JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL | reply to kamm
Is it rehash Thursday ?
I guess MIT,Harvard,Yale,Northwestern etc... are all runing on dialup. Wake me up when Japan or S. Korea have a greater GDP than USA . |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
1 edit | said by JSRoman  :I guess MIT,Harvard,Yale,Northwestern etc... are all runing on dialup. Which has nothing to do with the original post. Thank you for your contriubution.
Wake me up when Japan or S. Korea have a greater GDP than USA .
Ummm what GDP has to do with taking the technological edge?
Wake me up when you've posted something meaningful... |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by kamm :Ummm what GDP has to do with taking the technological edge? The point is that broadband availability and technological availability are unrelated to GDP.
»www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.html
The per capita GDP of the USA(#4) is far above that of Japan(#22) and South Korea(#51). Japan and SK both have had better broadband options (and a more direct availability of things "higher tech") than the USA for awhile, but this has not resulted in either country overtaking the USA in per capita GDP.
»www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.html
The total GDP of the USA is also greater than... well... everyone 
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
1 edit | reply to kamm
Article states that lack of universal broadband will basically hurt financially. I have no idea how old you are but I've been hearing that Asians countries are going to eat us up for the last 20 years. Hasn't happened. Yea mega speeds at low price would be nice but it is not the end of the world if everyone in the US doesn't have the option of getting cheap, ultra broadband service. The reason I stated some Universities is because that is where a lot of breakthroughs happen and most of these schools are running on the so called Internet 2 with super dooper speeds. Hope that helps.
edited for spelling |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to pnh102
The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. |
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joshpo
join:2002-09-24
Philadelphia, PA
| reply to JSRoman
I think you are missing the point of the article. The author argues that broadband is a utility because more and more services will be delivered over broadband connections in coming years. This isn't about having the fastest connection so you won't lag in CS. In other words its not about having superior connections to Japan etc, its the fact that there are many people in the US who have no access to broadband at all. (And no, Direcway is NOT broadband!) |
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noone1
join:2004-06-04
Nashua, NH
1 edit | reply to bmn
said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything?
Then compare this to the next generation communications that are rolling out right now and their impact on "last mile" penetration. (EVDO, 1/2/3xRTT, Fios)
Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries.
I await your response.
Edit: Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same thing. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by noone1 :said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything? Then compare this to the next generation communications that are rolling out right now and their impact on "last mile" penetration. (EVDO, 1/2/3xRTT, Fios) Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries. I await your response. 1. There are no studies on this topic yet... The last mile network problem hasn't become a major issue yet.
2. READ what I posted... "America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer..." That's not a statement that says it WILL suffer, but that our anemic last mile networks may affect the next generation of services and tools that haven't come out. Strange factors have affected the economic progress of nations in the past before.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by kamm :Ummm what GDP has to do with taking the technological edge? The point is that broadband availability and technological availability are unrelated to GDP. » www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.htmlThe per capita GDP of the USA(#4) is far above that of Japan(#22) and South Korea(#51). Japan and SK both have had better broadband options (and a more direct availability of things "higher tech") than the USA for awhile, but this has not resulted in either country overtaking the USA in per capita GDP. » www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.htmlThe total GDP of the USA is also greater than... well... everyone Which still has nothing to do with the more advanced technological standpoint. yes.
OTOH you can have better GDP yet piss-poor people with not enough job etc etc. GDP proves nothing here, FYI. |
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noone1
join:2004-06-04
Nashua, NH
1 edit | reply to bmn
said by bmn :said by noone1 :1. There are no studies on this topic yet... The last mile network problem hasn't become a major issue yet. 2. READ what I posted... "America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer..." That's not a statement that says it WILL suffer, but that our anemic last mile networks may affect the next generation of services and tools that haven't come out. Strange factors have affected the economic progress of nations in the past before. If there are no studies even to provide a basis of informed decision then how can you even make the claim that it "may very well suffer"? No one knows, arguments bases on pure conjecture hold no water beyond the proffering of a concept. While this does have limited validity within the concept of discussion, it credibility dies at the first mention of "show me". Again, I apologize for singling you out within this thread but it goes to prove a point, all the ranting (loosely used term) in the world is useless if the problem does not exist. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by noone1 :If there are no studies even to provide a basis of informed decision then how can you even make the claim that it "may very well suffer"? Well, if one watches the technology that's in the works, like IPTV, home automation, etc and realizes that those technologies, in combinations with the emergence of VoIP and IPTV, are going to need some hefty connections, one can see how the last mile network's condition may affect the marketability of those technologies down the line. If it doesn't work, people aren't ging to buy it until it does.
No one knows, arguments bases on pure conjecture hold no water beyond the proffering of a concept. While this does have limited validity within the concept of discussion, it credibility dies at the first mention of "show me".
Again, I apologize for singling you out within this thread but it goes to prove a point, all the ranting (loosely used term) in the world is useless if the problem does not exists. While I admit there is some conjecture on my part, its an educated and informed observation... I'm merely taking a look at what the future in technology holds, like outlined above, and being a system/network admin, I'm aware that bandwidth needs are going to starting to grow. You put them together and you have a problem where available bandwidth prevents the development of new services and markets.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. |
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voyager6868
join:2003-01-29
Lynnwood, WA
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to JSRoman
said by JSRoman :I guess MIT,Harvard,Yale,Northwestern etc... are all runing on dialup. Wake me up when Japan or S. Korea have a greater GDP than USA . Ummm. By the time Japan or S. Korea are beating the US in GDP, it'll be way too late to do anything about it. If you don't act before it happens, then you're screwed.
Take a look at China, for example--imagine where they will be in 10 years compared to the US. |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
4 edits | reply to noone1
said by noone1 :said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything? Then compare this to the next generation communications that are rolling out right now and their impact on "last mile" penetration. (EVDO, 1/2/3xRTT, Fios) ROFL, EVDO as somthing advanced thing? LOL... Compare it to Europe: even former Commie countries have similar speeds available for long time - in some you can already order 10-20Mbit ADSL2+ or cable connections, unlike here.
Generally speaking US is clearly behind most of the developed world (ie West EU, Japan, Korea) - if somebody don't see this, he's living in denial. : we have an awkward, anti-competitive monopoly in most of the US markets and that's why we are waaaay behind.
Heck, there's no other country where a corporation would dare to try to openly block muni developments, not to mention no state legislation would block competition by law... and let's not get into the totally rotten and corrupt big business-employee, the FCC's actions...
Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries.
I await your response.
This is probably the most ridiculous excuse and pro-corporate, pro-monopoly guys love to post it.
To shortly rebuke this idiocy, two things:
1. according to 2004 census daTA, over 80% of US population live in metropolitan areas which are the perfect places for en masse broadband deployment
2. look at Canada
I await your response... FYI: I expect you to prove me somehow magically that 80% already have *real* broadband (real = not the artifically inflated, laughable broadband definition of FCC)
Edit: Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same thing.
Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same false crap. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to bmn
said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. The main reason that I don't agree with this assessment is that there are many areas like inner cities, certain poor rural areas and the like which do have high speed Internet access but are still in the same wretched economic state that they were in prior to getting broadband.
Broadband is being sold as some sort of panacea for every little problem out there when it really isn't.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
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wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| said by pnh102 :said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. The main reason that I don't agree with this assessment is that there are many areas like inner cities, certain poor rural areas and the like which do have high speed Internet access but are still in the same wretched economic state that they were in prior to getting broadband. Broadband is being sold as some sort of panacea for every little problem out there when it really isn't. You are correct in that it is not a panacea. There is no "silver bullet" that will magically lift an area from abject poverty to Trumpian wealth overnight.
Having said that, broadband, I think, is fast becoming a precondition (along with transportation, good education, good government), that enables an area to begin to make the transition. A prerequisite, but as you note, not a guarantee of success.
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. |
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Briggs6
join:2004-10-05
Boring, OR
| reply to kamm
said by kamm :OTOH you can have better GDP yet piss-poor people with not enough job etc etc. GDP proves nothing here, FYI. Someone needs to look up what "per capita" means. |
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Briggs6
join:2004-10-05
Boring, OR
1 edit | reply to noone1
said by noone1 :Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries. Even large cities in America don't have Asian/European like speeds available for average consumers. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :The main reason that I don't agree with this assessment is that there are many areas like inner cities, certain poor rural areas and the like which do have high speed Internet access but are still in the same wretched economic state that they were in prior to getting broadband. Well, that's because you are only looking at broadband in relation to their economic state... You examination of how they are related is flawed. Broadband isn't going to lift people out of poverty by itself. So to say that the discoonect between wired areas and their economic state is some sort of proof that broadband doesn't have economic influence is fallacious.
Broadband is being sold as some sort of panacea for every little problem out there when it really isn't. Indeed. But that doesn't change the fact that America's lagging position in the broadband world may very well hurt the economy.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. |
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noone1
join:2004-06-04
Nashua, NH
| reply to kamm
said by kamm :Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same false crap. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything?
Show me how we are falling behind as a result of this and not conjecture. |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | reply to JSRoman
You know DSLR eds day isn't perfect without a good America Sucks news item. |
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