Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | reply to Wolfie00
Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright
if he contacts a lawyer now and does nothing on on record and won't be used against him... |
|
joekuz
join:2003-03-13
Calistoga, CA
| I had received the same email as you about a year and a half ago when I had Dsl. Visualware are sticklers, instead of just giving a invalid serial # error like most programs do, they go the extra step and file complaint to your isp. My advice, just uninstall the software and never use it again!..and u shouldn't have any problems.  |
|
pulp39
Premium
join:2003-01-28
Ottawa, ON
4 edits | reply to PuZo10
This is weird. When I was a *key* man for a ++ Hub years ago, I used VisualRoute with a cracked pass for seeing where certain IP's came from. I liked seeing the path in 2 D on the map, LOL. Anyways, Ted never bothered to email me. Maybe because it was a loooong time ago and the software didn't call home back then? Or perhaps... Ted has a laundry list of crap on me and is just itching to thrown down the gauntlet once all the evidence is compiled!
--
"Rogers needs to buy the CN Tower and call it Rogers Tower. This way, TED can shoot laser beams out his ass to our modems when we go over 100 Gigs." - MoeB -
LMFFAO!!! |
|
shans001
join:2000-08-13
Chesapeake, VA |  reply to PuZo6
These posts could be subpoenaed so careful what you admit to or reveal here. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | reply to jagged
tyukc ... Visualware is a US company. The recipient is in Canada. There is not enough info in the letter to "follow instructions" ...
Contacting the EFF is pretty pointless at this stage. |
|
keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| reply to jagged
On the technical end of things, I wonder if the cracked copy of software came with something else, perhaps some malware that is causing the packets. Or maybe it didn't uninstall properly?
On the legal end of things, I'm not a lawyer, but I have taken a couple of courses in Canadian civil law for the common law provinces (i.e. not Quebec).
Up here in Canada, things like the Digital Millenium Copyright Act don't apply, the DMCR being a US law, and Canada being a different country.
In Canada, we pretty much rely on the politeness, morals and ethics of our citizens and visitors to limit petty crime. It works okay for us.
Looking at the post of the email notice, this is what he is being asked to do:
quote:
We trust you will comply with our policies and all
applicable laws in
using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service.
In other words his ISP is politely telling him, if you want to remain our customer don't do that again.
If he gets the proper notice of a lawsuit being filed in a court (as opposed a cautionary letter like this or a threat Visualware to launch a lawsuit), then he should certainly contact a lawyer.
Canadian law isn't big on punitive damages, so while you can sue for any amount you can imagine, the damages a court is likely to award are pretty much limited to the damages he actually caused the plaintiff, plus court costs. If he didn't distribute the cracked software, the damages are the cost of one copy of the software. Pursuing a suit like this would likely incur other costs to Visualware that couldn't be recovered, so they would loose money on the suit.
So long as the pirated software is uninstalled, I think this is case closed.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Thank you Keith for that rationalization ...
We do indeed tend to work on the "spirit of the law" as opposed to the "letter of the law" which is what permits the Americans to be so litigious. The spirit of the law is basically the concept of "What the law is trying to achieve"
In this case, were Canadian copyright law applied, then the spirit of the law is as Keith indicates is to recover actual damages. The only place that punishment may be involved would be for the software vendor to seek Criminal charges (in this case for petty theft). That's unlikely to happen since the courts have bigger fish to fry. The cost of such a case is ridiculously high for the damages.
There are two options ... purchase the product to be a legal user, or totally uninstall the product (even remove the download crack and original distribution).
It seems likely that the "installer" probably called home if he didn't run it.
It is also possible that the crack was a trap (which would make for an interesting argument were it ever to arrive in court!) |
|
ottawa_guy
join:2005-06-03
Ottawa, ON | One thing. All rogers corporate e-mail comes from XXX@rci.rogers.com. Rogers corporate does not use rogers.com e-mail addresses. It sounds like a spam e-mail. |
|
jrsmooth
join:2000-05-17
Washington, DC | reply to PuZo10
If you can post the full email header, I can tell you if it is fake or not. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | reply to ottawa_guy
Without seeing the full headers, it's impossible to say. |
|
2kmaro
Think
Premium,ExMod 1 BC
join:2000-07-11
ColossalCave
clubs:  
| reply to PuZo6
Some observations/questions:
First, there is a trial version of VisualRoute available for download and a 15-day use. No cost. So why there would even need to be a crack applied is kind of beyond me. You download the trial, you determine if you like it or not, and then you either buy it or you don't and unload it.
Second, I'd just send Rogers an email directly (not in reply to original) asking "Did you send this to me?" - actually, forwarding it would be better and see what the say?
Third - as someone else mentioned, the built-in Windows XP firewall will not stop any call home type activity by any program on your computer, including outright viruses and worms. It only guards against stuff gaining unauthorized entrance. But if a program starts a comm session from inside your computer, that firewall does not alert you to it and it then allows all replies to that session in through the firewall. There are any number of firewalls that will prevent that type of thing such as ZoneAlarm, Norton Personal Firewall, Kerio, Tiny, etc. I know that ZoneAlarm has a free for personal use version available simply for the asking.
--
...then THINK! again!! |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
1 edit | I agree on the matter of the cracks .. most Visual... Software has a demo/trial version.
Knowing Rogers, it's pointless contacting them. Their organisation is a maze of twistly little passages all alike. So there's no guarantee that any attempt to contact them will end up with someone who has a clue. |
|
WickedWinter
join:2003-08-02
USA
| reply to PuZo10
Here is an example of what they log/send home:
ip address: 128.138.39.XX [strnXX-XX-dhcp.resnet.colorado.edu]
proxy info: for=192.168.2.187|via=1.0 whale:3128 (squid/2.5.STABLE1)
date/time: 2002/10/08 22:27:19 EST
ethernet mac: 00E018190757
user name: Sutha XXXXXuphong
computer name: blueXXXXX
license key: NONE - CRACKED VERSION
product: VisualRoute (build 1819)
found here:
»www.visualware.com/company/cracked.html |
|
jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to PuZo10
don't use their software unless you are doing so legally. if the letter was unregistered, and they have no idea if you've received it or not, then throw it away and quit using their software.
if you must, keep downloading, but don't use their software.
don't use their software.
am i being clear?
in any event, rogers might have you on their radar now. even if you don't get nailed by the riaa or mpaa directly, they might send you another letter saying that you've been downloading things that are against your terms of service, and that might be your second warning, or your final one. your choice on how risky it is to continue. |
|
PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada
| reply to PuZo10
IM definetly sure it came from Rogers because I did *use* that program. Would it make any difference If i e-mailed the guy and told him I would buy a license for that program? Maybe even tell him if he coudl retract his statement to my isp or something? |
|
Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
| PuZo, to answer your two questions, No and No
There's good advice in this thread. To summarize, the best thing to do is uninstall the stupid thing if you haven't done so already, and then forget the whole thing. Don't use any of their software again unless you buy it.
Do not email them as that is pointless. They don't know who you are, they can't find out who you are because in Canada Rogers cannot release personal information without a court order, and as someone pointed out there is no way it would be worth their while to pursue a court order. That's the end of that part of the story.
As for Rogers "retracting" your status as having been notified of a copyright infringement, look back at sbrook's comment about Rogers being a maze of twisty little passages all alike, which quote also contains the key word "clueless". You will never get anywhere with them. That's the end of the other part of the story. |
|
PuZo6
join:2005-03-28
Canada | reply to PuZo10
Okay, I guess my last question is, now that Rogers knows that I was doing somethign wrong. Is there any chance that they wil be monitoring me more carefully or something along the lines of that? |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| No ... that's unlikely ... Rogers have too much on their plates to go looking for problems (their abuse desk is a disaster) ... but they are likely to keep this on your file and may do more than just warn you if they receive another complaint like that. |
|
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to PuZo10
said by PuZo10 :I got an e-mail saying my IP has been infringing copyright laws. They said they have the right to take legal action. They said to not reply to the email, but to reply to some guy from » www.visualware.com/Did anyone else get something like this? Ever since the cap I have slowed down downloading dramatically. Could it be from uploading P2P? They didnt say exactly what it was for, I emailed the guy form the site but he hasnt replied. Did you ever stop to ask yourself how they would have gotten your email address if it's a hacked version? Did you register it? Did you enter your email address in the program somewhere?? Something's funny here anyway unless Rogers gave out your email address to them. Just my thought. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Nobody gave Visual his email address.
Visual looked at the IP address of the "call home" and did an rDNS lookup and said "Rogers.com" which says report cases of abuse to abuse@rci.rogers.com ... which they did.
Rogers looked at their IP logs and determined who it was ... and basically forwarded Visual's message and added their "don't do illegal stuff per our EUA" to it the poster.
Visual still don't know who it was and never will unless they can get a Canadian court order.
Rogers, on the other hand, may simply terminate him if he goes and does something illegal again. |
|
