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rcnman
Jason Nealis
Premium Member
join:2003-05-02
Herndon, VA

rcnman to jpjacob

Premium Member

to jpjacob

Re: Bit Torrent Uploads Being Disconnected

said by jpjacob:

Right now I can't connect to others. This has been going on since November. Speed means nothing in a conversation where the connection isn't happening. What's being done to fix this? I'm not interested in software upgrades you can't talk about. Tell me what RCN is doing to resolve my problem now.

John
Sticking with the honesty bit, The shaping will exist in some form or the other long term. The sheer amount of P2P traffic (mostly unknown to the average user) is unreal. In order to ensure the health of the product and the ability to handle enhancements it has to be addressed. I don't expect you to like that answer in one bit, but in the long run would you not get upset if everyone on the network was seeding, and the upstream was SO clogged that all your downstream traffic was affected? What if you couldn't ACK your packets ?

You can reply saying RCN should augment it's network to handle the load, it's not the users problem. But in the long run this is a business and RCN is a little dog in a big fight.. We can't go out and get OC-192's in order to be the best feeder to all the other networks of P2P traffic, it's silly to think we can.

I know it's a religious issue when you start deciding which packets mean more.. But in the long run, is worth more to you that someone you don't know in Fiji can access your seed? Or that you can download the content you want at full throttle?
rcnman

1 edit

rcnman

Premium Member

Click for full size
I think if you look at this graph it may present things a little clearer. This is a breakdown of upstream traffic within a segment of RCN's Cable Modem Network..

Guess what the yellow is.. Then keep in mind most likely 80% of the cable modems within this slice don't even know they are sending files upstream via P2P.

Also, The traffic classified as other.. That's more then likely P2P traffic also

-Jason
pilotsr
join:2002-08-08
Twentynine Palms, CA

pilotsr

Member

Why is it though that no one really seemed to have a complaint about download or upload speed and now you have a 12 page thread going on about the bandwidth throttling problems?
pilotsr

pilotsr

Member

Also note that news groups aren't really a factor on the network anymore, oh wait you took that away from us as well. And wasn't that in network traffic?

jpjacob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-02
New York, NY

jpjacob to rcnman

Premium Member

to rcnman
Jason,

Thanks for your response, but you're either missing or evading my point.

Yes, the upload matters to me as much as, if not more than, the download. That's why I'm using BT software and not FTP or newsgroups. The exchange IS important.

I don't care about full throttle anything. All I want is to be able to connect in both directions without interference.

To do that I'm willing to make concessions; to limit my up and download speeds or to upload only after midnight.

But right now I have no upstream at all.

It's censorship, and it's pissing me off.

John
jpjacob

jpjacob to rcnman

Premium Member

to rcnman
Jason,

Anyone can draw a chart. But again, you're missing the point of this discussion. We are the 20% who do care about the uploads.

Are you suggesting that those who care about their upload stream should consider finding another provider? Or can we get some RCN network engineers involved with this discussion?

John
AndyD2k
join:2003-01-10
New York, NY

AndyD2k to jpjacob

Member

to jpjacob
said by jpjacob:

Jason,

Thanks for your response, but you're either missing or evading my point.

Yes, the upload matters to me as much as, if not more than, the download. That's why I'm using BT software and not FTP or newsgroups. The exchange IS important.

I don't care about full throttle anything. All I want is to be able to connect in both directions without interference.

To do that I'm willing to make concessions; to limit my up and download speeds or to upload only after midnight.

But right now I have no upstream at all.

It's censorship, and it's pissing me off.

John
I agree. I'm fine with bandwidth throttling but to refuse almost all connections is a bit extreme.

rcnman
Jason Nealis
Premium Member
join:2003-05-02
Herndon, VA

rcnman to pilotsr

Premium Member

to pilotsr
said by pilotsr:

Also note that news groups aren't really a factor on the network anymore, oh wait you took that away from us as well. And wasn't that in network traffic?
No, thats becauase our newsserver blew up and we had to launch a deal with GigaNews..
rcnman

rcnman to AndyD2k

Premium Member

to AndyD2k
said by AndyD2k:
said by jpjacob:

I agree. I'm fine with bandwidth throttling but to refuse almost all connections is a bit extreme.
Again, with the new release we will have the abiilty to profile on a per CMTS basis and hopefully a per application basis.
rcnman

rcnman to jpjacob

Premium Member

to jpjacob
said by jpjacob:

Jason,

Anyone can draw a chart. But again, you're missing the point of this discussion. We are the 20% who do care about the uploads.

Eh, You think I drew that chart? Come on... Thats a little extreme.. And besides that, my graphing skills are terrible..

moreupstream
@c3-0.smt-ubr1.atw-sm

moreupstream to phundercover

Anon

to phundercover
I'm glad to see something is being done. I use my upstream for business purposes and am happy to see some of the congestion go...

rcnman
Jason Nealis
Premium Member
join:2003-05-02
Herndon, VA

rcnman to phundercover

Premium Member

to phundercover
As we move forward I believe I have laid out pretty much everything around the implementation of the network tuning. I completely understand those of you who are religiously against it and those voiced opinions are without a doubt noted. Additionally, I appreciate the ones who understand the circumstances around why we have to do it.

I again apologize for it getting to this point before the specifics of the project were discussed with all of you.

As things progress and as we get closers to the new firmware (end of Q1) I will keep you up to date with the specifics of the implementation.

Feel free to reach out to myself, Joe or Bryan at anytime via PM.

-Jason Nealis

mmajN
@c3-0.avec-ubr16.nyr-

mmajN

Anon

Jason,

It's an inaccurate characterization: "religiously against it". Your solution to RCN's problem is seriously flawed. You are assuming that current p2p traffic is the least valuable and most expensive way your users are utilizing their upstream bandwidth, rather than simply acknowledging that you are offering more upstream bandwidth than you can afford. Your current method of dealing with this will fall apart when 1) p2p apps change the way the way they work so you will need to change the way you block or 2) your customers who are now not tech-savvy enough to want to use P2P realize its benefits and demand it or 3) new innovative band-width-hungry apps become popular.

And it is NOT good -- to use your terms -- to be able to have a faster pipe to other RCN customers at the expense of connecting to someone from Fiji. This is not the AOL network we are buying into; it is the Internet.

The solution is for you to throttle everyone's upstream (at peak times), and sell higher upstream for those who need it. You should be experimenting with finding out what those numbers should be. (What times should you throttle how much to have a minimum impact on your users and maximum impact on fixing your problems, and at what price point should you sell non-throttling.)

Jason, you do win a few points for speaking with us in an open manner here, but you also admitted that RCN was sitting on this for weeks while you debated whether to continue to lie to your customers. In other words, RCN hasn't won back our trust yet.

I'd like to hear why you think my proposal isn't better than your actions. Thanks again for your consideration.

jpjacob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-02
New York, NY

jpjacob to rcnman

Premium Member

to rcnman
said by rcnman:

Feel free to reach out to myself, Joe or Bryan at anytime via PM.

-Jason Nealis
And with that he rode off into the sunset...

... Leaving us exactly where we were before his arrival.
dijitaal
join:2005-12-19
New York, NY

1 edit

dijitaal to phundercover

Member

to phundercover
According to that graph, with the P2P+other combined being around 200,000,000 bits/second, the whole RCN network is doing about 23.8megabytes per second outbound traffic. A 100mbit connection is 12.5megabytes per second, so RCN is doing only about 200mbit per second outbound traffic.

For a little price comparison, server hosting companies offer 100mbit unmetered bandwidth servers (12.5mb/s sustained) for approximately 900-1000$/month.

With RCN making ~$50 off each person using Mach5/10, they should really be able to afford 200mbit upstream (a $2000 link) for their users.

Either that or I'm totally missing something ....

rcnman
Jason Nealis
Premium Member
join:2003-05-02
Herndon, VA

rcnman

Premium Member

said by dijitaal:

According to that graph, with the P2P+other combined being around 200,000,000 bits/second, the whole RCN network is doing about 23.8megabytes per second outbound traffic. A 100mbit connection is 12.5megabytes per second, so RCN is doing only about 200mbit per second outbound traffic.

For a little price comparison, server hosting companies offer 100mbit unmetered bandwidth servers (12.5mb/s sustained) for approximately 900-1000$/month.

With RCN making ~$50 off each person using Mach5/10, they should really be able to afford 200mbit upstream (a $2000 link) for their users.

Either that or I'm totally missing something ....
It's not about affording the upstream, we can go get transit all day long. We are bound to the limits of the upstreams of the cable plant.
pilotsr
join:2002-08-08
Twentynine Palms, CA

pilotsr to phundercover

Member

to phundercover
Jason, I have a fair question. Its unofficially official from past threads on here that you guys are coming out with a new speed tier, chances of that being 20/2. I'd be willing to pay a few dollars a month extra for that higher upstream as long as it was unrestricted. Isn't there a way you could offer a special unrestricted tier for your high end users? I mean can you not tell that after a 13 page thread that you have a bunch of unhappy customers in the sense that many of us have been with RCN for years, through better and worse and have stuck it out cause we like your product and service? Its just ashame that it has to come down to this when there has to be a better resolution for all.

OR...

You had stated that you could control the "knobs" which must be technical jargon to certain CMTS? Pardon my ignorance when it comes to this but I have no idea of the tech specs, but is there a way that you could also control it per user say via an individuals modem?

It sounds like this .01% of your customer base is somewhat tech savvy if they are the ones wanting seeding stats. It also sounds like we are being punished for the rest of the others ignorance to the fact that many people probably do not realize they have P2P apps running on start up utilizing and saturating their bandwidth causing trouble for others.

Surely a reasonable outcome can be met for both us "complainers" and you guys on the inside, please?

youcrybabies
@adelphia.net

youcrybabies

Anon

You guys kill me, Is seeding a extension of your "crank" please get over it, What do you really get out of seeding your favorite porn movie or warez. Do you really think it's up to RCN to be the main contributor to the P2P network?

They are giving you the ability to suck down your porn , your warez , your MP3's and all the other dirty pictures you want so be happy and stop complaining that you can't send that software to people in Thailand and Egypt.

You guys kill me...
pilotsr
join:2002-08-08
Twentynine Palms, CA

pilotsr

Member

Go suck the farts out of a dead cows ass, it has nothing to do with seeding rights with me, but the fact that i'm paying for a now limited service. You're probably not even on the RCN network.

cryingpilot
@adelphia.net

cryingpilot

Anon

Limited Service? ROFL, please.. Are you really really that concerned that oomboofu in South Africa can't get download your latest copy of AirTight? Seriously though.. If you have any idea about the restrictions of your SHARED cable connection you would understand that if they didn't step in and do something. Your upstream would become saturated and that completely affects your downstream.

If they didn't do anything, you would be in this same forum complaining that your paying for X amount of downstream and your not getting it. So if they then came to you and said.. Sorry sir, you have some very heavy seeders on your cable upstream and we can't do anything because it matters more that they be able to send copies of AirTight to Africa/ Asia / NJ and Iraq.

You are just mad that mom and dad have stepped in and put in a restriction you don't like.. You might not ever do what they ask you not to do.. but the fact that you can't just kills you.

Be thankful, because I'm on a network I can't get off of, And I'm limited in both fashions.. it SUCKS.. Be happy that you have a provider that is upfront with you and listens...
pilotsr
join:2002-08-08
Twentynine Palms, CA

pilotsr to phundercover

Member

to phundercover
Yes limited service, right now I have a few torrents in queue and many with over 50+ peers, been waiting an hour now and still haven't connected to any peers. This is just ridiculous as pre-throttling days connections were almost instantaneous. Again this has nothing to do with seed stats but rather just connecting to damn peers in order to download something.

adimitri
join:2004-10-11
Oakland Gardens, NY

adimitri to phundercover

Member

to phundercover
*puts on flame proof suit*

Well on the bright side, the RCN forum hasn't seen this much action in almost 6+ months

rcnman
Jason Nealis
Premium Member
join:2003-05-02
Herndon, VA

rcnman to pilotsr

Premium Member

to pilotsr
said by pilotsr:

Yes limited service, right now I have a few torrents in queue and many with over 50+ peers, been waiting an hour now and still haven't connected to any peers. This is just ridiculous as pre-throttling days connections were almost instantaneous. Again this has nothing to do with seed stats but rather just connecting to damn peers in order to download something.
Your ability to make connection outbound and download has not been touched. There are no rules / restrictions or anything configured on the system to affect your downstream ability...
LocutusBorg
Premium Member
join:2005-12-25
Revere, MA

2 edits

LocutusBorg

Premium Member

said by rcnman:

said by pilotsr:

Your ability to make connection outbound and download has not been touched. There are no rules / restrictions or anything configured on the system to affect your downstream ability...
Thats funny because now i cannot get an outbound connection at all. Also Azureus is telling me i am firewalled so it has to be on your end.
RCN is blocking my ports i just know it.
i have

reset modem and router
changed ports 17 times

this is really pissing me off. Its been almost 2 months now.
You guys have got to fix it or stop "tweaking the network"
ie: blocking ports, throttleing, ect
we are stasrting to thing you are telling stories
if i wanted that i would go to the library and check out a book marked "FICTION"
that is waht i am getting here
i am stopping short of calling you a liar but soon i will

rcnman
Jason Nealis
Premium Member
join:2003-05-02
Herndon, VA

rcnman

Premium Member

MSG your MACaddr to Joe and he will take a look, I assure you other then outbound P2P seeding type traffic nothing else has been or will be touched.
pilotsr
join:2002-08-08
Twentynine Palms, CA

pilotsr to LocutusBorg

Member

to LocutusBorg
Well at least I have some consolation in the fact that I am not the only one experiencing these new "issues."
LocutusBorg
Premium Member
join:2005-12-25
Revere, MA

LocutusBorg to rcnman

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to rcnman
done
thanks for the quick reply
pilotsr
join:2002-08-08
Twentynine Palms, CA

pilotsr

Member

Locutus, please keep us informed if you get any where with that problem as I am curious to the fact that we both seem to have the same issues and are in different markets.
LocutusBorg
Premium Member
join:2005-12-25
Revere, MA

LocutusBorg to rcnman

Premium Member

to rcnman
said by rcnman:

MSG your MACaddr to Joe and he will take a look, I assure you other then outbound P2P seeding type traffic nothing else has been or will be touched.
thats the thing
my outbound is not working at all
please get rid of you so called"FIX"
it is not working

to fall back to a cliche`
"If its not broke,dont fix it"
WHY did you mess with tweaks when everthing was working fine?
LocutusBorg

LocutusBorg to pilotsr

Premium Member

to pilotsr
said by pilotsr:

Locutus, please keep us informed if you get any where with that problem as I am curious to the fact that we both seem to have the same issues and are in different markets.
ill keep you up to date
i just know that we are being lied to
they need to come clean so we can all move to another ISP
i would rather be throttled than blocked and lied to about it