John2g
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join:2001-08-10
England
| Symantec complains to EU over Microsoft
Symantec complains to EU anti-trust officers over Microsoft
»www.techworld.com/security/news/···5&inkc=0
Symantec has made a complaint against Microsoft to EC anti-trust regulators over the software giant's entry into the security market.
The "informal" complaint allows the Commission to consider whether or not an anti-trust case is merited. The Commission is the executive branch of the European Union (EU).
The news comes on the day Microsoft announced plans to begin offering business users an integrated anti-virus and anti-spyware product called Microsoft Client Protection. A beta version of this product is expected to be released by year's end. The company is already offering some customers a beta version of its Windows OneCare consumer security software.
At issue is Microsoft's plan to bundle its security software with Windows Vista, the next major version of the Windows operating system due next year.
A Symantec spokeswoman said the company had not filed a formal complaint, but added: "We have been asked to provide information to the EU, and we have complied with that request. The information was really helping them understand the complexity of the security industry and our role in it."
Shortly after Microsoft announced its intention to enter the security space, Symantec CEO John Thompson hinted the company was considering an anti-trust complaint: "They can't use their Windows monopoly unfairly, and the world will be watching. And we will as well."
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redxii
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1 edit | If Microsoft made Windows open source would there be complaints?
Is anyone seeing a pattern here involving Microsoft and the EU? Symantec and Microsoft here are acting like kids, and the EU is everyone but MS's daddy, and MS is the school-ground bully.
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skyroket
join:2001-06-11
Colorado, US | reply to John2g
Whom is Microsoft going to buy for AntiVirus? I love Giant's Antispyware....I plan on buying the unlimited license if they have one. |
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aquias0
join:2005-09-05
Niagara Falls, NY
| I think there still would be complaints. Why? The fear of Microsoft using it's dominate market share in the OS market to take over a dominate share of the security market.
Think about it...bundled with windows is antivirus/spyware applications. How many people would accept that vs look to other vendors? How difficult will these programs be to remove (if they can be removed at all)? There are many valid concerns about this. |
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NeOmega
join:2004-11-18
| reply to John2g
But Symantec sucks! They are worried about Microsoft not because they are bullies, but because Symantec KNOWS it is losing market share, and that every new competitor is eats up what they can't hold.
If Microsoft were to release the anti-virus with their software, I could see how it would fall under anti-monopoly regulations, but Symantec is just being an old lazy man who has rested on his laurels, getting kicked by new and hungry competition.
If Symantec wants to stay alive for more than a few more decades, they seriously need to look at how they make their software, and how they treat their customers. I sure hope the EU sides with capitalism with this one, beause Symantec in it's current state deserves to be stamped out in economic survival of the fittest. |
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Mele20
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join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
1 edit | reply to John2g
I hope Symantec wins. I for one do not want MSAS forced on me especially if it is like IE and cannot be uninstalled. MSAS is well known to DELIBERATELY advise against removal of some spyware that CounterSpy advises a user to remove. Microsoft advises the user to keep the spyware because they don't want any lawsuits from malware vendors and because, as the former team head of MSAS said to me, Microsoft's philosophy is that the spyware vendors have a right to make a living also. So, I certainly don't want Microsoft integrating their antispy ware client, and an AV that probably won't catch certain things deliberately, and sticking that in Vista and telling us that it cannot be uninstalled or turned off. That is exactly what MS will do if some regulatory body doesn't stop them. We all know that the US government has rolled over dead for MS. Let's hope that the EU has more integrity.
edit: fixed typo
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Around 2005 a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. The very survival of the nation will seem to be at stake.Sometime before 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history. The risk and promise will be very high. The Fourth Turning Wm. Straus |
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mers2
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| reply to John2g
I for one find it amusing that Symantec is complaining about MS including an AV & AS as part of the OS when Symantec has agreements with computer manufacturers that bundle Norton with new computers.
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God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. |
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Blackbird
Built for Speed
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join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN | reply to John2g
Godzilla vs. Megalon? And observers can choose which is which... |
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Mele20
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join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI | reply to mers2
Err...doesn't Microsoft have an agreement to "bundle" Windows with OEM computers also? Your argument doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, what in the world is "amusing" about this? This is a deadly serious subject. Why are you making light of it? |
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mers2
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| said by Mele20  :Err...doesn't Microsoft have an agreement to "bundle" Windows with OEM computers also? Your argument doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, what in the world is "amusing" about this? This is a deadly serious subject. Why are you making light of it? It's amusing that Symantec is complaining about MS doing the exact same thing it does. Pot calling kettle black. I'm sorry you fail to see the humor in some situations, doesn't mean others can't. This definitely doesn't strike me as a situation to be upset about.
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God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. |
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Mele20
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Hilo, HI
| So you will welcome Microsoft bundling MSAS and an AV into Windows and you will be unable to uninstall it and possibly not even be allowed to not use it? That is something you think is funny??!!  |
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mers2
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| said by Mele20 :So you will welcome Microsoft bundling MSAS and an AV into Windows and you will be unable to uninstall it and possibly not even be allowed to not use it? That is something you think is funny??!! Users still have a choice of whether or not to use a feature of the OS, just as they have a choice of whether or not to use the AV that comes with their computer. Both companies are guilty of the same practices. IMO MS is within their rights to include anything they want in their OS, just as it's my right to switch to Linux if I don't like what's in the OS. At present I haven't upgraded to XP because I don't like their activation. What I think is funny is one giant company complaining about another giant company using the same business practices. As long as the ability to make choices of which AV or OS to usse remains, I don't see getting upset over this.
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God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| I understand your position a bit better now. But I would point out that the vast majority of users (including myself) know nothing about Linux and I understand that it is NOT an easy OS to learn plus most applications won't work in it. So, I don't think it is a viable solution for the vast majority of users to blithely suggest that they just get Linux if MS starts shoving too much shit down their throats. Why, we shouldn't concern ourselves with trying to stop this ....nah....just switch to Linux. And if you don't believe that Microsoft is not planning on forcing the use of their antispyware and AV on everyone then I have sp,e swamp land I'd love to sell you. (Not to mention call home and DRM on the Pentium D chip that has already been forced on those buying new computers).
In one sense, I see why you find this humorous. However, it so much more than the pot calling the kettle black and reactions like yours serve only to distract from the real, serious issues.
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Around 2005 a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. The very survival of the nation will seem to be at stake.Sometime before 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history. The risk and promise will be very high. The Fourth Turning Wm. Straus |
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mers2
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| said by Mele20 :I understand your position a bit better now. But I would point out that the vast majority of users (including myself) know nothing about Linux and I understand that it is NOT an easy OS to learn plus most applications won't work in it. So, I don't think it is a viable solution for the vast majority of users to blithely suggest that they just get Linux if MS starts shoving too much shit down their throats. Why, we shouldn't concern ourselves with trying to stop this ....nah....just switch to Linux. And if you don't believe that Microsoft is not planning on forcing the use of their antispyware and AV on everyone then I have sp,e swamp land I'd love to sell you. (Not to mention call home and DRM on the Pentium D chip that has already been forced on those buying new computers). In one sense, I see why you find this humorous. However, it so much more than the pot calling the kettle black and reactions like yours serve only to distract from the real, serious issues. Linux is getting easier and easier for the average user. There are some distributions that are geared towards the Windows user in transition. I know many users who are not as technically proficient who use it. Should some of the computer manufacturers follow through on promises we could see Linux shipped with new pc's, which would make it even easier.
The only influence we as consumers have with giant corporations is that which we exert with our pocketbooks.
As I said, as long as people are willing to purchase the OS, MS has every right to do with their product as they please. As does Symantec. Using the court room to fight each other is a solution I am against, particularly when both businesses use the same practices.
Personally, I'm more concerned about DRM chips in computers then I am with MS vs. Symantec. I'm also convinced there will be a market for those users who don't want that.
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God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. |
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Epyon9283
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join:2001-12-26
Dayton, NJ
1 edit | said by mers2 :As I said, as long as people are willing to purchase the OS, MS has every right to do with their product as they please. If you buy a new PC you pay for Windows even if you decide to format it as soon as you get it and install Linux. I don't know of too many big name computer makers that sell PCs with blank hard drives and no Windows license. |
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mers2
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| said by Epyon9283 :said by mers2 :As I said, as long as people are willing to purchase the OS, MS has every right to do with their product as they please. If you buy a new PC you pay for Windows even if you decide to format it as soon as you get it and install Linux. I don't know of too many big name computer makers that sell PCs with blank hard drives and no Windows license. There have been promises by at least one of the big name PC makers to sell PCs with Linux instead of Windows pre-installed. Regardless, users still have the option of going with a smaller company that will either install a blank drive or with another OS.
What is so different about the big name pc makers shipping with MS and with Symantec pre-installed. That pretty much is the issue in this complaint and I fail to see that there is any difference.
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God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. |
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MSeng
Premium,Ex-Mod 2001-08
join:2000-07-13
Ork
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People complain when Microsoft doesn't do something to better secure the OS.
People complain when Microsoft takes steps to better secure the OS.
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noways
@insightBB.com
| reply to Epyon9283
I didn't pay a cent to Microsoft while buying my new PC and my hard drive was blank.
It's simple, don't buy from Dell, Gateway, HP, etc. As long as experienced computer techs don't follow this rule though (it's outrageous how many lazy techs buy/recommend them; yet say they suck) how can home users who don't know any better be expected to? But I'm sure that's your point 
»dban.sourceforge.net for the "bundled" victims that want to install Linux. Bye bye pre-installed anything. |
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tonycola
Premium
join:2003-02-02
92875
| reply to Mele20
Hi Mele20, what I read from you is very intreging. Can you point me to where I can find the statement that MS said about not wanting any lawsuits from malware vendors? I am a network admin. and would really like to share this info. with my people here in the MIS Dept. Please forward any info to: anthony.margarit@usa.gknaerospace.com
Thanks and keep up the good work in informing us.
Tony:) |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
1 edit | I didn't see that in writing (MS is not stupid). However, you can simply look at what MSAS recommends that the user keep and compare that to Sunbelt's CounterSpy recommendation for the same entry and you can see that MS equivocates on some of the "milder" spyware/adware, whereas, CS takes a stronger stance. |
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