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Forums » Still Paying for the Spanish American War » Once a tax...
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JeedaiKnight
0verthinking
Premium
join:2002-03-15
Portland, OR

Once a tax...

always a tax. Give the mouse a cookie...and he'll want a glass of milk. :p
--
www.andycatts.blogspot.com

maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: Once a tax...

You're absolutely right. In the country I grew up in they announced a 25 cent (in dutch guilders, about $0.12) increase on the fuel prices over a period of 10 years after which it would be taken away. The deal was that in those 10 years, drastic improvements for the freeway system would be paid for. That happenend, new freeways were opened up, existing ones were widened, tunnels and bridges were built, etc, etc.

But the 10 years were over in 2002 or so, and did they give back the 25 cents? Of course not! Now they had gotten so used to the extra income in the books - whether they had more freeway expansion plans or not - and the fuel prices never dropped the extra 25 cents.

And with fuel prices averaging between $5 and $6 per gallon (yeah, you Americans have no idea how CHEAP fuel is here), the extra 25 cents (now about 0.10 Eurocents) would have been a very welcome relief for drivers..... BUT they just had to keep that money in their pockets.

Its the same in every country. Once they instate a tax, its gonna take a lot of effort to cancel the tax, if ever cancelled at all.....
--
The Republican Party is a party of BAD ideas. The Democratic Party is a party of NO ideas. Every now and then a Republican stands up in congress and says: "I got a really BAD idea!", to which a Democrat reponds with: "And I can make it shittier!"

NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX

Re: Once a tax...

Your gas prices are a result of Taxes not market conditions. Take away the taxes and we pay more.
--
FIOS chat »www.fioschat.com

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

said by maartena See Profile :

(yeah, you Americans have no idea how CHEAP fuel is here)
You seem to be saying this as if its a bad thing. Is it wrong to want a cheap, stable, non-terrorist supporting source of fuel?
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US

Re: Once a tax...

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by maartena See Profile :

(yeah, you Americans have no idea how CHEAP fuel is here)
You seem to be saying this as if its a bad thing. Is it wrong to want a cheap, stable, non-terrorist supporting source of fuel?
Umm, yes, it is wrong to want a not-so-cheap oil, supporting not only the crazy rich oil industry but totalitarian, supressive, medieval-age styled emirates and half-retarded princesses' dictatorships, especially licking their Arab @sses by our lunatic and/or corrupt Presidents and calling them friends of us.

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

Write your congresscritter

Don't want to be taxed for everything, then write your congressperson and complain about all the nickel and dime taxes the government passed and never revoked. That effort is called tax simplification. And here is a web site that can help you complain to Congress about tax reform:
»www.business.com/directory/accou···_reform/
--
--
Join Red Room Forum
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TheWickerMan

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

Re: Write your congresscritter

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Don't want to be taxed for everything, then write your congressperson and complain about all the nickel and dime taxes the government passed and never revoked.
Yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on that, just as soon as they get a break from all the hard work they put in raising taxes and their own pay.

JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL

Re: Write your congresscritter

Yeah, right after the repeal the income tax... which was supposed to be a temporary measure, too, remember.

packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:
"Write your congresscritter"

OMG aint that the truth.
--
Who do you want to pay off today?
mykey2k

join:2001-11-19
Aurora, IL

I did write my Senators. I'll include their responses here because it shows their stances...

said by IL Senator Durbin :

Thank you for contacting me about repealing the federal telephone excise
tax. I appreciate hearing from you.

The telephone tax, which was originally imposed to cover short-term
revenue needs, first appeared as a temporary tax to finance the
Spanish-American war. Telephone taxes have been continuously collected
since the Great Depression. The tax is assessed at a rate of three
percent on local and long-distance telephone services.

I have voted to repeal the telephone tax. However, such legislation has
not been passed by the full Senate. A repeal of this tax will ultimately
reduce the telephone bills of Illinoisans and reduce the cost of access to
the Internet. I will be sure to keep your views on this matter in mind in
case Congress debates changes to the tax code this year.

Thank you once again for contacting me. Please feel free to stay in
touch.

Sincerely,

Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator




said by IL Senator Obama :

Thank you for contacting me regarding the excise tax on long-distance
telephone service. You raise some important concerns, and I am glad you
wrote.

This tax, first imposed in 1898 because of the revenue needs of a military
conflict, is levied at a 3 percent rate and is a permanent part of our
revenue structure. For years the tax was set at 10 percent, but the Excise
Tax Reduction Act of 1965 reduce the tax to 3 percent, and provided for its
eventual elimination. However, the revenue requirements of the Vietnam War
prompted Congress to extend the tax. It has remained between 2 percent and
10 percent since that time.

There has been renewed interest in the telephone excise tax during the
current 109th Congress. New marketing practices and technologies have
blurred the line between which telecommunications activities are taxable
and which are not. For instance, in the case of VOIP (voice over internet
protocol) voice transmissions are sent in the form of packets of
information and are indistinguishable from text messages or e-mails which
are tax-exempt. Further, companies now offer "bundles" of service which
can include communication services which are subject to the excise tax and
other services (such as cable television, high speed internet access, and
text messaging) not subject to tax. These factors have caused consumers
and businesses to scrutinize the telephone service excise tax, and have led
to calls to repeal the tax.

Revenue from this excise tax goes directly into our government???s General
Revenues, which is used to fund an expansive range of federal services.
The case that continued imposition of the excise tax on long-distance
telephone service can no longer be justified is strong. However, with the
cost of the ongoing conflict in Iraq and predictions that the Federal price
tag of Hurricane Katrina could be as much as $200 billion, it may, as a
practical matter, be difficult to eliminate current sources of revenue at
this time.

I am not on the Senate Finance Committee which is considering this issue.
However, your views deserve a place in this debate, and I will keep them in
mind as the discussions on this matter continue. If strategies arise that
allow the government to reduce or eliminate the telephone service excise
tax without sacrificing services to those who need them most, I will
certainly keep your letter in mind.

Again, thank you for contacting me. I appreciate your comments, and I hope
you will share your views with me again in the future.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
United States Senator
-m

old wolf

@60.50.x.x

Re: Write your congresscritter

Good job!

Any others?

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online

Re: Once a tax...

Frankly I do not see the cellphone companies giving this up. If the IRS tells them to stop collecting the tax I am sure we will see the "cost recovery fees" or "other charges" go up by the exact same amount. Get used to paying it one way or another.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home

Re: Once a tax...

Then why would the cellphone companies not give up collecting it if the IRS says to stop?

The cellphone companies aren't keeping the tax they collect.

Did you think they were profiting from it?

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online

Re: Once a tax...

said by smcallah See Profile :

Then why would the cellphone companies not give up collecting it if the IRS says to stop?

The cellphone companies aren't keeping the tax they collect.

Did you think they were profiting from it?
No I do not think they are keeping it or profiting from it. However, since customers are used to paying it already, it would not be a stretch for the cell phone companies to simply keep collecting an amount of money equivalent to the tax but pocket it instead.

Several years ago, the state of Connecticut cut its gas tax. For some strange reason (hah) in the days after the tax was lowered, the gas prices did not drop by the same amount per gallon. Turns out the gas stations kept the money as extra profit. How many people would really know that the price was supposed to drop?
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home

Re: Once a tax...

With gas, the tax is not listed as a separate line item in the price. So no one notices the tax is there.

On a cell phone bill, the taxes are all separate line items.

So in order for a cell phone company to keep collecting a tax that has been repealed, they would have to raise their rates, and not have a separate line item that said it was a tax, since it is not a tax.

So instead of a cell phone company saying you can buy their 1000 minute night and weekend plan for $39.99, they'd say it is now $42.73 on their ads? I don't think so.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online

Re: Once a tax...

said by smcallah See Profile :

So instead of a cell phone company saying you can buy their 1000 minute night and weekend plan for $39.99, they'd say it is now $42.73 on their ads? I don't think so.
Of course not. It will still be $39.99* as it advertised now with the "*" covering all the additional charges as it does now.

If I were the cell company, I would simply add the new increase to "regulatory compliance fee" line item.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA

Spanish American War
$5 Billion

Iraq war to cost US $2 Trillion.

American Civil War
$62 Billion
Spanish American War
$5 Billion
World War One
$290 Billion
World War Two
$2,300 Billion
Korean Conflict
$111 Billion
Vietnam
$165 Billion
--
Type "miserable failure" in Google
Cyron

join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC

Re: Once a tax...

Are those figures adjusted for inflation?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Once a tax...

said by Cyron See Profile :

Are those figures adjusted for inflation?
Are those figures accurate? $2 Trillion is a lot of money... close to how much the Federal government spends on everything it does in a single year. To say that the Iraq war is going to cost that much is a bit premature.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: Once a tax...

It's not lies:

»www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html

quote:
A new study by Columbia University economist Joseph E. Stiglitz, who won the Nobel Prize in economics in 2001, and Harvard lecturer Linda Bilmes concludes that the total costs of the Iraq war could top the $2 trillion mark. Reuters reports this total, which is far above the US administration's prewar projections, takes into account the long term healthcare costs for the 16,000 US soldiers injured in Iraq so far.
The numbers are correct, but it isn't fair to compare it to other war totals, since those other totals don't take into account healthcare...if they did, I can only imagine how much WW2 would have cost.

That said, two trillion is still a lot of potatoes.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Once a tax...

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

It's not lies:

»www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html
The report is still based on a few key assumptions (e.g. that our troops would remain till 2010 and such). These assumptions are not guaranteed to be true. Furthermore, the article points out that Dr. Stiglitz is a vocal critic of the war in Iraq, so we cannot be sure that his analysis is completely unbiased. I'm not rejecting what the fellow writes simply because of this, but just as it would be hard for many opposed to the President to believe the President when he says we are making progress, its hard for most people to believe those who vocally oppose the President to believe research that magically appears to advance their own agendas.

I'd like to see if Dr. Stiglitz did any research into the costs of the Kosovo, Bosnia or Somalia conflicts. Heck, as we're still in Kosovo and Bosnia with no end in sight, it would probably stand to say that these conflicts will eventually cost us more than a "temporary" stay in Iraq.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Re: Once a tax...

I'm not planning on deconstructing the work of nobel prize winning economists with my liberal arts degree, I was just providing the source. One can deconstruct the very best work of the very best minds if motivated...

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Once a tax...

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

I'm not planning on deconstructing the work of nobel prize winning economists with my liberal arts degree
LOL if I could do successfully pop that nobel prize-winning analysis, I am sure you can as well.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!

mikef1
Mike

join:2004-10-28
Littlestown, PA


1 edit
said by pnh102 See Profile :

It's not lies:

»www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html
The report is still based on a few key assumptions (e.g. that our troops would remain till 2010 and such). These ssumptions are not guaranteed to be true.
Very correct, it is extremely hard to know what will be going on anywhere 4 years from now.
And for the guy quoting the costs of all the previous wars you are forgetting a few things.
We are STILL in Germany and I think still in Japan, that might have changed recently. The cost associated with keeping a presents there needs to be add to the WW2 cost.
Same goes for the Korea, a war that has NOT ended. How much more added to that $111 Billion does it cost the US to have kept the troops there for the past 53 years?
--
mike

HouseOfMike

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Once a tax...

said by mikef1 See Profile :

We are STILL in Germany and I think still in Japan, that might have changed recently.
We still have a base in Okinawa.

As for Germany, that reminded me of a monologue Jimmy Kimmel delivered to our troops at the Wiesbaden AFB: Why are we still here? Didn't we beat these guys?
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

It's not lies:

»www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html
The report is still based on a few key assumptions (e.g. that our troops would remain till 2010 and such). These assumptions are not guaranteed to be true. Furthermore, the article points out that Dr. Stiglitz is a vocal critic of the war in Iraq, so we cannot be sure that his analysis is completely unbiased. I'm not rejecting what the fellow writes simply because of this, but just as it would be hard for many opposed to the President to believe the President when he says we are making progress, its hard for most people to believe those who vocally oppose the President to believe research that magically appears to advance their own agendas.

I'd like to see if Dr. Stiglitz did any research into the costs of the Kosovo, Bosnia or Somalia conflicts. Heck, as we're still in Kosovo and Bosnia with no end in sight, it would probably stand to say that these conflicts will eventually cost us more than a "temporary" stay in Iraq.
Are you really this clueless? US never had any kind of large-scale operation neither in Kosovo nor Bosnia.

Stop this pathetic wishy-washy talk to downplay the Iraqi War, based on lies and its tragic outcome and astronomical costs.

FYI: exactly Rumsfeld is one of the war criminals. I know it'll take some time but he won't escape - he will be tried and sentenced, mark my word.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Once a tax...

said by kamm See Profile :

Are you really this clueless? US never had any kind of large-scale operation neither in Kosovo nor Bosnia.
Um... what planet are you on? Were you really born yesterday? Because that would be the only explanation of why you could make such a stupid statement. The US has been involved in large scale operations in the Former Yugoslavia since at least 1995. It is our continued troop deployment in this region which helps to keep the peace.

There's this website, its called Google, and unless you're using Bell South as an ISP, I suggest you go and search for this conflict, and learn a little more about it.

Are we still at war with Eurasia too?
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!
rgillis70
Premium
join:2002-12-30
Herndon, VA

Though the estimates have went up - the overall cost is still small by comparison to total GDP.

»news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4201812.stm

"the relative cost of operations in Iraq, at 2% of America's annual GDP, was less than either the Vietnam conflict at 12% or World War II at 40%.

"Although the costs of war have grown... the American economy is exponentially larger than it was in the Vietnam War years," Mr Donnelly said.

"When it [the Iraq war] is compared to the overall size of the American economy, it's really a drop in the bucket, certainly by historical standards."
rgillis70
Premium
join:2002-12-30
Herndon, VA

Nope not adjusted.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

"It is estimated to have cost about 1 trillion US dollars in 1945 (adjusted for inflation; roughly 10.5 trillion in 2005, not including subsequent reconstruction."

Considering current costs include reconstruction it becomes very hard to compare.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Once a tax...

said by rgillis70 See Profile :

Considering current costs include reconstruction it becomes very hard to compare.
It would only be fair then to add the inflation-adjusted costs of post WW2 programs like the Marshall Plan and other significant defense spending needed to keep the Soviets in check till the end of the Cold War as well.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!
rgillis70
Premium
join:2002-12-30
Herndon, VA

Re: Once a tax...

Absolutely.

As I showed in the comparison quote - I think a better view is the percentage of GDP - which shows how cheap (comparatively) that the Iraq war has been.

I am not saying anything good or bad about the war itself, just that the 2% of GDP for Iraq is not very big compared to 12% for Vietnam or 40% for WW2.

People really need to look at the overall cost involved here, remember this article from Newsweek a couple years back:

"Washington announced that it would increase its defense budget by almost $50 billion, a sum greater than the total annual defense budget of Britain or Germany. ...the United States will spend as much next year on defense as the rest of the world put together (yes, all 191 countries). And it will do so devoting 4 percent of its GDP, a low level by postwar standards."

TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL

I typed that in and the Michael Moore website came up and filled past the edges of my screen with his loser achievement and twinkie eating face.

Then my PC melted.
--
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus

Re: Once a tax...

Something must be wrong with your PC since the GWB Bio should have popped up if you had used the "I'm feeling lucky" function. MM is ranked second for that search after GWB.

footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

Re: Once a tax...

said by bmn See Profile :

Something must be wrong with your PC since the GWB Bio should have popped up if you had used the "I'm feeling lucky" function. MM is ranked second for that search after GWB.
There is an ongoing effort between political groups to recruit websites that will use that 'miserable failure' phrase in such a way as to affect google's rankings. It wouldn't surprise me to see the leader changing once in awhile.

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online

said by BIGMIKE See Profile :

Spanish American War
$5 Billion

Iraq war to cost US $2 Trillion.

American Civil War
$62 Billion
Spanish American War
$5 Billion
World War One
$290 Billion
World War Two
$2,300 Billion
Korean Conflict
$111 Billion
Vietnam
$165 Billion
Show a source. Those are complete lies and NOBODY should accept it as fact unless there is proof which I seriously doubt. Two trillion dollars is around what the ENTIRE budget is. The Iraq war is only a TINY fraction of the national budget. Yes, it's a lot of wasted money (IMHO), but it is NO WHERE near two trillion dollars. And the cost of maintaining our military should not be included (even though it is no where near two trillion) since a military is required and it will ALWAYS be required, even if there was an extreme liberal in office. Being the most successful nation in the world is not easy. It takes defense.

-Tzale

TheToro
Premium
join:2003-06-05
London, UK
it's for me lol
Forums » Still Paying for the Spanish American War


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