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gate1975mlm
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Philadelphia, PA

3 edits

gate1975mlm

Premium Member

Leo Laporte says software firewall not needed!

Leo Laporte says all the time that if you use a router you do not need to use a software firewall. Infact he recommends not too. What do you all think?

Drunkula
Premium Member
join:2000-06-12
Denton, TX

1 edit

Drunkula

Premium Member

Re: Leo Laport says software firewall not needed!

I'd say he's stupid for recommending such actions. Just my 2 cents....

EDIT:
I guess I should elaborate a little. My reasoning is that most home routers do not block outbound traffic by default. Without that functionality I think you're playing with fire.

PetePuma
How many lumps do you want
MVM
join:2002-06-13
Arlington, VA

PetePuma to gate1975mlm

MVM

to gate1975mlm
It's not the first time I've said it on this site-- Leo is an idiot.

I'm not a strong proponent or opponent of software firewalls. A lot of it depends on your competency. But to explicitly NOT recommend it is stupid. Most of the time it's a good idea and won't hurt you.

Steve
I know your IP address

join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA

8 recommendations

Steve to Drunkula

to Drunkula
said by Drunkula:

I'd say he's stupid for recommending such actions.
I don't think that's stupid at all - I don't run a software firewall of any kind either.
My reasoning is that most home routers do not block outbound traffic by default. Without that functionality I think you're playing with fire.
An outbound firewall doesn't offer any first-line defense: it only protects you if you have already done something stupid.

So what you're saying: "I do stupid things and need outbound protection, and he's stupid for suggesting I don't"

?

Steve

Vampirefo
Premium Member
join:2000-12-11
Huntington, WV

1 recommendation

Vampirefo to gate1975mlm

Premium Member

to gate1975mlm
Leo is just stating the truth, but if people want to use a software firewall go ahead and use it.

KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium Member
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD

2 recommendations

KoolMoe to gate1975mlm

Premium Member

to gate1975mlm
If you make a claim that someone said something, it would be helpful to point to where that can be verified - assuming it's available.

I don't use a software firewall. I have a router, have anti-virus, and have SpyBot S&D set to run every so often.
So, assuming my own practices are wise enough to keep malicious crap off my computer - and that my AV and Spyware programs can help where I miss - I see no need for a software firewall.

If legit programs like WMP, Real, etc. want to phone home on occasion, it doesn't bother me.

Actually, I guess I do use a software firewall now that one was installed with XP SP2... I'm not going to take pains to disable it, but I don't worry about my Win2k machines that don't have such either.
KM
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

2 edits

BlitzenZeus to gate1975mlm

Premium Member

to gate1975mlm
I only really run a software firewall as I use a method which doesn't allow for a hardware firewall, my cell phone, or dial-up at times.

However I would still continue to run one to prevent the built-in windows networking, and administration from being used in a networked environment, it would also allow me to restrict which ip addresses could use windows built-in networking within the network.

gate1975mlm
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Philadelphia, PA

gate1975mlm to Steve

Premium Member

to Steve
said by Steve:

said by Drunkula:

I'd say he's stupid for recommending such actions.
I don't think that's stupid at all - I don't run a software firewall of any kind either.
My reasoning is that most home routers do not block outbound traffic by default. Without that functionality I think you're playing with fire.
An outbound firewall doesn't offer any first-line defense: it only protects you if you have already done something stupid.

So what you're saying: "I do stupid things and need outbound protection, and he's stupid for suggesting I don't"

?

Steve
Thats what I was thinking!

I never install any bad stuff on my pc. And I also am running things like Anti Virus software,SpywareBlaster,Microsoft AntiSpyware,Spybot - Search & Destroy,Trojan Remover, Adaware and the Spyware Block List File so all those things would stop the bad stuff from getting on my pc in the first place right?
gate1975mlm

gate1975mlm to KoolMoe

Premium Member

to KoolMoe
said by KoolMoe:

If you make a claim that someone said something, it would be helpful to point to where that can be verified - assuming it's available.

I don't use a software firewall. I have a router, have anti-virus, and have SpyBot S&D set to run every so often.
So, assuming my own practices are wise enough to keep malicious crap off my computer - and that my AV and Spyware programs can help where I miss - I see no need for a software firewall.

If legit programs like WMP, Real, etc. want to phone home on occasion, it doesn't bother me.

Actually, I guess I do use a software firewall now that one was installed with XP SP2... I'm not going to take pains to disable it, but I don't worry about my Win2k machines that don't have such either.
KM
He says it almost every week on his radio show.

Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire

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Cudni to Steve

MVM

to Steve
What if the system allows something stupid to happen, as in something installed on the comp due to unknown and un-patched vulnerability, to an otherwise cautious user?

edit@ or if in error wrong patch is applied
»www.eweek.com/article2/0 ··· 4,00.asp

Cudni

SirSteve
Premium Member
join:2003-11-28
Woodbury, CT

SirSteve to gate1975mlm

Premium Member

to gate1975mlm
This would be true if he was talking about a Mac and I'd be willing to bet he was. He's a big Mac advocate.

gate1975mlm
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Philadelphia, PA

1 edit

gate1975mlm

Premium Member

said by SirSteve:

This would be true if he was talking about a Mac and I'd be willing to bet he was. He's a big Mac advocate.
Yes I know he loves mac but I am 100% sure he was talking about the PC.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

3 recommendations

dave to Steve

Premium Member

to Steve
I'm with stupid.

Mercurybird
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
Hooks, TX

2 recommendations

Mercurybird to gate1975mlm

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to gate1975mlm
Even though I run Smoothwall I still run NPF 2004. Why? Because I paid for it. What a waste it would be to pay for it and then not use it.

Layers folks, layers!

I have one rule that I live by... 'Have as many reasons as you possibly can for why you do what you do. Have as many reasons as you possibly can for why you don't do what you don't do.' You will never be confused.

Mercurybird

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

1 recommendation

Hall to gate1975mlm

MVM

to gate1975mlm
said by gate1975mlm:

Leo Laport says all the time that if you use a router you do not need to use a software firewall.
He was kind and left out the part about "...only do this if you're a competent, intelligent computer user...".

My wife's computer went two years with NO software firewall and she had ... ZERO problems. Why ?? 'cause she was educated about security, common sense, and so on. She doesn't fall for browser popups telling her "WARNING: Spyware has been detected on your computer. Click here to remove it."

GKJUG
@ziplink.net

GKJUG to gate1975mlm

Anon

to gate1975mlm
I think Leo's right on the money - if you know what you're doing. I don't see any harm in having Windows Firewall up just in case there's a slip up though.
jp10558
Premium Member
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY

jp10558 to gate1975mlm

Premium Member

to gate1975mlm
I think software firewalls are necessary for several reasons. One, they are simpler to maintain for most users who likely will just turn off a firewall entirelly if it's breaking things and they can't figure out how to use it.

Two, with laptops much more prevelant - do you want to bet your security on someone else's config and setup as well as trust the competence of everyone else on the LAN when you're at college or the cafe?

Keizer
I'M Your Huckleberry
MVM
join:2003-01-20

2 recommendations

Keizer to Steve

MVM

to Steve
I don't run a software firewall of any kind either. An outbound firewall doesn't offer any first-line defense: it only protects you if you have already done something stupid.

So what you're saying: "I do stupid things and need outbound protection, and he's stupid for suggesting I don't"

?

Steve
Well gee, aren't you special! Maybe some of us like to do stupid stuff on purpose when we surf. You know there are times when you want to as well!

Personally, I don't rely heavely on any of these security apps to keep my system clean. I have unconventional ways of handeling that.

Keizer

redxii
Mod
join:2001-02-26
Michigan
Asus RT-AC3100
Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH2

2 edits

1 recommendation

redxii to gate1975mlm

Mod

to gate1975mlm
Somewhat in agreeance.

I have a router but I don't use a software firewall ATM. I have alot of games and apps that are internet-enabled. Even at my proficiency level, configuring rules for apps was a very tedious job, and alot of the times I couldn't get the right ports or port type (either due to lack of documentation, or there are just SO MANY for some apps, and when I miss a port it will interrupt the game).

Another reason is because a firewall years ago is not a firewall today. Companies like ZA or Symantec are into memory sucking, CPU hogging "suites" and true firewalls like Kerio 2.15 are dying off to make way for more firewall suites.

I use IE, I don't use an admin account, and have AVG. I'm just dandy. I use AVG is the only 3rd party security app running.

Da Geek Kid
join:2003-10-11
::1

1 edit

Da Geek Kid to gate1975mlm

Member

to gate1975mlm
Leo is a JACKA$$$

Plain and simple, really. He need not to worry on his apple

taximan233
join:2004-01-24
Cincinnati, OH

taximan233

Member

Can someone post the "whole" article or a link to what Leo stated.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

dadkins to gate1975mlm

MVM

to gate1975mlm
Keep in mind, a router is not bulletproof. Occasionally, I do see Outpost throw a flag. Better to have a second line of defense than to see your system crumble.

I do have "other" measures in place incase something does get through(it can happen).

EDIT: Spelling.

redxii
Mod
join:2001-02-26
Michigan
Asus RT-AC3100
Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH2

1 edit

redxii to taximan233

Mod

to taximan233
You can't touch or see radio waves but you can hear them. Just Googled and found this reference to his radio show:

»NO outgoing traffic protection
Transcript: »www.grc.com/sn/SN-003.pdf

salzan
Experienced Optimist
Premium Member
join:2004-01-08
WA State

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salzan to gate1975mlm

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to gate1975mlm
In a perfect world with only super-users on the LAN it might make more sense. I've got a 13 year old daughter and even though she's very well educated, she could still be tricked. My wife's computer is also connected and she's a very casual user who could also be tricked.

I also hate software that insists on calling home, even when the options are set to not allow it.

I'll stick with our Kerio setup.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

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Mele20 to gate1975mlm

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to gate1975mlm
I think a software firewall is necessary only on a dialup connection and then ICF is just fine. On broadband just get behind a router. I stopped using ZA several years ago...LONG before I got a router. I had NO firewall, no router and I was just fine. I have never gotten a virus or spyware. But then I have no desire to look at porn, gambling sites, warez, etc. I am a careful user and I would NEVER DREAM of being without Proxo! I got a bit irritated at Wilders today because it was recommended to someone that it may be necessary to bypass Proxo there because of problems some are having with the new software. Hmmpf! I don't bypass Proxo for any site even a trusted, favorite one on a permanent basis although I might temporarily for troubleshooting purposes. Luckily I'm not having any problems there. I say use Proxo and be done with it. You don't need a software firewall but these days one should be behind a router.
codeclamp
join:2005-10-16
Chatham, ON

1 recommendation

codeclamp to gate1975mlm

Member

to gate1975mlm
I personally don't go without a software firewall on Windows systems, I enjoy being able to have control over which applications can have access to the internet. Seems wise that more protection is usually better.
laz45
join:2002-08-01
Orlando, FL

laz45 to gate1975mlm

Member

to gate1975mlm
I say hes right, I have never used a real firewall and I have never been hacked trojaned or whatever. It's just stupid people getting hacked downloading starcraft maphack from kazaa . Now some of you might say how do you know you haven't been hacked, well when I'm bored and that's every like 3 months I install a firewall(Kerio) and an Anti-Virus(NOD32) just to make sure and nothing has been found EVER....

Drunkula
Premium Member
join:2000-06-12
Denton, TX

1 recommendation

Drunkula to gate1975mlm

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to gate1975mlm
I knew my response would ruffle a few feathers.

No I don't think you're stupid at all. What I said was "he is stupid for recommending such action.". Let me elaborate...

Leo is in a position where people who don't know any better may put stock into what he says - and follow his advice. Such people probably don't know how to secure their machines properly. Do you see where I'm going with this? I personally choose to firewall every device in my home LAN at the router level and at each node (software level). I know I'm not completely secure but I have good piece-of-mind that I am sufficiently safe.

foxsteve
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Campbell, CA

foxsteve to gate1975mlm

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to gate1975mlm
I think the subject of this thread is nothing but talk, that's all talk. It should be: who need (do not need) software firewall?

Answer: if you study IT Security and lost time for this task regularly - you do not need software firewall, but if you are very busy and use your computer for looking for some reference data or other information with using the Internet - you need software firewall.

Keizer
I'M Your Huckleberry
MVM
join:2003-01-20

Keizer to laz45

MVM

to laz45
said by laz45:

. Now some of you might say how do you know you haven't been hacked, well when I'm bored and that's every like 3 months I install a firewall(Kerio) and an Anti-Virus(NOD32) just to make sure and nothing has been found EVER....
I do the same thing with spyware software. I will occasionally install MS antispy, or spy sweeper, or counterspy, and I never have any spyware. I have even gone looking for it, and had a hard time finding some to install for testing.

Keizer