-28
Ottawa, ON
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright LOL sbrook, there are cracks for every known program in the universe over the web, torrents, Sharaza, Usenet, Mirc, etc...
He, obviously needed the crack after the free trial or wanted the greater functionality...
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"Rogers needs to buy the CN Tower and call it Rogers Tower. This way, TED can shoot laser beams out his ass to our modems when we go over 100 Gigs." - MoeB -LMFFAO!!! | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright Well, he said he didn't use the program at all so we have to take him at his word.
Since visual distribute their programs far and wide, and going from demo to real is a matter of the key, then they must have seeded the crack. | |
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| | | | PiedPiper1
join:2005-11-12 | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright hello all for torrent problems try port 720 i work for rogers see if this helps at all. | |
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| | | | | Yatti4209
join:2006-02-02
Waterloo, ON | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright Dont reply to that email, I think piedpiper meant 1720. | |
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Tyreman
join:2002-10-08 | Maybe e-mail a mistake and meant for "someone" else.:D | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright i'd ignore it aand avoid their crappy software they been doing this for 5 years now | |
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PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada | So say I do keep downloading, would I get another warnign say from Rogers? Or would they, if they would just send me a lawsuit out of the blue? | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright Again, it's almost nothing to do with Rogers.
Visualware sent a complaint to Rogers based on your downloading something from somewhere with your IP address. Rogers looked in their logs and saw the user with that IP address at the time was you. So, they forwarded the complaint to you.
All Rogers does is forward the message. BUT if you persist in downloading stuff that you aren't entitled to, then you risk another warning. I don't know how many warnings Rogers will forward until they disconnect you ... but it's probably a 3 strike and you're gone. Rogers won't take part in any lawsuit from Visualware for example, other than give over your name on a court order.
It really is up to you whether you want to carry on. | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright its actually any 3 warnings and your out in your lifetime after a years suspection it gets reset | |
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Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
| Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright said by Angelo_  :its actually any 3 warnings and your out in your lifetime after a years suspection it gets reset That's the stated policy for going over the bandwidth cap. Are you sure this is how it works with copyright notices? I've never seen any statement on this from Rogers. | |
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PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada | So if I do continue, download muhc less and stay away from visualware(liek I already am) I should be okay
And just out of curiosuity, if they do give my naem for teh court order, what would happen? Would i be sued?*this is just a big if | |
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Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
| Thanks for posting the complete email.
It looks like this was not related to tracing any download or upload activity, but indeed a "call-home" scenario. I base this on the fact that there is no download information given which is always the case when a trace has been done -- filename, date, time, download facility, etc.
In other words Visualware has no idea how you got their product, only that the thing called home and it looked like you appeared to be trying to run it illegally.
With the important caveat that I am not a lawyer and am just offering my opinion, the notice from Visualware carries the same legal weight as the contents of your cat's litterbox. There is no date, time, product info, nothing. Basically they sent Rogers an email saying you have been very bad and you should contact them 
Unfortunately what you need to worry about is the relationship with Rogers. As sbrook says we don't know how many of these infrigement notices they tolerate before they cut you off, but eventually they do. And the fact that the "evidence" is all B.S. is irrelevant, they can still cut you off and you really have no recourse. | |
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PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada | I Honestly couldnt care less if they cut me off. Just as long as I dont get a lawsuit. Has anyone ever heard of ROgers beign part of a lawsuit due to downlaidng in anyway? | |
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Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
| Rogers wouldn't be "part" of any lawsuit, they're just the ISP -- a third party.
To the best of my knowledge no one in Canada has yet been sued for simple downloading of music, movies, or software, but that could always change. Rogers is not involved in any way except that they have liability if they don't respond to these kinds of notices, hence the possibility that with further infringements they could cut you off.
Bottom line: as things stand, I wouldn't worry about it. To be safe I just wouldn't press my luck any further | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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KyeU
join:2003-12-31
Canada
| PuZo, I've read the email over, and here's my findings:
-it is certainly a valid email
-does not provide extensive proof that YOU violated the copyright law
-does not give you a definite action to take, just tells you to contact the person at the visualware.com address...
It's not serious, but at the same time, it's not just a warning  | |
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w1zard
join:2001-12-22
Paradise, PA
| Call me paranoid, but you have to be out of your mind, Puzo. You honestly have to ask if you should stop dling warez for a while? Chances are you will never hear anything else about that email, but is it a chance you are willing to take? I do believe I would at the very least make sure my pc and home was clean of any warez for a couple of months, and see what, if anything, develops from that email. | |
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