JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
| reply to Noah Vail
Re: And the winner is.......
Even if there were more 'liberal' reporters than 'conservative,' which would be an overwhelmingly simplistic view, it doesn't mean the news media is liberal.
The news media is a complex system and the journalists and reporters are beholden to much bigger forces than their own personal politics. Namely the forces I described in my post. |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to tiger72
Will a comparison between Dem and Non-Dem do for you?
Well there is this 1995 poll by the Roper Center for the Freedom Forum showed that 89 percent of Washington reporters polled voted for Bill Clinton. (RC is partnered by NYT, WPst and others.) That's about double the percentage of the country that voted for him. Not exactly a representative sample of US citizens.
And then there's a survey by the American Association of Newspaper Editors of over 1000 journalists in 1996 found that 61% of newsroom staffers identified themselves as Liberal/Democratic while only 15% were Conservative/Republican.
You can stick Libertarian journalists (both of them) anywhere you want in there and it won't change the outcome.
There's this nifty tidbit unearthed by NYT journalist John Tierney prior to the 2004 election showing a 3to1 preference for Kerry by journalists assigned to cover the election and a 12to1 preference for Kerry by journalists inside the beltway. There are several other instances in the article illustrating bias.
Sorry, I have to give a Google Cache link unless you want to pay for NYT archive browsing.
»64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:oy···22&hl=en
These journalist preference ratios are WAY off election results. They are nowhere near a representative sampling of the American Public.
What percentage of Americans are registered Libertarians? What percentage of Journalists are registered Libertarians? Blessed few I'd bet. I doubt they have any meaningful effect on the above numbers.
I'll wait here for your numbers that show that there really are as many conservatives as there are liberals in journalism.
NV |
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robscullion
Premium
join:2001-12-07
Philadelphia, PA
 ·Speakeasy
| reply to MichiganTelephone
Re: Sarcasm aside, think about the legal liability
I have to say, I never even considered the 911 angle. Deliberate trickery would definitely open ISPs up to lawsuits/criminal charges if it interfered with E911.
Kind of funny that the very issue the Telco's probably thought would be a burden to all these startup VoIP companies could turn out to be the same thing that shields them from ISP shenanigans. |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Noah Vail
Re: More Myths?
said by Noah Vail  :Well, I'm certain that having 75%-90% Journalists identifying themselves as Democrats vs. >10% Republicans has NO EFFECT AT ALL on our news coverage. Since you have so many opinions not backed up with fact i'm just going to point this one thing out: Find a poll that's not limited to 2 parties and includes "Libertarians" as a choice for those reporters and I can guarantee that the outcome will look quite different.
Come to the Red Room and maybe you can find folks who support your frame of mind more readily, however even then some of the Libertarians and Moderates may still ask you for sources.
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In a fascist government, National Security ALWAYS override Personal Freedoms. |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to JoeOnSunset
Sheesh! First I find the Moon Landings are myths, then Auschwitz, now this!
Well, now that I am fully enlightened we can assume that if the current president had a D after his name there would be NO DIFFERENCE in the war coverage.
We can certainly evidence that by reading back all the negative editorials and constant stream of negatively focused bylines that were written about Somalia and Mogadishu......
all that negative press......hmm.
Well, it was there. Right between 540-Rooms for Rent and 560-Geriatric Supplies.
huh.
Well there was all that doom and gloom press before we went into Bosnia and Serbia like before we went into Iraq. And then constant second guessing Clinton while the wars went on.
Oh? None?
I guess the NYT-LAt-WAPst missed those wars. Well they probably had a charity event that weekend.
Well they certainly nailed Clinton to the tree for that Aspirin Factory bombing. Wheh! CBS must have covered that for 10, maybe 15 seconds! But it was a SCATHING 15 seconds.
Well, at least Newsweek covered the Sitting President - Lewinski thing with the same gusto they covered the George Bush DWI of 20 years ago.
No wait. Newsweek initially tried to bury the Lewinski story. Sorry. Forgot about that.
Well, I'm certain that having 75%-90% Journalists identifying themselves as Democrats vs. >10% Republicans has NO EFFECT AT ALL on our news coverage.
Oh! The #1 reason given in college to become a journalist?
"I want to help change the world"
Hmmm.
NV
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Abortion: It's really a Republican plot to thin the liberal herd! |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
| reply to Noah Vail
Re: Yea, don't blame ya......
The idea of a liberal news media is a myth. It is an truly brilliant construction of the right. Imagine calling the news media that was heralding Bush throughout all of his missteps these past years "liberally biased." It's brilliant! Anything short of utter suppliance to the party line gets labeled "biased."
In reality: The big news media are lazy, and like to report what everyone else is reporting. They are timid, and don't like to critcize things that are popular. Finally, they are greedy, and love to report anything they think will make people watch. (That is, unless they are specifically created to serve an agenda, like Fox News.) |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to voyager6868
If I were a defender of the left I'd want to dodge the issue too.
Fox is an opposing view of the liberal lockstep of nearly every other news delivering entity. I defend them because they bring some balance to the news-a-tainment industry.
If there were a truly unbiased major hard news outlet, I wouldn't spend this much time defending Fox. In fact I probably agree with you on some of your negative assessments.
But I give Fox the credit in that they at least (indirectly) portray themselves as a conservative news org. Whereas the left leaning Big Media is in a constant state of denial of their bias while simultaneously defending it. Imagine listening to a game of Twister.
And lets not forget, there is one conservative Fox and on the other side hundreds of liberal news-its.
In truth, I am a recovering liberal and still hold on to one or two of my past twisted beliefs. So maybe I still have a soft spot for lefties.
But I try to remember, leftists are artists and musicians and actors and liberal arts professors and whatnot.
For goodness sake, they're the hired help.
Whatever were we thinking letting them get anywhere near our government? I cling to the hope that our children are learning from our mistakes.
{noah steps off his soapbox and calls it a night}
NV
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Abortion: It's really a Republican plot to thin the liberal herd! |
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MichiganTelephone
@anonymizer.com
 from:
robscullion
|  reply to Noah Vail
Sarcasm aside, think about the legal liability
Before anyone in any U.S. telecom or cable companies start thinking this may be a good idea, they need to consider the possibility that someone may have a heart attack and use their FCC-mandated e911 over VoIP in an attempt to summon help. If your company is deliberately degrading the call and the 911 operator can't understand what is being said and the person dies, heaven help you when the jury gets through with you (and if I were the lawyer, I'd go after the scalp of whatever executive bastard thought this was a good idea, and make sure that he or she was personally named in the lawsuit, in addition to the company providing the broadband service).
Of course companies could possibly absolve themselves of some liability by admitting up front to customers that they deliberately degrade VoIP services not their own, but then that might discourage some customers from signing up for that company's service in the first place. The whole point of degrading service is to be sneaky, so the customer doesn't realize that you're deliberately interfering with the service he thinks he's paying for. But by being sneaky and hiding the fact that you do this, you paint a big old target on your company in case anyone's life, health, or property is put in jeopardy because you deliberately impeded their access to 911 via their VoIP connection, simply because you or your company are greedy bastards.
That is why I think this will never happen in the U.S. - we have too many lawyers that would give up their Rolexes (if not their firstborn) to have a case like this, with a large communications corporation (with VERY deep pockets) that many people (including some that would undoubtedly wind up on any jury hearing the case) inherently dislike as a defendendant, and evidence of deliberate interference with the lawful use of the service the customer is paying for (that is, Internet connectivity), which resulted in death or serious injury - particularly since the FCC has already in effect put their stamp of approval on the use of VoIP to provide e911 service. Then again, it may happen because some corporate executives are so arrogant that they think that no law applies to them and that they can just buy their way out of any trouble that they might get into, but as certain Enron executives found out, real courtrooms dispense real punishments, even to high-powered corporate executives (and while I am not a lawyer, if it were ever revealed which executive made the decision to implement the blocking, I would at least want to see that person put on trial for manslaughter, or something similar that is an appropriate charge under the circumstances).
I just hope nothing tragic has to happen for this sort of deliberate interference to be outlawed by the federal government. But if the unfortunate should happen, I hope it gets at least as much publicity as when that guy got shot in Texas and his family couldn't use 911 on their VoIP service to summon help, because the guy had neglected to activate the 911 service on his line by giving his address information (this was what started all the furor over lack of 911 service on VoIP). And I hope that whatever corporation is responsible for the deliberate degradation is named in the press, and held to account for their actions. |
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voyager6868
join:2003-01-29
Lynnwood, WA | reply to Noah Vail
Re: 1 Up, 99 till even.
If you think Fox News is "better" you must be tone deaf. |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA | reply to Noah Vail
Fox doubled the song count to 2.
I'll grant you it's only marginally better than the first song, but at least it's a DIFFERENT song.
NV |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Noah Vail
Re: I JUST KNOW.....
said by Noah Vail :Think CBSABCNBCCNNMSNBCNPR-etc....100 voices, 1 song. NV And FOX News is the answer to all of our doubts. Thank GOD!
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In a fascist government, National Security ALWAYS override Personal Freedoms. |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA | reply to bored_in_nh
Think CBSABCNBCCNNMSNBCNPR-etc....100 voices, 1 song.
NV |
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bored_in_nh
join:2003-01-04
Stamping Ground, KY | reply to Noah Vail
You are being sarcastic, right? This is indeed America, and stuff like that happens all the time.
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FEMA = Federal Emergency Mismanagement Agency |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to robscullion
........ this will never happen in the US
Big Media block content to further their own agenda?
PShaw!
This is AMERICA after all!
I mean, it's not like Russia where a select group of elitists decide what we get (and don't get) from our media and content providers.
Surely here our media would never carefully craft our content to make it appear that we were getting what we are promised when in fact what is delivered is highly selective.
Geeezee-Louisie. You guys are SO paranoid.
Lighten up already.
NV
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Abortion: It's really a Republican plot to thin the liberal herd! |
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