Insder
There never was a second I in my name
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Salem, MA | Still no reason for DRM stuff.
Releasing a patch to make it visible still keeps it there, and doesn't make a hidden DRM rootkit right.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
3 edits | said by Insder  :Releasing a patch to make it visible still keeps it there, and doesn't make a hidden DRM rootkit right. You are correct. And having to ask SONY to give you uninstall instructions is abominable.
If they want to protect their CD with DRM that is their right --- BUT ---
1 - It should be plastered all over the front of the CD case before you buy it.
2 - It should require you to respond to prompts that it is being installed and that it will alter and potentially break your CD drive access for other products.
3 - It should include standard uninstall procedures and be un-installable from the "ADD/REMOVE" option in the Windows control panel.
P.S> I am sure the uninstall instructions will be findable from a Google search before the day is out.
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Insder
said by Insder :Releasing a patch to make it visible still keeps it there, and doesn't make a hidden DRM rootkit right. I got a better fix for Sony. How about I buy your CD, open it, and when it doesn't function on a limited-user rights account, I return it as a defective product? No offense, but if I can't rip your CD to un-DRMed MP3s compatible with my MP3 player, then the entire CD line is useless to me as a consumer.
Let the retail chains take the massive amount of defective product returns back to Sony and deal with them. |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Thaler :said by Insder :Releasing a patch to make it visible still keeps it there, and doesn't make a hidden DRM rootkit right. I got a better fix for Sony. How about I buy your CD, open it, and when it doesn't function on a limited-user rights account, I return it as a defective product? No offense, but if I can't rip your CD to un-DRMed MP3s compatible with my MP3 player, then the entire CD line is useless to me as a consumer. Let the retail chains take the massive amount of defective product returns back to Sony and deal with them. Unfortunately stores usually have a pretty strong policy on open music and software cd's. I had a similar incidence at fry's. I bought a DVD ripping package (321studios.com) which needed to be activated online but their site said 'due to pressure from the MPAA we are no longer activating any more copies of 'that software'. there was nothing about the online activation on the package and because the software was opened, the store manager refused to refund my money and he was firm on the fact. didnt even offer me store credit.
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radarman
join:2005-06-01
Odenton, MD
| I believe you may have a legit right to "hack" that program. It wouldn't be the first time, either.
I have actually had to download "cracks" to run software that I have a legitimate (as in paid-for) license to use. X-win32, for example, restricts you to 3 reinstalls, even on the same hardware. Not knowing that, I blew through my 3 installs in less than 6 months. So, even though I still have a valid maintenance license, I had to go and download the crack. (In all fairness, the company did offer me two "freebie" activations - but I decided to go with the crack anyway - since I reinstall frequently)
Now, when I buy a product that requires "product activation" I immediately go and download the crack for it. It generally saves a lot of hassle down the road.
Yes, I do buy the software I use (or use a GPL'ed version) - I just don't feel the need to jump through hoops to prove it to the software developer. |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO
·Cox HSI
| reply to dvd536
I would have escalated that one immediately, starting with calling my credit card company and refusing the charge, followed by the normal other things, BBB, talk to his manager, etc.
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2kmaro
Think
Premium,ExMod 1 BC
join:2000-07-11
ColossalCave
clubs:  
1 edit | reply to Insder
Let's see if they reply - or just send the RIAA dogs after me. Sent this to them via the web support request page:
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The problem is SONY installing any software on my computer that changes the way my operating system operates.
I believe that's called a VIRUS or possibly even a TROJAN and in most cases it's illegal to put it there.
This crippling ware will NOT come near my computers and if it does, I will find some way to sue your butts off.
No, not some 16-year old song thief (a.k.a. pirate) - but rather an employeed adult male with spending dollars to prove it.
FIND A NEW BUSINESS MODEL catering to selling singles inexpensively rather than selling albums with 1 good track and 11 pieces of trash and you'll fare better in the new market place.
In the meantime, no SONY labeled CDs for me at all. Period. None. Nada.
And no SONY branded anything if I can help it - and there are 4 SONY branded CD/DVD players here in my house right now - won't be any more.
Mess with things I own without my permission and I take a very strong dislike to all responsible.
While I hate a thief, I abhore someone who would invade the privacy of the things I own, as my computer with which I make a LIVING and if you screw it up so that it either doesn't work or causes me to release developed software that doesn't work as tested to a client, you're messing with my livelyhood. Not nice, and I flat won't risk it. Hence - No SONY in my world.
Screw Sony, screw RIAA, screw the money hungry S.O.B.s of the world that won't work toward helping the consumer in a meaningful fashion.
EDIT Received their reply...
Sony BMG and First 4 Internet have just released an update that will completely remove the rootkit based DRM content protection software and replace it with a non-rootkit DRM technology that is compatible with all current security protocols. To ensure the security of your system, please visit their software update website to obtain and install Service Pack 2 at:
»updates.xcp-aurora.com
If after this update, you still wish to uninstall our software, please visit the form below using the computer where the software is currently installed and you will be emailed an uninstall link within 1 business day (M-F).
»cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form9.html
Your "Case ID" is: removed.
TIP: Our uninstall request form will require a small ActiveX plug-in
(from First 4 Internet). Be sure to also temporarily turn off any
pop-up blocker software. Although a non-ActiveX process is in
development, currently, our online process is the only option.
Should you prefer to wait for the next uninstallation version,
one is due to be released later this month at:
»cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/updates.html
Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.
The Sony BMG Online Support Team |
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Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey | reply to Topmounter
And to add to this, I would have printed off the webpage and shown the manager that the software was useless to ANYONE.
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Never argue with an idiot. They’ll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to radarman
said by radarman :I believe you may have a legit right to "hack" that program. It wouldn't be the first time, either. I have actually had to download "cracks" to run software that I have a legitimate (as in paid-for) license to use. X-win32, for example, restricts you to 3 reinstalls, even on the same hardware. Not knowing that, I blew through my 3 installs in less than 6 months. So, even though I still have a valid maintenance license, I had to go and download the crack. (In all fairness, the company did offer me two "freebie" activations - but I decided to go with the crack anyway - since I reinstall frequently) Now, when I buy a product that requires "product activation" I immediately go and download the crack for it. It generally saves a lot of hassle down the road. Yes, I do buy the software I use (or use a GPL'ed version) - I just don't feel the need to jump through hoops to prove it to the software developer. Copyright Law grants you the right to make copies for personal use, so yes you can hack the DRM if you want to make a copy for personal use only. such as MP3s/AACs for your Ipod, etc. the law gives you a rightfull access to these copies and the music industry cannot legally fully deny them.
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to dvd536
said by dvd536 :there was nothing about the online activation on the package and because the software was opened, the store manager refused to refund my money and he was firm on the fact. didnt even offer me store credit. Heh, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a full refund on a DRM purchase. Especially in your case, if a store owner refused to take the product back, noting that the product itself is defective, I would leave the product in their care, and stop payment on the credit card for that charge. Let the store argue with your credit card company about "forcing" a sale of a defective product. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd :Copyright Law grants you the right to make copies for personal use, so yes you can hack the DRM if you want to make a copy for personal use only. Ah, but now you're violating DMCA by bypassing copy protection services! True, you have the right to make a backup copy for personal uses...but if that involves breaking copy protection, you're now skating on the illegal side of the law here. This would be the big issue behind why people are upset with the existance of DMCA today.  |
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trparky
Bite My Shiny Metal Ass
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
clubs: | reply to 2kmaro
I couldn't have said it better myself! |
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cluth
join:2004-01-06
Anchorage, AK
| reply to Thaler
Ah...but what if he didn't pay by credit card? Out of luck. This is why I *ALWAYS* buy things with my credit card.
Note: if a credit card company denies your dispute on a matter like this, go back to the booklet of Visa/MC/AmEx/Discover benefits that came with your card. Oftentimes there will be many extras, one of which may be a return guarantee. If the store refuses to take your return, this service may pay for the return. It's often handled by a separate entity than your credit card's issuing bank, though, so you'll have to look up and call a separate phone number. |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| reply to Thaler
Of course, you COULD just hook up a plain old CD player to your sound card and record in .WAV to your hard drive and then convert to MP 3. This is, of course, the fatal flaw in DRM, since there are oodles of recorder programs and the CD would have to work with regular CD players.
It is, perhaps, a harder way to do it, but, in the end, if one wants it bad enough...And, the added bonus is the DRM crap is stripped off the recording. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by Fatal Vector :
Of course, you COULD just hook up a plain old CD player to your sound card and record in .WAV to your hard drive and then convert to MP 3. This is, of course, the fatal flaw in DRM, since there are oodles of recorder programs and the CD would have to work with regular CD players. True, I know there are ways to defeat DRM, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it as a consumer product. If I have to arrange that kind of conversion, just to get to use the product in the way I want, I'd call that defective, and issue an expedient return back to the retail chain. |
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jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·surpasshosting
 ·ViaTalk
| reply to Thaler
To really stick it to Sony (and get their retailers to exert some pressure) the thing to do is keep taking it back, report defective, and exchanging it for an identical copy. This is permitted by most of the big chain stores in their return policy, because there's a certain percentage of CDs and DVDs that are flawed right out of the package.
If enough people do this 10 or 15 times with the same title eventually someone will notice the huge pile of manufacturer returns sitting in the back room... |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to TKJunkMail
I guess it won't work on Linux  |
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK
2 edits | reply to Thaler
Nope. The DMCA cannot hinder or modify any other law set forth before.
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| reply to dvd536
Perhaps you should have uttered the magical words "State Attorneys General". I have never had a problem returning opened software or hardware when it was defective or incompatible in some way.
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iamsomeone
@stmarytx.edu | reply to Fatal Vector
isnt hooking up a CD player to your sound card also circumventing copyright protection? (albeit in another manner) Wouldnt this also technically be illegal due to the DMCA? |
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