rob316
join:2005-10-17
Carteret, NJ | Wiil Verizon use existing coax cable from cable co Will verizon use the existing coax cable that is installed in my home for cable tv to use for FIOS TV. I have multiple coax runs going through my house for different rooms. |
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| Re: Wiil Verizon use existing coax cable from cabl Probably, as long as your cable is in good condition. I would speculate that RG-59 would be more than adequate for what Verizon needs (compared to the more expensive and less common RG-6 for satellite TV). |
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Artec
join:2003-02-23
Middletown, NJ | RJ-59 are you crazy? It can not carry a dig sig very well, and high def dont even think about it. |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| said by peterl1365:Probably, as long as your cable is in good condition. I would speculate that RG-59 would be more than adequate for what Verizon needs (compared to the more expensive and less common RG-6 for satellite TV). I wouldn't say RG-6 is less common. Maybe a few years ago. But thanks to satellite and digital television, RG-6 is becoming much more common. RG-59 was "good enough" for analog, but the signal loss over longer runs can lead to an unusable signal strength.
said by Artec:RJ-59 are you crazy? It can not carry a dig sig very well, and high def dont even think about it. HD and digital signals definitely can be transmitted over RG-59. Short runs usually aren't a problem. However RG-6 is preferred for longer runs and splitting to it's lower signal loss rates.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. |
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| reply to Artec
RG-59 is not necessarily a no go situation - and it has nothing to do with digital vs analog.
It has to do with signal loss per foot and particularly with high-frequency roll-off...
So the game plan is this -
if your house is already wired for coax, but you have dropped the cable company and are taking on FIOS/TV - they're going to first try jumping from the FIOS/ONT right into your bad-old in house cable system - if it works, which it probably will, great!
If it doesn't - or some rooms don't or some of the upper channels (higher frequency) have a problem ... well then that will have to be fixed on a case by case basis... |
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| The reason I said RG-59 would probably be sufficient is because the ONT will probably supply such a strong and clean signal that attenuation, even at higher frequencies would not be an issue.
Now, I may be wrong about the wrong about the higher frequencies, but I don't think there's been anything to indicate that Fios TV will require the same bandwidth as DBS. My guess is that the ONTs have been designed for maximum compatibility, i.e. they will work with RG-59.
I would speculate that most homes have cable runs of 75 feet or less from the demarc point. For satellite, this would be marginal because you might have another 50-100 feet from the demarc point to the dish itself (think rooftop mounts, backyard mounts, etc) that must be added to the interior cable runs. However, for Fios, you do not have that additional length to worry about.
I think a bigger worry is that many homes will have multiple el cheapo splitters and unterminated runs. Not a big deal until you start trying to run ethernet (or MOCA) over them. Then you may have issues with signal echo (is that the right term?). This would likely be a problem for RG-6 as well. |
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| Correct, MOCA is the bigger problem. We hope it is designed robustly enough - I've read at least one engineer on one of these threads or forums who says that the Coaxsys implementation of a similar but incompatible system is better... We shall see.
Worst case - some drops don't work in your home - the tech comes in with some test equipment and starts replacing splitters, wall jacks and cable runs... |
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| reply to rob316
so the fact that verizon would have to open my cable box on the side of my house to disconnect all my rooms from adelphia's service would be ok or is that a grey area in the law. |
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| reply to rob316
Re: Wiil Verizon use existing coax cable from cable co Isnt rg59 for cb radios ???lol ?? |
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| reply to jeffs471
Re: Wiil Verizon use existing coax cable from cabl (Assuming this is a serious question  )
You call Adelphia and tell them to cancel.
They do their thing - but you don't give them permission to enter your house. Maybe they take that box off your house, but probably not.
Verizon comes and re-uses whatever cable Adelphia left behind.
Since you didn't let them into your house - that's almost everything. |
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| reply to jeffs471
said by jeffs471:so the fact that verizon would have to open my cable box on the side of my house to disconnect all my rooms from adelphia's service would be ok or is that a grey area in the law. The cables belong to you. The box ***maybe** belongs to Adelphia. If this is an issue, just tell them to remove the box so that you can get access to the cables. |
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| reply to brooklynman4
IIRC, RG-59 was the standard cabling for cable TV systems before the advent of digital cable/HSI and DBS TV. It probably was also used for CB radios, but that is mostly irrelevant. |
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JohnAPremium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA | reply to jeffs471
said by jeffs471:so the fact that verizon would have to open my cable box on the side of my house to disconnect all my rooms from adelphia's service would be ok All those rooms are wired to a splitter somewhere. Verizon need only run to that splitter, disconnect the cable feed, connect the FiOS feed to the splitter. They should never need to touch the cable box or drop, which is all that the cable co can justify as being their property. |
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approval from:
tschmidt 
| reply to peterl1365
Actually twinlead was the standard, but that tended to not get treated very well and when cable TV came along, RG-59 became more popular as it became easier to get. CB's use RG-58, or RG-8 for lower loss, both of which are 50 ohm cables.
The ONT puts out a 50-870 Mhz signal @ 18dBmV. Generic loss numbers are 8dB @ 900 Mhz per 100' for RG-59 and 7dB @ 900 Mhz per 100' for RG-6. Every 2 way split will result in a 3.5dB loss. TV's are designed for a minimum 1dBmV signal. That should be all the numbers you need to do the math. |
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| said by sdgthy :
Actually twinlead was the standard, but that tended to not get treated very well and when cable TV came along, RG-59 became more popular as it became easier to get. CB's use RG-58, or RG-8 for lower loss, both of which are 50 ohm cables.
The ONT puts out a 50-870 Mhz signal @ 18dBmV. Generic loss numbers are 8dB @ 900 Mhz per 100' for RG-59 and 7dB @ 900 Mhz per 100' for RG-6. Every 2 way split will result in a 3.5dB loss. TV's are designed for a minimum 1dBmV signal. That should be all the numbers you need to do the math.
Thanks. The twinlead stuff predates me, so I'll take your word for it.
Are the ONT's transmitting their digital signals under 900 MHz. That alone is a huge difference from DBS, which goes up to 2GHz or so, if I am not mistaken. At under 900 MHz, RG-59 should be more than adequate, provided there are not too many splitters. |
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| Twinlead actually has less loss than coax, 6db @ 900 Mhz, but it's very sensitve to proper installation or even getting wet. More often than not it wasn't installed properly. Cable had to use coax to meet FCC signal leakage requirements. Which led to wider availablity of coax and as TVs started to be made with F connectors, coax then became the standard.
The ONT pretty much just emulates a high quality cable TV system. As I said above, it's 50-870 Mhz. the only real difference is that the conversion from fiber to coax is on the side of the home, rather than on a pole somewhere and feeding multiple homes from a 40-60dB feeder.
I made a little mistake above too, the design standard for TVs is 1mV, 1mV = 0dBmV. Anywhich way, 18dBmV would be enough to split 8 ways into 100' runs and still have an adequate signal level with RG-6. RG-59 should be fine with less splitting, shorter runs and/or some thought put into the splitting if the runs vary in length. For a new run, I'd use RG-6. For existing RG-59 in servicable condition, if the numbers are OK (that is a dB or 2 to spare), I wouldn't bother to replace it. |
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| reply to JohnA
said by JohnA:said by jeffs471:so the fact that verizon would have to open my cable box on the side of my house to disconnect all my rooms from adelphia's service would be ok All those rooms are wired to a splitter somewhere. Verizon need only run to that splitter, disconnect the cable feed, connect the FiOS feed to the splitter. They should never need to touch the cable box or drop, which is all that the cable co can justify as being their property. actually there is the cable from the street that goes into the box then inside the box the cable is split 6 times and six seperate cables leave the box to their respective rooms. Inside the box it isn't just your basic splitter you would buy at radio shack and the connectors coming off the splitters look huge not the typical connectors you would plug into the back of your tv. That is the only spot any of my cable is split and all the runs were done by gte when they installed the cable which is now owned by adelphia. |
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JohnAPremium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA |
Sorry, jeffs471, guess that was a non-answer. I've had satellite for too long, and all my splits are inside, even for runs that go back outside to go up to the attic.
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| said by JohnA:Sorry, jeffs471, guess that was a non-answer. I've had satellite for too long, and all my splits are inside, even for runs that go back outside to go up to the attic. oh no problem. I'm just trying to plan ahead. I have no flooring in my attic so I'm doubting that verizon or whoever is contracted to install fios tv will go up there and install new drops. This wouldn't be a problem if they could just use the existing rg6 cable. If anything I guess I could discuss with the installer the best option and if it came to it I would cut or disconnect the cabling from the adelphia box myself to prevent the installer from being charged with any wrong doing at a later time, I can't imagine how or why it would ever come up but just to be safe. |
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 malvado6I pee on Bushes.
join:2003-09-13
00001 | reply to sdgthy
TV's are designed for a minimum 1dBmV signal
But that would be the analog input on the tv. Isn't fios requiring boxes for all the outlets? If then, the boxes should tolerate a digital signal level as low as -10 and the signal received from the box would be more than adequate.
Or are they running a basic analog tier out of the ont's? if so, any rg 59 would be enough to handle that. |
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