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thuggin_nigga
@csp-wy.client.bresna

thuggin_nigga

Anon

port forwarding vs. port triggering?

hey whats the difference between port triggering and port forwarding? In my router, they both explain that it can be used for games, which is what I need, but what's the diff? Which one should I use?

Also, is port forwarding the same as virtual server?

shdesigns
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Stone Mountain, GA
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ARRIS SB6121

shdesigns

Premium Member

port forwaring just forwards one port.

Port triggering watches one port to detect when a PC will open a related port.

An example is FTP. FTP will use one port to set thing up, then another to do the data transfer. The trigger will watch the control port, see that a port is being set up on port "nnnn" then outomatically forward port "nnnn' to the PC.

thuggin_nigga
@csp-wy.client.bresna

thuggin_nigga to thuggin_nigga

Anon

to thuggin_nigga
aight

so if my game says to open certain ports, should i just forward them or trigger them? what do you think is best and most secure?

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

Anav to thuggin_nigga

Premium Member

to thuggin_nigga
Hmm, Your clue is the location of that bizarre creature.
Stoned mountain is more like it.

FTP has nothing to do with port triggering and everything to do with a statically forwarded port. Its the algorithm in the router that handles the random upper level ports that are used by the server software. Initial negotiation is done by a user outside on the WAN who can access the server because port 21 is forwarded (an open door if you will). Then the software authenticates the user (name/password, however you have set it up) and then starts to manage the request, which means opening up data ports for the actual transfer, the router handles all of this properly so that the outgoing is sent to the originator etc....)

Port triggering is different in that its designed to allow dynamic port forwarding An outgoing request by a user ON THE LAN, tells the router (by means of the port being used on the outgoing request) to open or forward a port or range of ports for a limited period of time, so that incoming traffic on different ports (those opened) can get through the router NAT and to the sender.

In order to use the same service on a different LAN computer, you have to manually replace the LAN computer's IP address in the forwarding port with another LAN computer's IP address.

Trigger port forwarding solves this problem by allowing computers on the LAN to dynamically take turns using the service. The router records the IP address of a LAN computer that sends traffic to the WAN to request a service with a specific port number and protocol (a "trigger" port). When the router's WAN port receives a response with a specific port number and protocol ("incoming" port or port range as designated by the end user), the router forwards the traffic to the LAN IP address of the computer that sent the request. After that computer's connection for that service closes, another computer on the LAN can use the service in the same manner. This way you do not need to configure a new IP address each time you want a different LAN computer to use the application.

For example:

Jane requests a file from the Real Audio server (port 7070).

Port 7070 is a "trigger" port and causes the router to record Jane's computer IP address.
The router associates Jane's computer IP address with the "incoming" port range of 6970-7170 because that what has been set up in the port triggering menu!!

The Real Audio server responds to Janes request and uses the expected port or ports ranging between 6970-7170.
The ZyWALL forwards the traffic to Jane's computer IP address.
Only Jane can connect to the Real Audio server until the connection is closed or times out. The router times out depending on the brand in use, both UDP and TCP. Should be configurable or at least known.

shdesigns
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shdesigns

Premium Member

[QUOTE}Hmm, Your clue is the location of that bizarre creature.
Stoned mountain is more like it.

FTP has nothing to do with port triggering and everything to do with a statically forwarded port. Its the algorithm in the router that handles the random upper level ports that are used by the server software. Initial negotiation is done by a user outside on the WAN who can access the server because port 21 is forwarded (an open door if you will). Then the software authenticates the user (name/password, however you have set it up) and then starts to manage the request, which means opening up data ports for the actual transfer, the router handles all of this properly so that the outgoing is sent to the originator etc....)

Gee, the router watches the control port for FTP, looks for the data transfer command (PORT,,,,,), and opens the data port. That IS port triggering.

I just did not want to give the boring details.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

2 edits

Anav

Premium Member

You continue to wish to confuse yourself thats your business, but please do not try and confuse those trying to learn what the ROUTER functions of Port Forwarding, and Port triggering consist of.

Port forwarding (static) is the process of opening a door in the router, by the user, so that an outside person/entity can access a PC or server behind the router.
The door is always open and requires no action by the users on the LAN.

Port triggering is based on an OUTGOING request by a user on the LAN. It allows dynamic port forwarding to temporarily occur, so that the user can access services (REAL AUDIO) or gaming etc..... It assists the users behind the PC. A method of sharing a port or port forwarding range.

FTP algorithm is port negotiation between the FTP software and the router. Initial communication is done by an outside (WAN side) PC/user, using the open door/port 21. A standard port forwarding case.
The FTP program then selects random ports and communicates that with the WAN side user. The router firmware detects which ports are being used and ensures that traffic from the WAN user reaches the FTP server, on the high numbered ports.
This traffic is normally uploading by the WAN User and thus the ports need to be open so that the return packets (Ack) which communicate progress of the upload can reach the FTP server. The other traffic would be in the case of downloading data to the server by the WAN side user.

It is not triggering of a set range of identified ports, its a negotiation of randomly assigned ports between the router and FTP software.

NoPortTriggering

Anon

quote:
Port triggering is based on an OUTGOING request by a user on the LAN. It allows dynamic port forwarding to temporarily occur, so that the user can access services (REAL AUDIO) or gaming etc..... It assists the users behind the PC. A method of sharing a port or port forwarding range.
Sounds like an SPI firewall to me. I've never heard it called port triggering. As far as I've seen port triggering is a marketing term (like DMZ on consumer routers) designed to sell more of the marketer's brand of router.

shdesigns
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shdesigns to Anav

Premium Member

to Anav
said by Anav:

You continue to wish to confuse yourself thats your business, but please do not try and confuse those trying to learn what the ROUTER functions of Port Forwarding, and Port triggering consist of.

Port forwarding (static) is the process of opening a door in the router, by the user, so that an outside person/entity can access a PC or server behind the router.
The door is always open and requires no action by the users on the LAN.

Port triggering is based on an OUTGOING request by a user on the LAN. It allows dynamic port forwarding to temporarily occur, so that the user can access services (REAL AUDIO) or gaming etc..... It assists the users behind the PC. A method of sharing a port or port forwarding range.
And you seem to think I said FTP was doing triggering. It has always been said the router watches the FTP control port (outgoing if you want to get specific) and opens an incoming port based on the PORT,,,,,command.
It is not triggering of a set range of identified ports, its a negotiation of randomly assigned ports between the router and FTP software.

Yes, that is what I said. Funny how my router uses FTP as the example of port triggering.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Dartmouth, NS

Anav to thuggin_nigga

Premium Member

to thuggin_nigga
There is a trigger on a gun, the shooter waits for a target and then pulls the trigger and fires the gun, this is analagous to your example and just as relevant as your initial misuse of the word trigger in attempting to define the feature Port Triggering on routers, this continual backtracking and swiss cheese defending of an untenable position is a waste of time and posting space.

garethsk
Premium Member
join:2002-08-11
Knoxville, TN

garethsk to thuggin_nigga

Premium Member

to thuggin_nigga
Perhaps each of you should just clarify where the FTP Server is?

Sounds to me like in shdesigns See Profile example, he is connecting from his LAN to an FTP on the WAN side, which means triggering is being used.

Where as Anav See Profile is talking about the ftp server being on the LAN side, and someone from the WAN side connecting to it, in which case forwarding is being used to route the incoming port 21 connection to the server inside the LAN.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Dartmouth, NS

Anav to thuggin_nigga

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to thuggin_nigga
It matters little Gskeleton. It is not germane to the original question. The original poster was asking about features on his router. The only reason FTP came into the picture was erroneous information and poor example submitted by Mr Improbable!

I was specifically talking about an FTP server behind ones router.

shdesigns
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shdesigns

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Ok, I'll concede it is a poor sample.

Active mode FTP requires more than port triggering (passive can use port forwarding).

Typical, the definitins change. When I implemetnted an ftp server behind a linux router, it was referred to as port triggering. SOHO routers came along and implemented a simple form of port triggering that is differnt.

Active mode FTP "triggering" is now referred to as Connection Tracking and SPI. Something few SOHO routers support.

Sorry for the confusion.

Anav
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Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

2 edits

Anav

Premium Member

Hey shdesigns, I didn't know port triggering was a term already used by another OS, for port management(a generic term that we can probably agree to use LOL)- thanks for the info. I guess we can all learn something new. Damn penguin plague, theyre all over the place!