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microserf
@cgocable.net
 from:
Vvian Kalyss 
| Re: Bandwith throttling poor way to deal with P2P said by tkjunkmail :
While Rogers has the right and duty to block illegal P2P activity on its system... Bullshit.
They're trying to do an end run around the industry classification they've fought tooth and nail to attain. They're using network quality as a mantra for anything they disagree with. Check out C-60, section 31 for clarification of the legal protections they bought on their shopping trip to Ottawa (it isn't law just yet).
Common carrier = don't touch my shit, just transport it. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: Bandwith throttling poor way to deal with P2P I think you'll find that Canada does NOT have "common carrier" status, but the courts have in general granted the general concept that they are just a carrier.
Rogers has the duty and right to deal with users who are reported to them as having broken their terms of service which include using it for illegal activity. Rogers does not, even under their terms of service have the right to be the police, judge, jury and executioner.
Now, remember too that downloading copyright music has not been found to be illegal under Canadian copyright law.
Caps didn't work because their measuring tool is basically flawed, routinely contributing consumption to people whose computers have been off, and not charging bandwidth to people who've gone way over the preset hard caps.
Softcaps didn't work because they took the "you're downloading too much" "How much can I download" "Less" stance and adding 3 strikes and you're out when they can't even define the strike zone!
The reason for throttling is simple ... Rogers Digital Phone ... which is not VoIP, but in fact a Packet Data system sharing the last mile through the HFE nodes. P2P and gaming clog up the nodes which has produced horrible outbound voice quality issues. Rogers has too much invested in Digital Phone to back away from it and Throttling is how they're trying to keep things passable for DPS subscribers. Not that I can understand why anyone would use a company notorious for its service like negative optioning and cable outages for phone service. Moreover, it doesn't save most Bell subscribers much money at all. For me, it would be under $1 per month. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Bandwith throttling poor way to deal with P2P But every ISP has the right to enforce TOS. And almost every ISP(certainly every cable company) prohibits running servers. And P2P apps are almost always acting as servers in their default config. Therefore an ISP can disconnect P2P users at will. Of course they don't because they don't want to lose paying customers in large numbers. But if they disconnected a few thousand and advertised the fact, the rest would fall in line quickly.
That way they don't have to get involved in proving copyright issues and what users are downloading. The mere use of P2P is grounds for disconnection.
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microserf
@cgocable.net
| Re: Bandwith throttling poor way to deal with P2P said by tkjunkmail :
That way they don't have to get involved in proving copyright issues and what users are downloading. They're not involved now, nor will they be in the future (if their lobby groups and current legal position are maintained).
Do you really want to start splitting hairs on what constitutes a server?  | |
| | | jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY
| I wonder how this will work WRT BT though. BT is one of the more legitimate P2P apps, in fact it is used or will be used by several large commercial entities - Blizzard is one for it's WoW patches.
Being known for degrading the performance of parts of one of the most popular MMORPG's is not really a good selling point for an ISP.
Not to mention, more software distributors are following the Linux distros, Opera for instance is working on going Bittorrent for updates from v9 IIRC.
And we've seen various DRMed Movie rental services planning on using Bittorrent for their services.
Overall, I think you can shape Guntella, Edonky, Fasttrack, whatever, but trying to shape Bittorrent is getting near shapeing FTP or HTTP file transfers which will be pretty sticky soon if not already for even the most legit users.
Not to mention, there is already filesharing that uses SSL HTTP file transfers - shaping that would likely impact *LOTS* of legitimate uses... | |
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microserf
@cgocable.net
| said by sbrook :I think you'll find that Canada does NOT have "common carrier" status, but the courts have in general granted the general concept that they are just a carrier. Same thing. Read C-60 to see how the concept has been enshrined.
said by sbrook :Rogers has the duty and right to deal with users who are reported to them as having broken their terms of service which include using it for illegal activity. I absolutely agree. This has nothing to do with with the verbal diarrhea above and dovetails nicely with how Canadian courts have ruled on the issue. Again, C-60 codifies this concept: notice-and-notice.
said by sbrook :... Rogers Digital Phone ... Good call. Might very well be. | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by microserf :said by tkjunkmail :
While Rogers has the right and duty to block illegal P2P activity on its system... Bullshit. An ISP has the right to set the terms of the service as they see fit. Whether they have the "duty" is whole other discussion, I believe that if you give internet accesss, you should give full access and not just partial.
Nevertheless, an ISP has the right to do whatever they please with their service, and if you don't agree with their terms, they probably won't mind at all if you move to a different ISP.
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George W. Bush on Clinton going into Kosovo, 1999: “I think it’s also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
Right. We're still waiting for that Mr. Bush.... | |
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microserf
@cgocable.net
| Re: Bandwith throttling poor way to deal with P2P said by maartena :An ISP has the right to set the terms of the service as they see fit. To a point. You can't have your blanket legal indemnity and OCD too.
said by maartena :...an ISP has the right to do whatever they please with their service... Within the law. Privacy is onerous and regulation an unforgiving matron. | |
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