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danf

@van.primus.ca

A warning for those switching to Primus

I used to be a Telus customer until April. At that time, I was creeping over 100GB and getting concurrent warnings, and then I switched over to Primus.

Well, this morning I received a disconnection notice from Primus out of the blue; no warnings, no phone calls, just a simple disconnection notice with 10 days warning that I need to return the modem or pay $175 for it.

In case you are thinking I download 400GB a month, I don't. I did check my bandwidth usage since I started using Primus and it is 109GB a month. I've had a couple months where I've been less than 100 and one where I reached 200GB (the next highest was 135GB.) For last month (October) my usage was 90GB.

Here's a copy of the message I got:

said by Primus Canada :
Dear Customer,

Please be advised that your DSL account with Primus Canada will be deactivated on November 14, 2005 due to abuse of Primus Canada’s DSL High Speed service, contrary to Primus’ Acceptable Use Policy (AUP). We set out the applicable excerpt from the AUP below. You can view the entire AUP at »www.primus.ca/en/legal/aup.htm.

said by Primus AUP :
6 System Abuse

6.a System abuse is defined as any use of Primus resources, which disrupts the normal use of the system or Internet services for others. Examples of system abuse include, but are not limited to, attempting to disrupt the sessions of other Internet users, consuming excessive amounts of CPU time, memory or disk space, or otherwise affecting the performance of Primus servers.

6.b. Primus will log instances of abuse or unusual use of system resources, including but not limited to those stated herein, and take action as outlined in this Policy.

6.c. You agree that if you subscribe for Internet Services, which does not include the use of Static IP Addresses (such as Dial-up Internet Access or DSL Internet Access with a modem), You are prohibited from using automated operations and / or server applications requiring connectivity. Primus Canada considers such actions abuse of Internet Services and as such Your account will be subject to disconnection or termination of Internet Service without notice.
6.d. You agree to only make use of Primus system resources while logged in. The sole exceptions to this policy are e-mail filters, which process and sort mail as it arrives.

Primus will send to you within the next 14 days a prepaid courier package to return the original modem provided by Primus Canada. If you do not return the modem, you will be charged $175.00. Please call 1-800-806-3273 or email customer.care@primus.ca with any questions regarding this matter.

Primus Canada
I am wondering if I am the only one that got this. I will be following up with the abuse department as tech support said they know nothing about it. The mail headers do indicate it came from Primus though.

I am thinking that the bandwidth might not be so unlimited as we would like to think.

Once I find out what's going on, I'll post back here.

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw

damn, they are my last hope, once 3web boots me off

that sucks, it really doesn't even mention bandwidth usauge in there, just excessive use of their servers, which at 1.5mbps, shouldn't really cause their servers too much trouble



evo25

@shawcable.net
reply to danf

What's to warn/ watch out for?

All ISPs have similiar terms and when you go over their "optimal" limits, it's 100% up to them to enforce or NOT to enforce their rights!


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
reply to danf

theres a similar thread going on in the broadband canada forum, some people think its might be a hoax and have had primus staff tell them it was spam.



danf

@van.primus.ca
reply to danf

I didn't notice that other thread.

When I called tech support they told me to contact the abuse department, which of course is closed. Now I have to wait until Monday.



goodtea

@van.primus.ca

I just started with primus
hope i wont get the same thing...


bb147

join:2005-04-05
BC, Canada
reply to danf

as long as you really aren't doing anything that conflicts with their AUP, i think you should be safe.

because on their primus.ca, they advertise as NO DOWNLOAD LIMITS!

I'm curious to see whats the end to this, definitely give abuse dept a call on monday, but I highly doubt theyd kick a customer off for downloading 100gb per month.



danf

@van.primus.ca
reply to danf

Well, I called the customer service this time and not the tech support, and they asked me to contact them with the message by email.

The customer service representative looked back to August at my usage with the help of a tech support guy and they did not find anything "unusual" that I could have done to cause me to get this notice. She also pointed out that the AUP specifies that after you get one warning you will get a disconnection notice. She did not understand why I received a disconnection notice without a warning beforehand (I don't understand this either.)

So I fired off more emails and now I have to wait until Monday when the supervisors/managers or something are back to answer some questions.

Bleh, I'll post in here again (hopefully they actually answer my email on Monday) when I find out what's going on. The thought of not having internet is giving me withdrawal symptoms already.


NickDellhall

join:2004-08-23
Vancouver, BC

A possibility is that you have a virus / worm on your system sending out spam mails? I had that once and Telus sent me a warning / phone call. But they didn't disconnect me.

Nick


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to danf

if it were a hoax, it could also be someone left it so if you send a message to a certain email address, it forwards to a bunch of primus email address, a listbot or something maybe.

i guess we'll now on or after the 14th if it was a hoax or not.



danf

@telus.net
reply to danf

Well I did forward that mail off, but I haven't heard anything back. I'm going to phone them on my lunch break.

After looking around for ISPs the only one that is worthwhile is Telus (with the server plan & 80GB monthly.) Most times I might be slightly over that, but on my other account I haven't gotten any warnings in months.

I'll post back after I call Primus. I hope they know something this time... I need to set up another ISP and with Telus being on strike I don't think it'll happen quickly if Primus does disconnect me.



danf

@telus.net
reply to danf

Well, after 15 minutes of wait and 50 minutes on the phone, I am still no further ahead. On a side note, Primus' customer service absolutely sucks. That number in the warning letter got me to a long distance support team. Then they transferred me to the cell phone team. THEN they finally sent me to tech support (which isn't exactly who I wanted to talk to, but hey.) I hate to say this, but Telus' support in my experience was better (although at the time I thought they were the worst on the planet... heh. )

The tech support team looked at my usage and noticed that my connection and noticed it's being used all the time (duh, my 3 computers are on all the time, but they aren't necessarily downloading stuff.) They looked at my usage and commented the upload is unusually high (I found bittorrent running in one of the detached screens... forget to turn it off for like a week... oopsie .) That aside, the manager came over and insisted I was infected with malware and viruses, even though I told them directly several times that I use three computer running linux with firefox, and all of them are NAT'ed, and that I had been using bittorrent. I did check for rootkits and came up blank. (Surprise, surprise.)

The tech support manager then deemed it to be the fault of the customer service team and I was then transferred over there. The customer service agent I got was nice, and clearly frustrated over something that is the tech departments issue as they have no access to any usage or account records other than billing. So she dug up some material on how to deal with this and it recommended contacting the abuse department (which by the way, we can't call directly) via email asking for clarification instead of transferring me back to the tech team (as it IS their responsibility.)

I am SO not impressed with the tech support team. I wonder how many people on that tech support team even know how to install a NIC.

So again, I'm waiting for mail from abuse (this time I noticed I was supposed to send it to another address and did. Maybe I'll get a response back now.) I still haven't gotten email back from the customer service team (presumably because they have no idea what's going on.

This is turning out to be a big headache, and from the overall impression I've been getting from talking to these reps is that uploads are quite limited.

Aaaargh.



danf

@telus.net
reply to danf

I forgot to mention, I did ask them directly if I was uploading too much, as that is something I can change. They still couldn't answer me.


bb147

join:2005-04-05
BC, Canada
reply to danf

i bet they don't even have a ABUSE team

that's where the problem is.


cruix

join:2002-04-07
Vancouver, BC
reply to danf

I got a call from someone in Primus Network Security today.

She said I have about 100 hours of usage in September and that is considered abuse of the unlimited usage plan.

100 hours???? WHAT??? that's 3 hours a day.

Guys, I really don't know what's going on with Primus.



goodtea

@shawcable.net
reply to bb147

i think what's important for you is the $170 fine.
If they promise, they wont give u a fine for that.
then u dont even have to worry anything


cruix

join:2002-04-07
Vancouver, BC

try losing internet access. still think we don't have to worry?



danf

@van.primus.ca
reply to danf

cruix: are you sure that's hours and not bandwidth (ie. 100GB) as that's what Telus's automessage system is set at. On Telus, if you go over 100GB you immediately get sent an email.


tumble

join:2005-03-31
Vancouver, BC
reply to danf

In case you didnt read the other thread, the official story from primus is that it is spam email, and that if they were going to disconnect anyone they would call you first to explain the situation, not send out a generic email.


cruix

join:2002-04-07
Vancouver, BC
reply to danf

yes, it is 100 HOURS. not GBs. that's what makes it all so bizzare. and this is a bonafide person working at Primus. a phone call which I happned to miss. Look forward to speaking to her tomorrow and then maybe post the results/contact info with her permission.



danf

@van.primus.ca
reply to danf

tumble: I have contacted Primus at least a half a dozen times and not even once did they even *hint* at the possibility of the message being spam.


NickDellhall

join:2004-08-23
Vancouver, BC

1 edit
reply to danf

danf: I agree that many (telus) tech support (not all!) at these call centers really hav no clue on what they are talking about.

If you have a high upload usage due to BT, they always attribute that to the first cause of connection problem / issues. I was even once told that the tech guy could see 'many other computers attempting to connect to my connection'... despite the fact that the modem was OFF. Plus, if he was indeed seeing that, it seems that he has contracted a breach of security by bypassing my firewall etc (like he could in the first place...)

I really HATE it when I get someone like that... it really is a luck of the draw.

On the other hand, techs that get sent out my places are at least much more knowledgable and respectful.


xdotnet

join:2003-11-12
reply to cruix

quote:
I got a call from someone in Primus Network Security today.

She said I have about 100 hours of usage in September and that is considered abuse of the unlimited usage plan.

100 hours???? WHAT??? that's 3 hours a day.

Guys, I really don't know what's going on with Primus.

i dunno about you guys, but i think telus is behind all these bandwidth overusage letters/calls.. after all, primus is using telus' adsl ports.

Mac Write

join:2004-10-13
New Westminster, BC
reply to danf

Primus goes through Uniserve. They use all their own equipment, then Telus phone lines to your home/office.


sered

join:2005-08-24
reply to danf

Same thing happend to me lol
SO using shaw right now just in a case and thinking seriously going back to telus 2.5
Too bad the companies are so unreliable especially here on West coast.



erik124

@telus.net
reply to NickDellhall

I was even once told that the tech guy could see 'many other computers attempting to connect to my connection'... despite the fact that the modem was OFF. Plus, if he was indeed seeing that, it seems that he has contracted a breach of security by bypassing my firewall etc (like he could in the first place...)
Actually that is currently a problem with Bittorrent. After you have shut off your Bittorrent client, and even after you have turned off your modem, you will continue to see incoming Bittorrent connection attempts to your IP address for up to 24 hours. I don't know why - it could be some trackers or some clients are not following a sensible policy of retiring dead links, or it could be ongoing tracking attempts by nefarious monitoring organizations.

tumble

join:2005-03-31
Vancouver, BC
reply to danf

said by danf :

tumble: I have contacted Primus at least a half a dozen times and not even once did they even *hint* at the possibility of the message being spam.
Well my conversation with customer service was pretty quick, I asked them if I was being canned and they said no, that there were no notes under my account saying I was being suspended, and if I were they would definitely know and would have called me up to warn me first. Then they transfered me over to tech support to double check, spoke to the tech, showed him the email, and he said it was clearly spam and that it wasn't the first time they came across such an email.

sered

join:2005-08-24

Thats what they told me too in 3 departments
4 days later i got phone call saying my internet is gonna be suspended because i downloaded over 110gb in september.I asked him well everyone in primus is saying its unlimited,do you know what that means ? Silence ...Then he told me someone will contact me (they didnt.So i called telus,explained my problem they offered me enhanced service 80gb max download (thats still better then 50 gb shaw) so i took it.I just wish i live somewhere else in regards to ISP's because they are acting so stupid.I know they are paying for the bw but why almost everyone else in the world got unlimited download + 100000 bonuses when you sign up with them.SO really the best what you can get is TELUS (if you download too much) or shaw,but whats 50gb on 7mbit line? its nothing . ....just my 2 cents


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to danf

i thought it was a 60gig cap for the enhanced package. At least thats what they print.

I don't thikn any of us have figured out at what point they send out the threats (100gigs maybe).

but if its a choice between 7pmbs and a 50 gig cap (which in alot of areas can be pushed further) or 2.5mpbs and a 60gig cap. I dunno.. 10 gig difference, it isn't that much, and telus is so god damn slow. The only thing they had going for them was unlimited bandwidth and no p2p throttling. Now all they have is no p2p throttling, and there slow, unless you live in metro vancouver where cable sux, telus is becoming obscelete.


sered

join:2005-08-24

yes,you are right ...its 60gb but it can be pushed further
but its cheaper,and consistent,i get 260kb/s doesnt matter what time i do connect.Shaw is faster but the speed isnt consistent,its more expansive and 50gb cap.
IMO Telus is winner.The only good thing what i do like about shaw is top notch customer service.