US Cable Support > RCN > Bit Torrent Uploads Being Disconnected

reply to phundercover

Re: Bit Torrent Uploads Being Disconnected

Hi mmajN, that's a very interesting conversation you had.

My recent chasers to the Help Desk kept on being returned, probably because they quoted the case number in the header, so I sent it again without it and I got an acknowledgement. The last e-mail I sent pointed out that bit torrenting involved uploading when not downloading and asked them once again whether, given my definition of what BT was, were they taking any action to block BT.

I'm still working on my letter to the CTO and I've made a note to ask about "not supporting P2P applications" as this is a (deliberately?) ambiguous statement.

I've just jumped on a torrent at dime; it's got 171 seeds and after 50 minutes I am connected to one!! But as we all know RCN are not blocking or limiting BT traffic and there isn't a problem

Lets all keep complaining.

reply to phundercover
During the past few weeks RCN has diligently worked to optimize the performance of our network for our customers. RCN proactively manages it's network to ensure both service availability and performance are maximized. In order to support the recently launched new speed initiatives and future product initiatives we have completed some tuning specifics surrounding the traffic on our network.

The RCN network is built to provide industry leading downstream performance for the typical cable modem customer. Since most cable modem traffic is downstream, RCN has focused on improving that part of our product. As we focus our priorities on higher speed tiers, we have addressed the priority of outbound P2P data. Outbound P2P traffic has been prioritized to ensure optimum service levels on both the downstream and upstream data paths for RCN users. This prioritization will not have any impact on your ability to download data using the more popular peer 2 peer programs, however transmissions without downloading or "seeding" of data will be de-prioritized.

RCN's policy is not to infringe on our customers' use of the peer 2 peer applications to download data, but given the high upstream configurations of faster tier products, we intend to manage the manner in which customers are seeding outside of our network.

Thank you for your understanding
--
Jason Nealis, Director, Operations RCN

Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd post a followup to the statement above to clear some of the confusion. The majority of you are indeed very technical in nature are probably want the technical specifics of what is being done and not necessary the statement above.

As a group, yes the amount of bandwidth being sent off-net as it relates to P2P is being slightly managed. Because of the high amount of upstream capacity and forthcoming product upgrades we really had to invoke some changes.

Honestly, Because of the default installation behavior of P2P programs and how after installation most users don't even know they are sharing files it presents a problem.

From some metrics we were seeing upstreams with 90% of overall traffic as P2P.
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Jason Nealis, Director, Operations RCN

reply to rcnman
Jason, thank you for your reply. At least the prevarication of the last 6-8 weeks is over. As you will have gathered from this forum the result (intentional or otherwise) of the de-prioritization of seeding traffic has effectively stopped users from uploading while not downloading. Surely a better balance can be achieved between uploading and downloading without seriously adversely the improvements you wish to make. The words 'sledgehammer' and 'nut' spring to mind.
Regards, Steve

reply to rcnman
Jason, to follow up on your 'clarification' was reducing the upload speed considered as an alternative, and why has it taken RCN so long to come clean?

reply to phundercover
phundercover,

I agree, and being honest again We are really awaiting a OS release that will give us more knobs and tweaks then what we have now. Some forthcoming product enhancements moved up the schedule, but soon we will have a OS release that will allow us to manage this on a CMTS basis and not have to group it all into one bucket.

Noting the sledghammer / nutt approach we really really backed off what was first implemented, I think it was noted in this thread when the improvement was noticed.

I know this isn't optimal at the least for those of you who really like the seeding and stats, but there is advantages as we do have some ability to enhance the performance of P2P from RCN USER to RCN USER.

--
Jason Nealis, Director, Operations RCN

reply to phundercover

reply to phundercover

reply to nozzer

I also limit my upload speeds - just in case it affects my wife's web surfing (and I would be in serious trouble then!).

What are the "quiet" times when we may be able to initiate a seed?

Thanks, Steve

reply to phundercover
rcnman - thanks immensely for acknowledging the network change, as it really has been vexing some of us to no end. that said, i haven't noticed more than one or so peer connect while seeding even during early morning hours (1am-7am) in NYC. upon waking up and checking a sample linux torrent (with high peer connects) i downloaded, i believe i only noted a 1 or 2 MB upload, and most of that was likely due to the DHT bandwidth counted in the total. this was repeated for days to the same effect.

i really hope a better compromise will occur soon, as this inability is seriously urging me to look into other network options in my area.

reply to phundercover

reply to mmajN

reply to rcnman
Thank you for your comments on this issue Jason.

I think "I'd be willing to bet a large percentage of people don't even know they are sharing" is not an overstatement for P2P in general, but cannot be generalized for torrents as well. I have yet to see the torrent protocol used in any malware programs, and people who use torrents quite often understand the difference between download/upload and maintaining a ratio on the torrent, which is what torrents rely on: peers uploading and supporting the swarm.

Oh and I am very anxious to hear about those new product offerings you mentioned. Is there a time frame that we should expect these to be unveiled in? Spring 2006?

reply to phundercover
Jason,

Thank you for joining this discussion. I think you can see, from the responses to your posts thus far, that we're a pretty reasonable (if frustrated) bunch.

That said, I want to echo El Scorcho by saying that even with a connection that's timed and highly limited, I am unable to connect to peers for seeding at any time of the day or night. Like El Scorcho, I'm also in the NYC area. Maybe with the density of the population here there's no "off-peak" in New York?

This discussion began in December related to problems that some of us began experiencing in November. Now it's nearly February. RCN has has taken a long time to declare its policy and plans; now it would be helpful if we could discuss ways to practically, and in a timely manner, resolve the upload and peer connection issues.

With you and RCN now involved in the conversation, I hope that we can work together to find a solution that's satisfactory to all. So, please tell us: what can we do on our ends to make this work, and what is RCN doing on its end to resolve the issues quickly? How can we work together with RCN to make useful changes? When will the changes to the OS that you mentioned be implemented, and what is being done about the problem in the meantime?

Let's fix this, ok? And not just talk about why it's broken.

Again, thanks for your participation.

John

reply to rcnman
Jason,
I applaud yours, and your companies honesty, and I agree wholeheartedly with the approach you are taking. I can also understand why you can't make public statements in the early days of testing.

For those dissenters - do you think you would ever see any other ISP being this honest? Certainly not ComCast - who cut people off for "overuse" but won't even reveal what their parameters are for "overuse". And as for Verizon - they still won't even acknowledge their "anti-spam" stupidity in December 2004 by blocking entire IP blocks of countries as insignicant to do business with as the UK.

Now, care to talk about when we're going to see the 20/2 configurations on our modems?

noz

reply to dijitaal

reply to nozzer

said by nozzer:

Now, care to talk about when we're going to see the 20/2 configurations on our modems?
noz

reply to phundercover
Hey RCNMan...

Is there any way you can come to Canada and get our ISPs to come clean on their processes??? Canadian ISP Execs rather not comment, and lie about how they are dealing with issues rather than come out right with the news!
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