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kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Lancaster, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| reply to koitsu
Re: Translation
I've wondered about this myself. Why should it cost any more to send data then to receive it? And why can't residential users be offered symetrical connectivity? Right now I have 7 mbits downstream and 900Kbits upstream. I pay $59.95 for this connection. I looked in to getting SDSL here via a local ISP and checked in to the cost of 1.5mbit symetrical SDSL, and as I recall it was something like $350 a month or something high like that. So for nearly 10 times the price I'm paying now, I could increase my upstream by roughly 600 kilobits or so which doesn't seem like a hell of alot since for 10 times the price I currently pay for 7 megabits downstream, I'd be cutting my downstream to nearly 5 times what it is now! And let's not forget the few areas that have up to 2mbits upstream. That's more than a T1, yet I bet if you ordered a T1 at those same locations, it'd still be $400 a month or more. Let's face it, whether we use our connection for basic web browsing, or we use our connection for high quality audio or video streaming or even p2p traffic, there are users that want to have upstream bandwidth and make use of it. So why not realize the internet isn't just a receive only medium and give those that want it more upload, and allow them to make use of it! Maybe in order to get more bandwidth, particularly in the upstream direction, we should go to a metered solution like many server data centers do, where you can use up to so much data for a set price then it'd be so much more per gigabyte over? And how do we get T1's and other types of symetrical conections to drop in price? | |
HMS1
join:2006-01-14
Austin, TX
| All your points are reasonable. If it were just a matter of policies or business decisions on the part of the ISPs you would be right on target.
There are other factors to be taken into consideration tho:
• There are technical reasons that cable, in current form, can't handle upstream nearly as well as downstream. I don't recall the explanation (maybe someone will fill in this part), but it has to do with it being designed years ago when it was all about delivering TV with little need for up.
•It's way expensive to improve the "last mile" infrastructure. In the long run, hopefully we'll have fiber and big, symmetrical bandwidth. But it takes investment by either the providers or government. The providers need a good ROI to do it, and we don't have a political climate for government to do it. And either way it takes time.
•Competition theoretically would improve things, but in most cities there is a cable monopoly (maybe even legally forced) and a telco oligopoly at best. Also this factor is in tension with the "last mile problem" - practically speaking, only one entity can own each connection from the individual residences or businesses to the central office (or whatever it's called).
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by HMS1  :All your points are reasonable. If it were just a matter of policies or business decisions on the part of the ISPs you would be right on target. There are other factors to be taken into consideration tho:
• There are technical reasons that cable, in current form, can't handle upstream nearly as well as downstream. I don't recall the explanation (maybe someone will fill in this part), but it has to do with it being designed years ago when it was all about delivering TV with little need for up.
•It's way expensive to improve the "last mile" infrastructure. In the long run, hopefully we'll have fiber and big, symmetrical bandwidth. But it takes investment by either the providers or government. The providers need a good ROI to do it, and we don't have a political climate for government to do it. And either way it takes time.
•Competition theoretically would improve things, but in most cities there is a cable monopoly (maybe even legally forced) and a telco oligopoly at best. Also this factor is in tension with the "last mile problem" - practically speaking, only one entity can own each connection from the individual residences or businesses to the central office (or whatever it's called).
Consumer connections are mostly asymmetrical in nature. So uploading in general usually takes the beating.
It costs more to send traffic then to receive because of the peering agreements made by isp's to tier 1's and some tier 2's.
If I told you give me 10 k a month and id carry 100 mbit both ways to another peer you would say hell no thats to high my customers don't use that. I say ok then we will give you 45 mbit for 5 k.
Now downloading is mostly used and is burst type traffic. Meaning it is not sustained , it is only sustained by the server sending the content. So more can be downloaded without worries of sustaining. And to be clear downloading does include web surfing.
Uploads are more sustained. Usually since the servers are sending out to more then 1 downloader at a time. It's all relative. And since the transport is all bunched together your server may be on your backbone and helping saturate the upload you want so bad.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
mwa423
@wideopenwest.com
| reply to kd6cae
quote:
I've wondered about this myself. Why should it cost any more to send data then to receive it? And why can't residential users be offered symetrical connectivity?
Because then there's no incentive for hella expensive commercial connections. You can run a relatively decent web server on 1.5 mbit, or most other servers now that I think about it (except your "super elite top ftp site")
Also, if you look at commercial connections/t1/etc. they have guarenteed bandwidth. The bandwidth you get on your 7 mbit connection might be 4 mbit during peak times, might by 7 off peak, and that's in the agreement. For business customers, they had better get their full bandwidth, otherwise according to the SLA, then the telco will probably be opening their wallet.
Also, is it painfully clear to everybody else that higher capacities basically mean you can download/upload illegal things more quickly? | |
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