ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
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join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
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| reply to Bloominite
Re: A So Cal place name primer
Excellent find there...You know how many of those people are related to me...Hamilton, Smith. It is quite an interesting period in our history, and rivals with the Indian wars as also the most tragic era of the US.
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Bloominite
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| reply to CurtesyFlush
said by CurtesyFlush  :I don't know. My dad was all over that area as he was the manager of the Security Title and Insurance Co office in SLO. I recall Pea Soup Anderson coming by the house for supper a number of times, toting a few cases of pea soup each time. Also Karl Birkholm, the owner of Birkholm Bakery in Solvang, and the producer of those famous Danish cookies. We used to spend weekends at his ranch. He'd always bring tubs of those cookies for us, man no wonder I'm a sweetaholic nowadays. We maintained dual residences in SLO and Capistrano. I'd go to school part time up there, then another part of the year down here. No shit, your dad worked for Security Title? My stepdad worked for Security Title in their San Bernardino office when he and my mom got married, then quit to go into business for himself in early 1962 just before we moved to Shell beach and then Santa Maria. His brother was an attorney with offices in Santa Maria and SLO and they were partners in lots of real estate investments all over Santa Barbara and SLO counties. His brother's practice dealt mainly with real estate so there's a good chance he and/or my stepdad knew your dad.
I remember Birkholm's well and used to make pastry runs from Bloomington to Solvang several times a year when they still ran the bakery. Did you ever make it to the candy shop in SLO's Chinatown where they made the roadapple candy?
You know what was my favorite place in that area back then? The Suey Ranch. That place was amazing and huge. It was owned by the Newhall Land and Farming Co and my stepdad was some kind of descendant of Henry Newhall. His mom made some calls and arranged for him to have access to most of the 40,000 acres of the ranch that straddled the 166. It was pretty cool, we'd stop by the ranch house and get a pass that allowed us to roam all over some of the most beautiful unspoiled coastal mountain land in the entire state. I'd give anything to be able to explore that ranch now. The last time I was on the ranch was the summer of '69, just before I moved back down here. There had been lots of rain that year that filled up the Twitchell Resevoir and made the ranch prettier than I'd ever seen it before or since. |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
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Fontana, CA
1 edit | Yes he was. The office was on Chorro near Higuera, or on Higuera near Chorro. Before that he managed the BofA branch at Melrose and Irving in Hollywood, and the branch at Crenshaw and Stocker near Inglewood.
I remember that candy store well. I sure do like SLO. But, I like my high desert better.
EDIT: Is the Suey Ranch still in operation?
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Bloominite
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| reply to ghostpainter
said by ghostpainter :Excellent find there...You know how many of those people are related to me...Hamilton, Smith. It is quite an interesting period in our history, and rivals with the Indian wars as also the most tragic era of the US. I've always been fascinated by the relationship between the Mormons and the early days of California. The Mormons were involved in most of the early milestones leading up to and following the admission of California. The 2 guys who discovered gold at Sutter's Mill were Mormons, the first crossing from Yuma to San Diego was a Mormon batallion rushing to aid John Fremont when it looked like he was going to war with Mexico. They were everywhere it seems.
The Mormons had a unique relationship with the Indians. They believed the Red Man had been sent by God to North America to wait for them and then be their helpers in achieving whatever it was they were destined to do when the time arrived. It was their belief the Indians were almost human and in God's grace, but not quite human enough to be worthy of full responsibilty for their actions or God's full blessing. If I understand it correctly, this prevented them from entering either the Celestial Kingdom (the highest level of Mormon Heaven) or Hell when they died. I think I got that part right, the Mormon concept of Heaven and Hell is a little more complicated than the Baptist version I grew up with.
The Indian allies of the Mormons were able to perform the dirty deeds for the Mormons that would condemn a Mormon to Hell (or at leat one of the lesser levels of Heaven). It sounds bad to us now, but it was actually a more enlightend feeling toward the Indians than was prevalent among most whites at the time.
The Mountain Meadows Massacre was an excellent example of the Mormon/Indian relationship. After the Mormons had tricked the emigrants into turning over their weapons in exchange for safe passage through Utah, the Mormons slaughterd all of the men in the party and the Indians killed all of the women and children old enough to bear witness against the Mormons. A:though the estimates vary, the total number of dead is believed to be between 120 and 140 people of all ages except for the very young infants spared by the Mormons. The Mormons believed it was OK to kill the men, but their souls would be in jeopardy if they were to kill the women and children. It was for just this type of duty that God had given them their almost-human red man helpers as they weren't responsible in the afterlife for their actions on Earth in service of the Mormons.
I hope I got the religious beliefs correct and certainly don't mean to offend any Mormons, but I'm working solely off memories of what was related to me by Mormon friends years ago. Any corrections would be welcome.
As for the massacre itself: It sounds barbaric by itself, but the Mormons had endured great persecution and were justified in fearing a takeover by Gentiles of the land they had settled in Utah. Their actions that day were based on real fears. |
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coxta
Ultramundane
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LALALALALALA | reply to CurtesyFlush
Re: A So Cal place name primer
Yep, The Fancher Party Massacre, my relatives.
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Valkyre
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Valhalla
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2 edits | reply to Bloominite
Excerpts about the Mountain Meadows Massacre" from Jon Krakauers book "Under the Banner of Heaven - A Story of Violent Faith:
"Our party was just sitting down to a breakfast of quail and cottontail rabbits when a shot rang out from a nearby gully," Sarah Frances Baker Mitchell recalled eighty two years after the event, "and one of the children toppled over, hit by the bullet." That first gunshot was the beginning of a furious surprise assault that would fatally wound seven Arkansans before the day was out. Although Mitchell was only three years old at the time, the horrors of that morning-and the even greater horrors of the weeks to come-were seared into her memory.
The emigrants quickly encircled their wagons into a defensive corral, dug in as best they could, and returned fire, repelling the first wave of assailants. They assumed they were being ambushed by Indians, a conjecture that seemed to be confirmed by glimpses of dark-skinned men in war paint shooting at the. As is happened, most of the attackers on that initial morning of what would become a five-day siege were indeed Paiutes, but others were Mormons from nearby settlements who had simply painted their faces to look like Indians. And commanding the assault was a well-known Latter Day Saint: forty-four-year-old John D. Lee, a battle tested veteran of the troubles in Missouri and Illinois, as devoted to the church and its leaders as any Mormon alive.
The Arkansas emigrants, it seems, were marked as victims from the moment they entered Utah. One of them later claimed that as soon as the arrived in Great Salt Lake City, it was obvious to him that the Saints were looking for "an excuse to slaughter the entire train." One reason the Fancher party may have been singled out was the Arkansans' conspicuous wealth: it was reputed to be "the richest and best equipped train that ever set out across the continent." Among the groups twelve hundred head of stock were prize Texas longhorn and a strikingly beautiful Thoroughbred racehorse that was alone worth $3,000 in the currency of the day. Additionally, it was rumored that the Fancher party was carrying a strongbox filled with thousands of dollars in gold coins. In Utah, where plagues of crickets and an extended drought had left many Saints contemplating starvation, such riches could not have failed to arouse the interest of people who considered it righteous to steal from the godless.
The notorious conference between Brigham Young and the Paiute chiefs took place in Great Salt Lake City on the evening of September 1. It lasted for about an hour, with Brigham's son-in-law Dimick B. Huntington acting as interpreter. According to Huntington's notes of the encounter, Brigham explicitly "gave" the Indians all the emigrant cattle on the Old Spanish Trail-that is, the Fancher's prize herd, which the Paiutes had covetously gazed upon when they camped next to the emigrants one week earlier. The prophet's message to the Indian leaders was clear enough: he wanted them to attack the Fancher wagon train. The morning after the meeting, the Paiutes left the City of the Saints at first light and started riding hard for southern Utah.
According to John D. Lee, on or around the day the Arkansans arrived in Cedar City, he received orders to attack the emigrants from Lieutenant Colonel Isaac Haight, the mayor of Cedar City, president of the LDS Stake, and commander of the local battalion of the Nauvoo Legion. Lee was told to gather Indian chiefs who had met with Brigham three days earlier, arm their warriors, and lead them in an ambush on the Fancher train in the mountains south of Cedar City;Lee reported that Haight had emphasized that this directive was "the will of all in authority."
On September 5, Lee headed for the Mountain Meadow with a large contingent of Saints and Paiutes. They arrived in the hills above the meadow on September 6, where they hid among the stunted trees and watched the Arkansans make camp near the spring below, and the Saints painted their faces so they would look like Indians. The next morning before dawn, while the emigrants were sleeping, these painted Mormons and the genuine Paiutes stole toward the Fancher camps and took cover behind rocks and brush. As the sun crept over the serrated, ten thousand-foot crest of the Pine Valley Mountains, the unsuspecting Arkansans gathered to cook breakfast. Lee's snipers carefully aimed their muskets to inflict maximum casualties, then fired.
Lee had assumed the Arkansans would quickly succumb to the surprise assault. The Saints had been so confident of a quick victory, in fact, that they had promised, in Lee's words, that the Paiutes "could kill the emigrants without danger to themselves." But the Fancher party was disciplined, very brave, and well armed, and their ranks included many expert riflemen. After the initial volley of gunfire, the Arkansans quickly circled their wagons, dug into bunkers, and then immediately initiated a counter assault, utterly confounding their attackers.
At least one Paiute brave was killed that morning, two Paiute chiefs were mortally wounded, and the Indian and Mormon forces were decisively repulsed, dealing a completely unanticipated blow to their resolve. As they regrouped at a safe distance, the Indians expressed their displeasure with the bungled operation in no uncertain terms: they threatened angrily to go home and leave the Mormons to their own devices. "Now we knew that the Indians could not do the work," Lee was forced to acknowledge after their surprise attack failed, "and we were in a sad fix." After ordering his men to keep the emigrants pinned down, Lee rode off to summon Mormon reinforcements, and to seek the counsel of his superiors.
There is much, much more. I could type it up and post it here. I have to get to work though. It's a fascinating story. And, it wasn't just the Paiutes who killed the children.
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Bloominite
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1 edit | reply to CurtesyFlush
said by CurtesyFlush :I remember that candy store well. I sure do like SLO. But, I like my high desert better. EDIT: Is the Suey Ranch still in operation? The last I heard, it was being sold a few years ago. I don't know if the sale was completed, but I do know they are beginning to develop the extreme southwestern edge that is below the dam and along the Santa Maria River. There was a move afoot to have SLO county relinquish their claim to the area so that SB county could annex it and provide services. SLO just refused that move a few weeks ago.
EDIT: Here's a .pdf with info on the annexation proposal:
»www.co.slo.ca.us/Board_of_Superv···/c-1.pdf
And according to this .pdf, it looks like Newhall sold the entire ranch to a Heber D. Perrett back in 2000. I'd like to have Heber Perrett's cash. Anyone who could buy that ranch is definitely rolling in it (or at least able to put together some pretty impressive financing). |
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Bloominite
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| reply to CurtesyFlush
said by CurtesyFlush :Please feel free to add what you know. Fontana = Fountain in Italian Fontana was originally christened Rosena when the townsite was laid out in 1887. That area was in what is now the central downtown area along Sierra Av. The area that is now North Fontana was known as Grapeland and you know that old quarry south of you? That anchored Declezville in what is now the Southridge development. The town was renamed Fontana by A.B Miller when he decided to develop much of the town.
Bloomington was supposedly named after the berry blossoms from the berries that were the main crop in town prior to citrus. |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
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Fontana, CA
1 edit | reply to CurtesyFlush
Who remembers when KFI used to station ID with: "This is KFI Los Angeles, an Earl C. Anthony Incorporated station"? Unfortunatly, I do.
Who knows what the FI in KFI stands for?
Who used to read the morning farm report every morning at 0500?
Ain't that a pretty art-deco building?
What is station KECA known as today?
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
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Yorba Linda, CA | KFI = K + Farmer's Information
KECA is now KABC, after the NBC Blue network became ABC
Steve -- radio buff |
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Bloominite
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1 edit | reply to CurtesyFlush
said by CurtesyFlush :Who remembers when KFI used to station ID with: "This is KFI Los Angeles, an Earl C. Anthony Incorporated station"? Unfortunatly, I do. Did you see this article about Earle Anthony's Packard Dealership in L.A.?:
»www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me···lifornia |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
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Fontana, CA | Great article. I'm glad they're not razing the old building.
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tannman
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Oxnard, CA
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Oxnard:Named after Sugar Beet Farmer Brothers
(figures dont it) |
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Bloominite
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| said by tannman :Oxnard:Named after Sugar Beet Farmer Brothers (figures dont it) The town of Betteravia, near Santa Maria, also got it's name from the beet industry. Betterave is the French name for the sugat beet. |
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PhiloVance
join:2001-11-20
Bakersfield, CA
| Hey, my uncle used to live in Betteravia. God it stunk there. Whew. Never knew sugar could smell so awful. It's somewhere over near Santa Maria.
Does anyone remember when Sun Valley used to be named Roscoe. I was born in San Fernando and lived there until I was 11 (1949)...yes I am that old. 
At the time of the name change my mother said it was a good thing. Roscoe was a wierd name anyway. Of course there is still Roscoe Blvd. It was probably some early settler's name. At the time I didn't think much about it, but I actually think Roscoe was the better name, historically speaking. Sun Valley to me is in Idaho. 
I now live in Bakersfield, named after Colonel Thomas Baker, an early settler in the area. It's the county seat of Kern County which was named after Edward Kern, a topographer with one of the John Fremont expeditions.
In my younger years I lived in many places in Southern and Central California including: Pasadena, Costa Mesa (Newport Beach), Santa Ana, Anaheim, Buena Park, Santa Monica, Porterville and Tulare(in Tulare County), Hanford (in Kings County), and Delano (here in Kern).
Here's an interesting link on some historical events in my neck of the woods, the San Joaquin Valley: »kingsnet.kings.k12.ca.us/kcoe/cu···ine.html
I see Kern County was formed from parts of Los Angeles and Tulare counties.
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CurtesyFlush
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Fontana, CA
| said by PhiloVance : I was born in San Fernando and lived there until I was 11 (1949)...yes I am that old. Stick around, it'll take the heat off of me.....
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TwoFrogs
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Hell Main Fl
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| said by CurtesyFlush :said by PhiloVance : I was born in San Fernando and lived there until I was 11 (1949)...yes I am that old. Stick around, it'll take the heat off of me..... You're older than that in curmudgeon years, Jack. 
To get this post back on-topic, Jack undoubtedly knows that Lake Arrowhead is named after the natural "arrowhead" visible on the side of the San Bernardino Mountains somewhat below the lake area. Over the years it has become somewhat less discernible, due to erosion and vegetation, but on a clear day I can still see it, even from where I work in Riverside.
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Anon1980
@HITCHCOCK.ORG | reply to Bloominite
I know Heber D. Perrett too well, and you would not want his money if you knew how he got it! |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
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Fontana, CA
| reply to CurtesyFlush
Legend has it that Lake Elsinore came by its name by way of a little problem in translation and the unpronounced "H" in Spanish.
Back in the day an early white settler to the area encountered
a Mexican fishing in the lake. He asked him how the water tasted. The Mexican answered "Like hell, senor".
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